This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pomaks article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
|
|
Daily page views
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
With the reality, Pomaks are also re-christianised before the 1st world war. They are also considered Pomaks. So it must hesitate to define the people Muslim Slavic etc. Maybe just Slavic and then in the religion title it talks about. I believe that there are also atheist Pomaks as well. Regards Anton.aldemir (talk) 00:19, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
The History section is a complete disaster. One cannot include five Greek extremely unpopular sources (with three of them blogs and suspicious websites with no references) and claim that to be "true" history. Moreover the view that there was some struggle of the Pomaks of Macedonia from 1904 to 1908 on the side of Greece is funny. Please, if you write about the history of the Pomaks, do it neutrally and cite internationally recognized literature or literature that does not introduce some funny theories. More over it is stupid to start the history of the Pomaks at 1904 with some funny statement that Pomaks fought against Bulgaria and Turkey(!!!) in order to become part of Greece. That's complete nonsense! --Chech Explorer (talk) 17:41, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
You may be right but there are not some facts verified for the history of Pomaks, earlier. The verified history of Pomaks starts with Ottoman rule. Earlier, there is so much mystery that there aren't any facts that can be characterized as "history". By the way, about the sources, I think newspaper "Natpresh", that it is written by Pomaks, is the only reliable source in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.103.211.188 (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
No. That blog is the blog of the newspaper. See here some volumes of the Natpresh. It is a newspaper, used to be edited by the Center of Pomakic Research, in Komotini. Now belongs to Sebaidin Karachotza and has already 3 years.
I don't think someone has the right to delete the history section without any discussion first. I realize that there are different points of view but this is not a reason to erase history. The section refers:
It is a matter of conflict and we have to bring sources about these issues.
It is a matter of conflict and we have to bring sources about these issues.
It is a matter of conflict and we have to bring sources about these issues.
It is a matter of conflict and we have to bring sources about these issues.
There are a lot of facts that happened during the recent history of the Pomaks. In fact all those facts led us to the conclusion that they are a separate group. Their existence is traced because of many historical facts. We cannot hide these facts now and in the same time, we try to understand their origins. Every tribe, race, nation has its own history. This history must be written at the article of the Pomaks. Unless we prefer to create a new article for the "Pomak history".
There is no reason to erase the history of Pomaks just because we disagree. We will talk, we will bring sources and if we don't agree finally, we can put all points of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.103.211.188 (talk) 18:13, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
About the historical facts for the turn of Pomaks to Islam, there are some references:
About the "Republic of Tamrash" see the sources in the article of Wikipedia. About the participation of the Pomaks in the Greek struggle for Macedonia, see the sources in the article of Wikipedia. About the "Republic of Western Thrace" see the sources in the article of Wikipedia. About the letter of the 8 Pomak members of Bulgarian parliament, I couldn't find a history book, but I think I will soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.103.211.188 (talk) 21:52, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Quote: "Pomaks started to become Muslim gradually, from the Ottoman occupation (early 15th century) to the end of the 18th century."
98.171.185.47 (talk) 07:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
While this flag has been removed from the article because it was added by a banned sock, any user who would like to reinsert the flag that none of the sources given can be considered reliable. 9 is a dead link, 2, 6, 7, 8 and 10 are simply pictures of this flag used on various pages without any explanation, 5 is from Slavialand which is an website of unknown authorship and veracity, 3 and 4 (one source repeated) itself uses as a source some of these websites and Wikipedia and 1 seems to be the work a Turkish organization which commits glaring errors (their distribution of the Pomaks, for example). It might indeed be possible that the flag by some organization of Pomaks in Turkey, however evidence of its use outside Turkey or as an ethnic flag of the Pomaks seems to be nonexistent, therefore the flag can't be reinserted with the current sources, if it is to meet Wikipedia standards on reliable sources. Kostja (talk) 06:32, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
I removed the rant about a "state-sponsored assimilation of the Bulgarian pomaks and conversion of their moslem/arabic names to Bulgarian ones" and the events in the 1984-5, 1989 as these had nothing to do with the pomaks but were rather against the Turkish minority, even the reference given by the author clearly states that in its subject. Pomaks have alway had Bulgarian names and needed no name changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.189.232.108 (talk) 23:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
