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Under "Post-secondary education", the section on the UK is incorrect and solely refers to one lawyer's opinion. The Equalities and Human Rights Commission disagrees with this assessment. The text currently says: "Under the Equality Act 2010, discrimination based on sex or gender reassignment is illegal, but certain sporting activities are exempt if transgender athletes competing would put non-transgender athletes at an unfair disadvantage. It does not apply to those who consider themselves trans or non-binary, but have not undergone gender reassignment officially.[180]"
The EHRC is a QUANGO which says, "In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex.
"To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you do not need to have undergone any medical treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender.
"You can be at any stage in the transition process, from proposing to reassign your sex, undergoing a process of reassignment, or having completed it. It does not matter whether or not you have applied for or obtained a Gender Recognition Certificate, which is the document that confirms the change of a person's legal sex."
Therefore, the claim that you have to "[undergo] gender reassignment officially" seems to be a misleading interpretation, as: i) there is no "official" way to undergo gender reassignment; ii) even if there were, you don't need to have "undergone" (past tense) the process for the law to apply. You merely need to "propose" to undergo or have begun to undergo such a process.
I think we should remove this link and use the EHRC one instead. Moreover, the current source uses several anti-trans dogwhistles like "natal" instead "cis" and "trans-women" instead of "trans women", suggesting this is a "gender critical" lawyer.
I have again removed an argument that was logically incorrect (it was a straw man). Logically fallacious statements are incorrect, no matter who they are stated by, citation or no citation. Thus I feel that such arguments have no place in a section that is meant to be about the objective effect of testosterone and athletic ability. Furthermore, the following paragraph made the same point that the quote was trying to make, but was objective about it and did not make a straw-man argument in the process. Feel free to undo the revision, but if you do, please link me somewhere that says a statement being incorrect is not grounds for removal. Notsononymous (talk) 14:38, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
The study in the BMJ that is cited is hugely problematic in its conclusion, as it ignored the fact that the trans women it measured were 11 percent faster than the average *men* in their age cohort, and then were 12 percent faster than the average *women* in their age cohort afterwards. They went from 55th percentile among men (age/sex ranked cohort) to 56th percentile (age/sex ranked) among women, showing they ended up in the same percentile of performance after transition, which should ideally be the whole point. Conversely, the trans women lost all sit-up and pull-up advantages, and this did match the female cohort. The conclusion is objectively biased toward finding *some* retained advantage, because a neutral comparison would find all *sex-linked* differences were lost. 216.152.184.30 (talk) 19:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
With only a 5% muscle decrease, men who transition to women do have an advantage a year later. A year is not enough time to preserve the fairness of the sport between the two genders. The study is linked here https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/105/3/e805/5651219 Contrarian13 (talk) 04:00, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
Add the recent controversy with transgender athlete Lia Thomas smashing several women swimming records. https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-from-penn-swims-fastest-times-in-nation-controversy-brewing/ https://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/more-fury-as-transgender-swimmer-keeps-smashing-records/news-story/c42bb72808d9011f99f872f3a2fddceb https://people.com/sports/nfl-suspends-antonio-brown-and-2-others-for-misrepresenting-covid-vaccination-status/ https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-penn_n_61af3421e4b02df7c6ac270b — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:1A3F:C906:6BA0:4845:6BAF:58DC (talk) 19:15, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Re: Lia Thomas, six paragraphs for one person is very WP:Undue. Can we reduce the size of that section?-TenorTwelve (talk) 06:06, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
On a separate thought, I don’t think the link Lia Thomas should redirect here. She is a person, not just a controversy. -TenorTwelve (talk) 06:13, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
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i.e. delete this whole paragraph: ″Joanna Harper is a competitive runner, scientist, transgender woman and medical physicist at the Providence Portland Medical Center who advised the IOC.[45] She argues that the use of estrogen supplements and testosterone blockers (or physical castration via sex reassignment surgery) cause a decrease in muscle mass and oxygen-carrying red blood cells, and that this leads to a decrease in strength, speed, and endurance.[46] According to Harper, every athlete has advantages and disadvantages. The greater height that a transgender woman may have gained before transitioning may be an advantage on the basketball court but it is likely to be disadvantageous to a gymnast.[47]″
Nero Calatrava (talk) 12:42, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
References
((edit extended-protected))
template. It seems her opinion is likely due, as she was an advisor to the IOC. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:50, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
The ref in question is a paper called: "Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage" and I have many problems with it being placed on Wikipedia.
