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The claim that "the communists also crippled the language" by a spelling reform is obviously biased. It is also linguistically naïve. Please remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.204.147 (talk) 06:40, June 29, 2004
I agree and made appropriate changes. I don't know Romanian, but I do know a good deal about linguistics and language policy. Someone who actually knows Romanian ought to take a look. But "crippled the language" - c'mon! I know everybody hates Ceaucescu, but far, far, far more radical language reforms in Dutch were undertaken by quite democratically elected governments without "crippling the language". Diderot 14:52, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Actually, all vowel changed into the 'ɨ' in some cases, especially before "n", not just i or a.
Note : These vowels (â,ê,î,ô,û) were used before Romanian independence and were used so as to prove Romanian's latin origin and thus gain support from France. 18.18, 05 Aug 2017 (EEST / GMT + 3).
Initially, these words were written etymologically, like "vênt", but it was then simplificated to the current rule: at the beginning/end of words it should be used "î" and in the middle "â". It would be an aproximation of the etymological rule and for some cases it would be wrong:
The communists wanted to increase the productivity by eliminating a letter thus making the spelling easier, so everywhere was used "î", including in the word "romîn" (Romanian), which made some confusions abroad, since most people didn't knew that Romînia should be pronounced Romania, so in the 60s there was made an exception for Romania and derivates.
After the communism ended, the Academy thought that everything the communists did was wrong and reverted to the pre-WWII rule.
Bogdan | Talk 16:26, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The Romanian consonants 'c' and 'g' undergo a "softening" process like Italian in which 'c' is pronounced /t͡ʃ/ before 'i' or 'e', and 'g' is also pronounced /dʒ/ before 'e' and 'i'. Modified_by_a_romanian.
The comma below and cedilla is more of an arbitrary distinction for political purposes than an actual distinction. I can produce scans of the children's book mentioned in the article that uses both arbitrarily. If it were generally considered a matter of correctness, the book would have been sure to get it right. --Prosfilaes 06:09, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
As a subnote: the typographers on unicode@unicode.org were disdainful of the concept of comma below as a "real" diacitic; they considered it just a degenerate form of cedilla below that was easier to do in cheap publishing, since the comma doesn't attach and so you could use an s/t and a comma instead of having a seperate piece of lead for s/t with cedilla. --Prosfilaes 06:22, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with that. Turkish alphabet was created only in 1928, while S-comma was in use in the Romanian alphabet almost a hundred years earlier. Bogdan | Talk 12:26, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I suggest to merge Special Romanian Unicode characters into Romanian alphabet because both articles discuss about the history of S-comma and T-comma, and that the character encoding problem is also mentioned in Romanian alphabet article. --Hello World! 16:01, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, "domine deus" is the Latin translation of Greek "kurios ho theos", i.e. "the Lord God". I'm not sure which is the connection with Jupiter. bogdan 13:07, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
How are diacritics expressed in the phonetic alphabet? Andreas 13:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
It appears that in the Romanian phonetic alphabet diacritics are not transmitted at all. In telegrams I know from personal experience that they are not transmitted, and that punctuation marks are transmitted as words ("stop" is used for the period at the end of a sentence). In the Romanian phonetic alphabets I found on the internet letter Ţ appears to be transmitted using the word "ţară" (country), but there is no mention of the other four letters with diacritics. Possibly, in the quite rare cases when a diacritic can change the meaning of a word and cannot be inferred from the context -- such as in "paturi" (beds) and "pături" (blankets) -- the diacritic is read aloud as a separate word, but this is just my personal opinion. — AdiJapan ☎ 15:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
What if a text was in all-capitals? Andreas (T) 14:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe, this article should write about the attempts of using a closer to Latin spelling and alphabet in the 19th century.
bogdan 21:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC):Please remove un-copyrighted-image"A sample" and use typeing instead. This is not a test-page188.25.52.56 (talk) 02:45, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Was q replaced with c like in Spanish? (quanto>>>cuanto)?Cameron Nedland 00:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
To clarify: Q was never present in the language, it is only present in loanwords (same as K). The C is used for the sound, and it would be pointless to have Q, K and C representing the same sound. » byeee 00:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
The acute accent seems to be liberally used in romanian newspapers for the situations where confusion is possible. Eg: copii = children, cópii = copies. Anyone knows if there's a norm for that? 86.125.104.26 10:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
№ 1: I don't think the QWERTZ layout is ‘official’. In any case, I've added a ‘citation needed’ tag.