The truth is that the Arabic names of the Pomaks were changed with Slavic names.K. Ali 01:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karim Ali (talk • contribs)
Why is this ethnic group being labeled 'Bulgarian' when many of them identify as something else? --124.169.240.24 (talk) 12:24, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I made the following edit to the lead [1], on the grounds that to say that they are "usually" considered Bulgarians is WP:UNDUE andwording. This is sourced to a single source, hence the claim that this is "usually" the case is unsubstantiated. Second, "some authors" claim that their origins are unknown is again weasel wording. Someone could just as easily written that their origins are "usually" unknown and that "some authors" consider them Bulgarian converts to Islam. Since their precise origins are unknown and there are many hypotheses, the most logical thing is to say: "Their precise origins are unknown. They are sometimes considered Bulgarians who converted to Islam while alternative hypotheses on their origins are also known." To me, that is the clearest, most logical and NPOV way to proceed. Also, the removal of the Greek and Turkish name is silly and jingoistic, while being a disservice to our readers. Athenean (talk) 18:26, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Do not write that Pomak origins are unkown, write how the source shows some authors consider them as unkown, if not I will write my sourced information which you remove without giving a reason- Most schoolars consider them as Bulgarians of Islamic faith, true and sourced fact. And stop with these ridicilous Greek nationalistic edits adding greek names maximum 10 000 pomaks of half million have greek selfidentification. Pensionero (talk) 19:29, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
I revrted the neutral version of Jingiby, you really have to provide reliable sources to say directly unkown origins. Pensionero (talk) 19:43, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
And of course is important how many have "Greek self-identification", If I go on this logic, adding Bulgarian names on Alexander the Great and Athens, which have nothing to do the Bulgarian language, Will be correct this? For the Turkish name I don't know but the Greek name is not needed on the page. Pensionero (talk) 19:49, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Not that they are Turks or Greeks, this bullshit overflow the intro and the infobox. That is undue as the Greek name is clearly stayted in paragraph Greece for which country is only important not for the entire community. Should I add that in Albania there are 100-150 000 Pomaks, if we add the albanian name in the infobox and the intro what will beacome? A verry messy interesting page for our readers. What do you think? Pensionero (talk) 23:51, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Could you post which changes are dramatical, I am cleaning generally not foreign authors. Besides reverting me you also placed some your unexplained edits such as "Bulgarains sometimes are regarded as descedents of Bulgarians who converted to Islam" Pensionero 16:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I haven't changed info in the introduction excluding removal view of Turkish author. The other was moving ahead languages than the identities. And I don't know how you have counted 3 rvts. but I reverted once. Pensionero 16:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
As you have again reverted and "cleaned" without disucssion the original introduction of this article I have placed a warning on your talk page Tendentious Editing Warning-Note and 3RR. I suggest that you should be banned by admin, expecting opinions from other editors on this subject. Hittit (talk) 16:20, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Stop with your manipulations for 3rr, here my only revert when I reverted you [3] Pensionero 16:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Here I have to state that I reverted second time, but I still have not breaked 3rr rule[4] Pensionero 16:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
It is tendentious to classify this article as "Part of a series on Bulgarians". It is a general Bulgarian State Policy not to classify its citizens as Pomaks this was again evident in the last census from this year where ethnicities as Pomak were removed from the census templates and all Pomaks are registered as ethnic Bulgarians (under Muslim). This being the case it seems quite impossible to have officially Pomaks in Bulgaria. Currently there is no reliable data on Pomaks in Bulgaria since it is forbidden to classify them as such in any statistics. Pomaks however are found in large numbers in many Balkans states and could be part of e.g., series on Turkey since it seems most Pomaks today live there. Hittit (talk) 16:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I will respond you simply, the Bulgarian Muslims are locally called Pomaks, the second reason is the Bulgarian mother tongue. Pensionero (talk) 16:54, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Sad you can not understand, the Bulgarian Muslims call themselves Pomaks locally not in census, also there was no census where someone have identified as Pomak ethnically if we go on this logic there are no Pomaks not in Bulgaria but in the world. Pensionero (talk) 17:11, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Hittitt you have to have difference between Bulgarisation and claiming that a group of people is part of an ethnicity, the source doesn't says Bulgarification but caliming them as part of someones and this is Weasel wording. Furthermore that the Pomaks are descedents of Bulgarians is supported by 5 sources and by neither one that they are descedents of "Ethnic Pomaks". This claiming stays ridicilous in the page along with "The Pomaks are usually considered descendants of native Bulgarians who converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the Balkans".Pensionero (talk) 17:06, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