Based on 1 and 2, I would say that there is currently no clear evidence and until then, it is better to, in a proper skeptic fashion, not to write text implying that science seems to conclude that trans-women have an advantage. I think this paper should be removed from the page. 2001:8003:6C22:F601:203B:629D:C0B6:AE1F (talk) 02:04, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
this review is not badly received in its scientific community. So there's no reason to question it. There has actually been more than enough time for it to be challenged if experts had reason to do so, as it was published well over a year ago, but that hasn't happened. (2) Yes, not performing a new experiment and drawing together existing research for new insights is entirely the purpose of any literature review. Unless you've read the papers they've reviewed, you don't know that those didn't also conclude the same things as the review authors did, anyway. It isn't the place of Wikipedia editors to second-guess conclusions in expert sources. And the review discusses things like muscle mass, strength, and skeletal parameters, for which it is proven (not merely a "working hypothesis") that these factors are behind the advantages that cis men have over cis women. (3) We already include their recommendation that each sport federation decide for themselves how to balance different goals in line with the needs of each sport. That's context.
Neutrality assigns weight to viewpoints in proportion to their prominence. However, when reputable sources contradict one another and are relatively equal in prominence, describe both points of view and work for balance.Crossroads -talk- 05:28, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 29 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zach arias 777 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Sydcg.
as a transgender woman looking to get more information on the status of transgender women in sport, this page is an absolute dumpster fire. 35.24.198.12 (talk) 17:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
this is a link to a BBC sports news article published today. An interesting analysis that may be useful for editors here, and it includes a reading list of pertinant articles too. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 03:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
This article does a great job of speaking in neutral point of view, and does so by listing moreso facts than opinions. Each fact is referenced appropiately, and every two to three setences a citation can be seen. I don't believe the article is either underrespresented or overrespresented as it does a great job of including information for an array of countreies. However, it doesn't hurt incorporating the information for many more countries and even individual states as they may have different policies and regulations in place. Looking at the recency of the facts, the most recent piece of information comes takes place in 2021. As we are in 2022, more information can be added in order to avoid being outdated or misinformed. Daniela.rojasg (talk) 23:58, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
The lede starts by explaining that the controversy exists because competitive sports is "a traditionally sex-segregated institution", but then we switch from sex to gender identity and see the terms "cisgender women" and "transgender women" used to explain the "unfair advantage" controversy.
Shouldn't we continue speaking in terms of sex, rather than gender? If someone designated male at birth is transgender, but doesn't identify as a woman, this person is excluded in the wording used for this article. But wouldn't such a person be just as controversial as a transgender woman, due to (as the article describes), "sex differences in human physiology", which has nothing to do with gender identity? Where do MTNB (male-to-non binary) people and FTNB (female-to-non binary) people fit in here? And if we do plan on sticking with the idea that only "transgender women in women's sports" are specifically controversial and are the subject of this article, shouldn't the article be retitled Transgender women in women's sports? — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 02:15, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 July 2022 and 31 August 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emba2024, 21revr (article contribs). Peer reviewers: 21avb8.