№ 2: I think the ‘official’ SR 13392:2004 standards should be mentioned, as they are increasingly common as default romanian layout in various operating systems (Linux and Microsoft Vista).
№ 3: I don't think the JLG layout is relevant. Does anyone here use it?193.111.68.74 09:37, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
It seems to meet the letter of the definition of diacritics, but smells funny to me. I think we need some experts, and by that I don't mean just native Romanian speakers, but certified scholars in this matter, to weigh in on the subject. VasileGaburici (talk) 13:21, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I reinserted this sentence: "Some publications, such as România literară, magazine of the Writers' Union of Romania, and publishing houses such as Polirom allow authors to choose either spelling norm." It had been deleted by Ayceman without explanation. Here's why I reinserted it:
— AdiJapan 06:13, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
thanks for above comments - i did not know the reform addressed the question of sint/sant/sunt - thanks again —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.88.103 (talk) 00:37, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I need help. Currently I'm in the middle of a vast reworking/rewriting project involving the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture article. Although I'm very interested in the history of this time period, I am quite ignorant of Romanian language and spelling/text conventions. I mean, I wouldn't know correct Romanian if it was biting me in the butt.... However, as part of the reworking of this article, I am attempting to standardize the spelling throughout the article - for instance, when I started working on this, there was about a half-a-dozen different ways that the name Ștefan Cucoș was being spelled in various references throughout the text. Well, I found this article about Romanian alphabet, and have used its recommendations as a rule to go by in standardizing the spellings of Romanian names and words in references and text in the article I'm working on.
Well, so far so good, right?
But then, after making these changes, I saved the file and looked at it, and: lo-and-behold: many of the links to Wikipedia articles that I'd corrected no longer worked - they acted as if I was linking to nonexistent articles. For instance, I changed the text in the link embedded in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture article for Iași County. As you can see, that is a dead link - due to the fact that there is no article with that spelling (keep in mind, that if you're reading this later, the link may actually work, because I'm going to do a workaround fix for these). However, if I was to use the incorrect spelling of Iaşi County, then voila! it now works. So what's up with that?
I have a couple of ways I can do a workaround for this: one is to make these links in the article look like this: [[Iaşi County|Iași County]], where the first link has the incorrect text, but works - and the second corrected text part is what will show in the Cucuteni article, but which won't successfully link to the county article.
The other workaround would be to create separate Redirect pages that will automatically link various spellings of the word to the correct page. In the case of "Iaşi County" (which has the incorrect, cedilla styled Unicode 3.0 spelling), there already is a redirect page from "Iasi County" (which is just a regular "s"), so it would be simple just to add another redirect page for "Iași County" (which has the correct, comma styled Unicode 5.2 spelling). I don't really mind doing this, but I'm still not completely satisfied with this option.
And so this brings me to my proposal: is it at all possible that the Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania editors - and those who have posted here to this article - could attempt to maintain an official spelling standard for articles that use Romanian language? The optimal situation (in my opinion) would be that articles that have Romanian words within the title maintain a standard spelling convention. I myself don't care one way or another what this standard would be - I'm completely non-invested in any of the discussions above about which style is linguistically or politically correct, since I do not speak Romanian it makes very little difference to me how it's spelled, so long as there's a standard that is adhered to here in the English pages of Wikipedia in order to avoid such awkward and inconsistent situations as the one I've outlined above in my own experience.
So - I put it to you, my fellow editors - shall we create some kind of WikiProject Romania subcommittee to establish a standard convention of Romanian spelling - and then have the authority to insist that article titles (at the very least) that contain Romanian words adhere to this standard? I for one would be quite willing to volunteer to help with this, but I do not have the expertise to make the call as to which style should be the officially-sanctioned spelling convention.