de Jong writes about the Muslim minority in Greece, but am quite sure that he does not state anything like "the origins of the Muslim minority in Greece remain unknown". The Muslim minority is composed of Turks, Pomaks and Roma, and it is absurd to lump them all together in this context. The sentence simply does not make sense, and the link to "Muslim minority of Greece" makes it even worse.79.160.40.10 (talk) 17:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello Jingiby. I ask you to reconsider your reverting of my addition to the intro om Pomaks. I am rather new to this game, and I see now that I need some help making the referencing good enough. I wrote 5ff in the the Aarbakke reference, meaning page 5 and the following pages according to the pagination of the document. This is page 27 in the pdf-file, which may make the referencing confusing. For instance: In the lower part of page 5 (27) you will find the sentence "There exists a plethora of books with more or less fanciful theories about the Pomaks." Don't you think this is a relevant source? The other source, which you have deleted, is even more relevant. On page 106 and 107 according to the pagination of the document (page 12 and 13 in the pdf file), she discusses the different Greek and Turkish theories of origin. I think these two sources justify the sentence "although alternative narratives ..." I think that it is a good thing that these two authors do not propose any theories themselves, but just refer to others. Then the alternative theories themselves can be treated in the lower part of the article, where they belong. Regards! 79.160.40.10 (talk) 11:51, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, 79.160.40.10 the alternative theories are treaten in the lower part of the article, because they are simply fringe views. Regs.
The point is: There exists "alternative narratives", fringe or not, and they have been heavily discussed through years and years, as those two sources shows (and I could give more, similar sources). That is in itself an interesting fact that should be represented in the article. Your point about fringe is still covered by the wording "are usually considered" in contrast to "although ... have been proposed". Actually, the very fact that this has been edited in and out of the intro many times, strengthens my view. I will try to get time to continue this discussion on the Pomak talk page. Regards 79.160.40.10 (talk) 14:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
However, here is an encyclopedia, not a place for collections of alternative narratives, fairy-tales, science-fictions or fantasy-stories. Regs. Jingby (talk) 14:35, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
OK, I guess we have to agree that we disagree! Could I ask you to transfer what we have discussed here to the Pomak talk page, so that we can let other people give their view. I do not know how to make the transfer, and it would be silly to use your and my time to repeat the same things arguments. Is that OK with you? 79.160.40.10 (talk) 14:46, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I totally agree with ☼, and the biggest casualty has been the Pomaks article its self.Hittit (talk) 11:29, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Todor it is not relevant what theories you personally associate explaining the origins of the Pomaks. There is enough international and non-Bulgarian research to conclude that the Pomak origin is for now obscure and that clearly there is a great debate on the topic. The fanciful theory of them being from Bulgarian origin (Bulgarian meaning member of the Bulgarian Orthodox community who identifies its self as being from the South-Slavic religious and cultural domain) and somehow converted is to mildly put it a product of Bulgarian nationalist state policy (anti-Turk, anti-Muslim) prior to 1989. Kristen Rogheh Ghodsee points out that this product of the Bulgarian Communist propaganda is what Bulgarian prefer/choose to believe in and have systematically tried to present, now after 1989 they have clearly changed their angle. I personally am not interested in Bulgarian POV and would like to see this article discussed from all views providing an objective discussion on the Pomaka as an ethnic group. For those interested please consult Kristen Rogheh Ghodsee from page 37. * Ghodsee, Kristen Rogheh (2010). Muslim lives in Eastern Europe. Princeton, New Jersey.((cite book))
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link) Hittit (talk) 05:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Well read again.Hittit (talk) 14:49, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Good to see you all back, ready to hit each other on the head. Could I be so bold as to make a suggestion? Instead of pushing pro- and anti-Bulgarian, pro- and anti-Greek, pro- and anti-Turkish, pro- and anti-whatever POVs (mentioned alfabetically, so as not to offend anyone), wouldn't it be possible to join forces to make this article better? People seem to agree that it is a mess. The history of the article shows that most attempts to add something, usually ends with deletion, because everyone disagrees with the last speaker.
Leaving the intro as it is for a while, what we clearly need, is a serious presentation of the theories of origin, not only the "alternative" theories, but also the main theory. The part that is called "History" needs a complete rewriting into a clear presentation of the main theory of origin. The "Other origin theories" needs to be expanded.