— Assignment last updated by 21avb8 (talk) 03:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Hi. I would like to edit this page as part of an MBA program at Queen's university. The page is locked. We propose to add country-specific content for four commonwealth countries: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. Essentially, we want to include the state of the discussion and current approaches in each of these countries. How do I gain edit access? Emba2024 (talk) 02:11, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
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This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it.In other words, we don't really grant access ahead of time; rather, you would type up what you want to add, and then submit it here on this talk page. Crossroads -talk- 05:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
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Our content is saved in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Emba2024/Transgender_people_in_sports. We have specifically stated what should be added to specific locations on the page. Please consider adding it. Emba2024 (talk) 22:21, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
“Opponents argue that transgender women have an unfair advantage over, and may ***endanger***, cisgender women in competitive sports”
Endanger? Wtf 2600:1010:B064:4529:18FA:18E2:2EC2:D24C (talk) 23:58, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
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Please replace the following citations so that they are no longer bare.
Please replace the last citation following "The new guidelines have been described as loosening rules that impede transgender and intersex athlete's participation in Olympic sports, with enforcement of sport-specific rules governing inclusion." with [1]
Please replace citation following "University and Tertiary Sport New Zealand (UTSNZ) has its own inclusion policy covering transgender and gender diverse athletes in sport." with [2]
References
Of course, please modify these citations if it is necessary.
ConstantlyConfused (talk) 18:38, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
The sentence that currently reads "Supporters of transgender athletes argue that medically prescribed puberty blockers and estrogen suppresses testosterone levels and reduces muscle mass of transgender women, reducing possible competitive advantages." should read "Supporters of transgender athletes argue that medically prescribed puberty blockers and estrogen suppress testosterone levels and reduce muscle mass of transgender women, reducing possible competitive advantages." Because 'puberty blockers' and 'estrogen' act together as the grammatical subject of the sentence, the active verbs must be conjugated in the plural. 2601:80:C87C:1060:A998:849:672D:29E1 (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
There’s been a systematic review published in this link (https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/files/content/docs/pdf/transgenderwomenathletesandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final.pdf) by the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sports that calls into question the findings from reference 80.
On page 54 they claim the paper does not review current literature properly, contests their methodology and accuse them of committing errors and omitting data from its references in order to strengthen their argument.
The fact that their findings are being contested to this extent should be enough reason to not cite or use any information from that study. MarcoBarroca (talk) 05:24, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
The term "transgender people" should not be used in this article's title as this topic involves non-transgender people as well, most notably intersex people, which do not fall under the transgender umbrella. Perhaps this article should be moved to "Transgender and intersex people in sports"? – Treetoes023 (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
I find this sentence troubling:
"Canadian Women and Sport, a leading voice for the advancement of women and girls in sport,..."
Where is the source that cites the Canadian Women and Sport organization is a "leading voice". You can't just read that on their own website and assume that it is true. I would delete the second clause entirely as it reads like advertising and stick to the facts, that it is a lobby group. "Leading voice" implies that the group is respected, or indeed, known, more than it might actually be. You would need to prove notability by reference to independent, reliable sources.2604:3D09:C77:4E00:B58B:DC00:699C:262E (talk) 13:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
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In the Testing section, change "visual genital inspections were used to confirm gender" to "visual genital inspections were used to confirm sex". Trecarden (talk) 22:30, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects of being a man, woman, or other gender identity, whereas sex is (again, just looking at that article)
the trait that determines whether a sexually reproducing organism produces male or female gametes, which appears to be more appropriate in the context where it appears. The only potential concern I can identify is that the reference provided in that sentence uses the word gender in the sentence I assume was used as the source material. I've not made the change as it appears there might not be consensus, but just throwing it out there. Tollens (talk) 07:39, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Today I posted a ((Globalize)) template on the article as I am concerned that there tends to be too much of a focus on the US in the article; heck the title image is a map of US states. While the dispute of transgender people in sports seems to be mostly in the US, there are other countries in which they exist. Ultimately, it may be best to follow the model on how the topic of Arbitration is treated on Wikipedia; given that it has become a bit of a political matter in the United States, the article Arbitration in the United States exists. Similarly, Transgender people in sports and Transgender Americans in sports may need to happen. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 06:36, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Page is about the issue generally, but the picture as captioned indicates it is only related (or primarily related) to the USA. Please change caption to “ Map of state laws in the United States of America which ban transgender athletes from participating in the sport of their gender identity, as of September 2022:” or similar… Cbe46 (talk) 09:27, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a section here for World Athletics rules. If we are going to include heading for the policies of one major sports governing body, why not others? World Rugby, FINA, and the UCI have recently released guidelines, these are referenced in the article but scattered about.
