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This Toki Pona language seems to have been constructed to do two (related) things:
1. make it difficult to express analytical thought
2. encourage expression of emotional states or attitudes
I think Toki Pona might be good, not as a device for communication, but as a sort of filter: "Can I say this in Toki Pona" for poetry, etc.
I find it rather revealing why it was deliberately made impractical to express numbers in Toki Pona: it is given as a reason that numbers are used to count possessions, and materialism is discouraged. I use large numbers, but not to count possessions: what if I wish to count the footsteps to a place in my neighborhood? I am sure there are more. I think the real reason for not having much in the way of numbers is that numbers are analytical, and Toki Pona is more or less a language of emotion. Let's face it, grunts and gestures would probably be more useful for everyday communication than this Toki Pona. -User:Juuitchan
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Sure, is that good or bad? -Lament
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toki pona has a lot of features found in so-called primitive languages. One of them is the number system, consisting of "1, 2, 5, alot".
Another is that there are only 5 colors: yellow, red, blue, black, and white. Linguists often make a point about languages and cultures making the "blue-green" split, where there become different words for blue and green. In toki pona (as in Japanese!), there's no difference.
Part of the deal with toki pona is to take a break from complexity in language, and deal with things simply (and deal with simple things). It simulates a simpler life. It's fun and challenging and kind of refreshing. -Iwe
This discussion has been blanked as a courtesy. |
I have deleted from the following pages each one's only reference to Toki Pona language:
On the following pages, where IMO the reference is reasonable, i added the phrase "the constructed language". (IMO, those 3 words should appear next to TP at its first use in every article. I have not, however, checked that that is the case on pages that seemed unlikely to require removal of their link to it.):
--Jerzy 00:38, 2004 Feb 15 (UTC)
I find it difficult to believe the creator of this language has somehow hit upon a linguistic form of universal compression, yet that seems to be what is intended. Given a text in English and its translation in Toki Pona, is it actually possible for a person who has no knowledge of the original text to translate it back? --Eequor 00:17, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
Not necessarily. In June 2003 a challenge was posted to the Toki Pona mailing list: a short text translated from English into Toki Pona, with a challenge to translate it back into English as close to the (unrevealed) original as possible. See [1] and the followups to that message. No one posted a correct retranslation.
But I don't think anyone claims that Toki Pona is as fully expressive as other languages with larger vocabularies. Nor do I see how the article is claiming any form of "universal compression". --Jim Henry 22:40, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Do the programs to express numbers in Toki Pona really belong in the article? The English text explains the algorithm clearly enough. - Jim Henry
This is primary unverified information, so it really isn't suitable for the article. But I thought it would be of interest to some people. It comes from #wikipedia briefly before the date of my signature. -- Tim Starling 14:04, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
<TimStarling> is that Sonjaaa as in Sonja Kisa? <Sonjaaa> hi TimStarling, how do you know my name? <TimStarling> we've spoken before, I think <TimStarling> we were wondering earlier today how many people can speak Toki Pona <TimStarling> the Wikipedia article doesn't say, and it would be nice to know <Sonjaaa> TimStarling hmmm maybe a couple dozen speak it proficiently <TimStarling> ok <Sonjaaa> i dont know all the speakers <Sonjaaa> the language has grown
Maybe we could call the Wikicities site a "Wiki-Style encyclopedia" or something. It's not on Wikipedia, but AFAIK, it still works as a Wiki?
How do you say "I am dying in extreme pain because no-one in my community knows the words which tell you how to make antibiotics" in Toki Pona? Or "the women are sad because no-one can describe how to perform a caesarean section, so both the mother and baby died"? -- The Anome 14:34, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
Sonjaaa reverted the edit describing how larger numbers are formed using luka (literally "hand") to signify "five". She says that the usage is deprecated; but I observe that speakers of Toki Pona are still using this feature. [2] It looks as though the speaker base is large enough and active enough to decide for themselves whether to accept new changes in the language dictated by its creator. --Jim Henry | Talk 28 June 2005 19:33 (UTC)
What literature is the anonymous user (probably jan Pije, I would guess) referring to as official? --Jim Henry | Talk 5 July 2005 19:05 (UTC)