And please do not play the "fringe" card. The production of theories (of very diverse quality, admittedly) about the Pomaks during many years is an interesting fact in itself – actually what first raised my interest in the Pomaks. When authors like Ghodsee, Aarbakke, Demetriou and many others use time to discuss such theories, it is because they shed light on the connection between nationality, nation building and foreign policy in SE Europa. And as this talk page (and many others) shows, this is a very sensitive, but immensely interesting area (not least for an outsider like me).
When you all have contributed to make this article a better one, we may have made a small step for man, but a . . . – oh, never mind. Good luck! 79.160.40.10 (talk) 13:25, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I have a strong feeling that we have seen this before. Ah, yes! Those same edits were done back in March by (surprise!) Pensionero. At that time they were challenged and corrected by several editors, and the edit war eventually came to an end.
And now suddenly these edits are back.
Please bear in mind that this is an article not about Bulgarian Muslims, but about Pomaks in several countries (among them Bulgarian Muslims). It is therefore quite relevant and proper to present the name of the group in the countries where there is a significant number of Pomaks. It is also not relevant or proper to present this article as a part of a series on Bulgarians.
Please refrain from starting this "Bulgarification campaign" all over again. Regards! 79.160.40.10 (talk) 07:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
"Pomaks are today usually considered descendants of native Bulgarians who converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the Balkans." The better sentence is: Pomaks, in 21 c., are usually considered descendants of native Christians who were converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the Balkans. K. Ali 05:01, 27 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karim Ali (talk • contribs)
American Chronicle, despite its dignified name, is basically a repository of various authors with dubious credentials and is little better than a blog. Now of course this can be examined by the reliable source board but I would that a quick browsing of the site will reveal its low reliability. Kostja (talk) 19:33, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Selian, Edouard (2009). The Pomaks: an Islamized People of Europe
Selian, Edouard (2010). The Immortal Spirit of the Goddess Nané fit well with the text for the “Paulician and Bogomil origin”.
Questioning the credibility of the “American Chronicle” seems like an attempt to eliminate the above articles. You should attempt to disprove the content of the articles rather than try to slander the source of the articles. Simba22 (talk) 01:24, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
"The Pomaks are descendants of the Paulicians - Armenians who were converted to Islam" according to Edouard Selian.
That the Pomaks are converted Paulicians is not logical at all. The Paulicians were a Christian heretical group and they were literate. The Pomaks are not literate and it's inconceivable that a group of people would loose their alphabet and written tradition within a span of few hundred years. The Pomaks do not even have a oral tradition that they once were literate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsimiski (talk • contribs) 06:27, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
I propose that this page be edited to reflect the fact that Macedonian Muslims and Gorani are not considered "Pomaks" in a modern context. It is misleading to suggest that these people are Pomaks, given that the word Pomak is generally used to describe Bulgarian-speaking Muslims living in Greece/Bulgaria/Turkey, and not Macedonian-speaking Muslims living in Macedonia/Albania. If however, it is decided that it is necessary for these sections to remain, then the Infobox and the lead needs to be changed in order to reflect these facts. What are people ideas pertaining to this? Or should I be WP:BOLD? Lunch for Two (talk) 09:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
As per Hugh Poulton's opinion in "Muslim identity and the Balkan State, Institute of Muslim Minority Affairs (Imma) Hurst, 1997" there are Pomaks in Macedonia even today. This view is supported in "Ethnic Groups of Europe: An Encyclopedia от Jeffrey Cole ABC-CLIO, 2011, ISBN 1598843028"; [5], as well as by "Dismembering the state: the death of Yugoslavia and why it matters, P. H. Liotta Lexington Books, 2001, ISBN 0739102125": [6]. There are more sources, but I think thеse are enough. However, the lead needs to be changed in order to reflect these fact. Jingby (talk) 10:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
No, there are a lot of sources. [7]; [8]. Stop POV-pushing Macedonistic agendas. They are ridiculous. Jingby (talk)
You got a lot of reliable scientific sources. Do not change the article. Stop POV-pushing! Jingby (talk) 11:44, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I suppose that the Bulgarian fellows try to push the idea that all Slavic Muslims are Pomaks. In that case, the Bosniaks are Pomaks right? In reality, Pomaks are only in Bulgaria and Greece, in Macedonia and Albania they are called Torbes, in Kosovo Gorani and they are not related. Separate the facts please.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