IMO we should change the World Athletics section to a Sports Governing Bodies section, and consolidate all of those paragraphs there. Socksage (talk) 20:22, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
The fact that polls all around the world show that majority of people oppose this must be added to the lead. It is clearly notable and will make the lead more accurate 2001:569:7E26:6E00:B02A:E944:F419:7E34 (talk) 17:57, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
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Please change the following:
Under the Equality Act 2010, discrimination based on sex or gender reassignment is illegal, but certain sporting activities are exempt if transgender athletes competing would put non-transgender athletes at an unfair disadvantage. It does not apply to those who consider themselves trans or non-binary, but have not undergone gender reassignment officially.[1]
In April 2022, the Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he believed that transgender women should not compete in women's sport.[2]
To:
Under the Equality Act 2010, discrimination based on sex or gender reassignment is illegal, but certain sporting activities may be exempt if transgender athletes competing would put cisgender athletes at an unfair disadvantage or be unsafe to others. The UK Equality and Human Rights Commission cautions that "limiting or modifying access to, or excluding a trans person from, the separate or single-sex service of the gender in which they present will be unlawful if you cannot show such action is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This applies whether or not the person has a Gender Recognition Certificate."[3]
Rationale: The previous link used was potentially biased, of low authority, used anti-trans dogwhistles ("natal", "trans-women"), and was a single lawyer's opinion (which seems to conflict with the EHRC one). Using the EHRC website is much more useful, since it already refers specifically to trans people in sports, and provides a more authoritative source. The claim of the article cited originally, that equality legislation "does not apply to those who consider themselves trans or non-binary, but have not undergone gender reassignment officially", directly contradicts the claim of the EHRC, which says that you can be undergoing, or intending to undergo, gender reassignment, do not need to undergo any particular surgery or treatment, and do not need a gender recognition certificate. I.e., there is no "official" way to undergo gender reassignment, and the use of past-tense only is misleading (it can be a future or ongoing process).
Additionally, I suggest swapping the "non-transgender" wording here to "cisgender" to match the rest of the article (23 instances of cis; this is the only one for non-trans), and to use less clunky, more inclusive language.
As a technical thing, I also think we should move the line that follows this paragraph, about Boris Johnson, to the section on "Public opinion" (or delete it outright), since it's irrelevant opinion if he didn't actually change the law (and isn't actually in government anymore). Johnson is not the "public". Lewisguile (talk) 16:54, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
References
Genuine question. This page is specific to "sports" and many would classify chess as a "game" rather than a sport.
Indeed, the article for chess exclusively refers to the activity as a "game" throughout the body of the article, though it is also referred to as a "mind sport" once in the info box.
This may be seen as splitting hairs, but explicitly defining the scope of what is included under "sports" will have implications for other games/activities that may be included in this article in the future. Socksage (talk) 18:49, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
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Change the chess section from
In August 2023, the International Chess Federation, or FIDE, implemented a ban on trans women from playing chess in women's tournaments. Additionally, they implemented rules stripping trans men of any titles they might have earned while competing as women.[1][2][3]
To
In August 2023, the International Chess Federation, or FIDE, implemented a ban on trans women from playing chess in official FIDE women's tournaments as well as tournaments providing qualification spots to the Women's Chess World Cup. Additionally, they implemented rules stripping trans men of any women's titles they might have earned while competing as women.[1][2][4]
Reasons
References
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A cycling sub-section should be added to the world bodies section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.12.132.227 (talk) 01:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
The UCI has prohibited participation of female transgender athletes who have transitioned after (male) puberty in women's events on the elite UCI International Calendar.