Please respond here if you are interested or wish to comment. --Saukkomies talk 22:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
interesting article, but personaly i am more interested in how the alphabet evolved to become what it is today. so what kind did the dacians used, the protoromanians, how did the cyrillic became no.1 and there were some greek alphabet "times" in early modern history i think. i invite wikipedians to expand!thx!--Prometeu (talk) 14:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
It's nothing too serious, but two sentences in the section strike me as biased against the "Î" side of the debate. The fact that they're both unsourced as well doesn't help, so I'm removing them as they're not essential to the section.
The first part of this sentence is ok, but the second part implies that the reform has 'failed' its purpose, while ignoring that the strict "Î" spelling was also etymologically inaccurate, even moreso regarding common, day-to-day words. Also, you can't include a statistic without sourcing it, else it's just a weasel word.
Again, this whole sentence seems to want to point out the failings of the reform, and again ignoring that the issue was already there to begin with, just for different words.
Please, don't add them back without giving good reasons and/or sources in the discussion page. Reject 666 6 (talk) 03:30, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
The list "Letters and their pronunciation" gives [h] as in house. No, it mostly sounds like [x] in loch.
That keyboard - what is that? with exclusively German ß, exclusively Polish barred L, exclusively Serbo-croatian barred D?` Never saw such like in România. Nuremberg Oct. 2011 Ángel García 87.158.153.219 (talk) 16:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
To the user 188 who keeps adding a claim about the difference in pronunciation of î and â:
All linguistic sources agree that the two letters represent the same sound. There is no exception and no controversy on this subject in the literature. No linguist has ever said that "more academic research remains to be done" to check whether the two letters represent distinct or identical sounds. As such, our article cannot contain such a claim. If you think otherwise, please cite your sources. I'm willing to bet you won't find any.
The fact that there are two letters for this sound has historic reasons. Originally, there used to be 4 or 5 letters for it (â, ê, î, û, and sometimes ô) and their choice depended on etymology. In the 1904 spelling reform, that number dropped to two. For about a decade around 1960, it dropped to one, then rose back to two. After the 1993 reform, the usage rules of the two letters changed dramatically and so did their distribution. But this evolution pertains entirely to spelling convention and has never reflected changes in language phonology.
What you may have noticed is the fact that when this sound (however we write it) is followed by [n] in the same syllable, it becomes nasal, that is, a word like însă and one like îl begin with slightly different vowels. But those vowels are different only phonetically. They are allophones of the same phoneme /ɨ/. And since the Romanian spelling is largely phonemic, we can safely say that letters î and â represent the same phoneme. Besides, there are words spelled with â where it represents either a nasal or an oral /ɨ/, for example când and bâtă, and also there are words spelled with î where it can be either nasal or oral, such as încă and își. So the two letters don't even reflect an allophonic difference.
By the way, the word înimă does not exist. Please contribute only to subjects you have at least some basic knowledge in. — AdiJapan 02:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
"zz in "pizza" but with considerable emphasis on the "ss""
hmm what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.22.175.37 (talk) 20:35, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
IS X only used in foreign borrowings?Alexlatham96 (talk)
What was the resolution or law that forced Microsoft to support the full Romanian alphabet? -- sion8 talk page 22:29, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
When explaining the phonology of each letter in non-IPA examples, “merry” is perhaps the worst possible English sample word as it has variant pronunciations in all dialects of English (cf. Mary-marry-merry merger).
Perhaps another English example that is more uniform would be better for any non-linguists reading this article?
73.85.156.86 (talk) 21:38, 27 August 2021 (UTC)Tom in South Florida
Native Pronunciation of Romanian language is slightly different. 37.111.207.11 (talk) 09:35, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
The section about the Polish language is wrong. Modern Polish dz as a result of palatalization is derived from the historical sequence g + ie, whereas d softened to dź [dʑ]. You can't just assume that palatalization of a certain letter gives way to the same sound in every language. 89.244.89.26 (talk) 02:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)