There needs to be a separation between the Pomak language and the Pomak ethnicity, currently in the article it states that Pomak are somewhat Slavic Muslims? Highly contested, I would remove "Slavic". Pomaks are a Muslim population group native to the Balkans.Hittit (talk) 18:39, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Serbo-Croatian speaking Muslims have formed in the last 60 years on the base of their religion the Bosnians ethnos and their language is called recently Bosnian. The Bulgarian-speaking Muslims are called Pomaks. Part of them - in Macedonia, Albania and Kosovo, are speaking the most western Bulgarian dialects, which after the WWII are considered to be Macedonian dialects. Jingiby (talk) 09:33, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the claim that Pomaks speak the Macedonian language as native as the prevailing evidence is that they speak Bulgarian and the sources submitted to prove that they spoke Macedonian do not actually support this claim. Two of the sources (Yearbook of Muslims in Europe and The Albanian Question: Reshaping The Balkans) do not mention the Pomaks at all. The third source - Balkan Idols: Religion and Nationalism in Yugoslav States Religion and Global Politics - does not indicate what language is spoken by the Pomaks. And the fourth source - Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations: L-R - call their language Bulgarian twice. If the Torbesh and Gorani were once called Pomaks, that seems to be no longer the case today, as most sources about the Pomaks do not mention them living in Macedonia, Albania or Kosovo. In any case, it should be noted that when those people were called Pomaks, the language spoken in Macedonia was generally considered a Bulgarian dialect.
Also, the Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations is of dubious reliability, containing many obvious errors about the Pomaks. Most notably: 1. Razlog, a town with hardly any Pomaks is called capital and cultural center of the Pomaks. Also, Razlog certainly doesn't have 22,000 inhabitants. 2. It is claimed that the Pomaks call Smolyan Smilyan, but that's actually a separate settlement. 3. The claim that there are Pomaks in Romania. 4. While the encyclopedia describes the Pomaks as mainly living in the Rhodope mountains, it claims that their dialect is close to both Bulgarian and Macedonian, which contradicts a more reliable source that considers the dialects of the Rhodopes eastern Bulgarian dialects (the Macedonian dialects are considered a western Bulgarian dialects by Bulgarian linguists). When once considers that tertiary sources like this encyclopedia should be used with caution and only for straight factual statements (and not interpretations), this source certainly is not sufficient for the claim that the Pomaks speak Macedonian (and for the statement about their supposed flag, either). Kostja (talk) 07:54, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
New reliable source added :" Macedonian language is spoken by the Muslim Torbeshi in Macedonia. Torbeshi is the name given to the Pomaks who live in Macedonia". Jingiby (talk) 08:08, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
You too! Jingiby (talk) 08:19, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
In the last 24 howers you have 4 reverts. Jingiby (talk) 08:28, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
If the Macedonian dialect of this people is a fundamental problem for you, it is posible to remove them from the article. Jingiby (talk) 08:28, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
I am ready to revert myself and to remove the sections about the Gorani, the Torbeshi and their language. Do you agree with this proposal? Jingiby (talk) 08:34, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
OK! Jingiby (talk) 08:59, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Pomak is the Bulgarian Version of the Pomeranians (Slavic tribe).
So Pomaks are nothing else as Pomeranians (Slavic tribe), who settled in the Rhodope. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.248.171.50 (talk) 02:04, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
The translation of "Yunancko" according to the Research Team of the local Newspaper of Glafki "Matia tis Glafkis" (head of research team is Seinour Malko) is "Greek". Any other translations must lay on sources. My Greek-Pomak dictionary "H kathimerinh glossa ton Pomakon tis periochis Mykis"/"The daily language of Pomaks of Myki area" by Sembaedin Karachotza (Spanoudis editions, Xanthi 2006) agrees with that. What is said, that "Yunancko" means "Heroic" is not supported by sources and it is completely wrong since "hero" is "yunak" in pomak language and not "Yunan". "Yunan" means "Greek" also in Turkish language. User:Pyraechmes Chrusts 12:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Word Yunancko is never used in South Slavic.
This is not reliable translation. Jingiby (talk) 12:55, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
First of all:
The word to be translated is "Yunancko". So "Yunacko" is out of the question.
Let's now talk about "Yunancko".
"Unreliable source"
You said that the source is unreliable. Is it?
"Matia tis Glafkis"[14] is the Student magazine of Glafki Senior Highschool. It is edited by the School with the teachers' supervision.
The Writing Commitee is Nazli Zoumboul, Embie Kara Chotza and Ostzan Kalfa. The research team of that publishment is Dilel Azizoglou, Sevgi Azizoglou, Ailin Ali Dai, Aila Achmetsik, Tzeilan Achmetsik, Emine Giritli, Chassan Gida, Nazli Zoumboul, Reichan Zoumboul, Orchan Imam, Atzer Ichtiar, Ailin Kapza, Asli Kara Chassan, Embie Kara Chotza, Ostzan Kalfa, Metin Kiose, Ersan Kiontse, Erchan Kiourt Tsolak, Sendat Kots, Osman Mekera and Seinour Malko.
That Magazine published that song on its second issue.
The "Cultural Pomak Association of Xanthi prefecture" is a recognized Association by the Greek State Law.[15]
The "blog" "Pomakochoria" (ΠΟΜΑΚΟΧΩΡΙΑ) is the official site of the "Cultural Pomak Association of Xanthi prefecture". [16]. It just re-published the song.
So, I think the source is reliable.
"Verification needed"
That song with the same translation is also published in two books of Pomak researcher and folk singer Ali Rongo. The fist book "Pomakika Dimotika Tragoudia tis Thrakis" (Pomak traditional songs of Thrace) Volumes I & II, published in Xanthi 2002[17]. And, "Paramythia ke Tragoudia ton Pomakon tis Orinis Xanthis" (Myths and Songs of Pomaks in Mountainous Xanthi) published in 2006.[18]
So, I think we have the appropriate verification.
About liguistic notices you 've made, I have to add that a lot of Pomak villages have much more Turkish influence than others. So, it is quite common that Pomak language varies from village to village and each variation depends on the Turkish influence. That explains why some villages count numbers in slavic and some others in turkish (in that song the numbers are mixed: "trimina" for "three" but "on dokus" for "nineteen"), That's why in some villages "Greek" is "Urumcko" but in some others is "Yunancko".
The sources are clear.
User:PyraechmesChrusts 16:35, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
I suppose it must be changed to Turkish(majority) and Bulgarian, Greek as minority since more than %60 of the Pomaks live in Turkey and speak Turkish.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on Pomaks. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add ((cbignore))
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add ((nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot))
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 00:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
This article needs to clear whether this is an uniform ethnic group or a term used for Slavic Muslims. The article uses an infobox. This is dubious.--Zoupan 21:35, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
The name ... refers to about 220,000 people in Bulgaria ... Pomaks inhabit borderlands ... between Bulgaria and Greece
The Pomaks, known officially in Bulgaria as Bulgarian Muhammadans or Bulgarian Muslims, are an ethno-confessional minority at present numbering about 220,000 people.
living in the Rhodope Mountains in Thrace in southern Bulgaria, northeastern Greece, and northwestern Turkey.
Please clarify the scope of this article. Per this, proper identification, I am removing Gorani and Torbeshi from the introduction and infobox. reinforcing with these references.--Zoupan 14:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on Pomaks. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add ((cbignore))
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add ((nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot))
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the |checked=
to true
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 23:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
The problem is here. A mysterious troll reverts my edits :-D Manaviko (talk) 18:53, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Moved from my user talk page. --T*U (talk) 09:18, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Pomakish as a slavic language and it is a fact that in Slavic languages, the endings -ski stands for -ish, isch and also, with -ian and -ien in Germanic ones as seen in the examples for Schlesich / Silesian language. Where have you checked this word whether it exist or not; here are some ghosty Pomakish words. Pomaks want Pomakish in the schools. Wikipedia must be updated, not to repeat what is told before. Thanks for your understanding. Manaviko (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
This kind of attitudes show us one more time that Pomakish people have no right to be represented as Pomakish people, a population by their own, instead of being shown as only a small group, this must be why their proper name cant' find a place to put, but only in other languages. I condemn it Manaviko (talk) 14:06, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Pomaks. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
((dead link))
tag to http://www.azinlikca.net/pdfs/thesis/The_uncertainty_of_Pomakness_in_the_urban_Greek_Rhodoppe.pdf((dead link))
tag to http://www.azinlikca.net/pdfs/thesis/The_uncertainty_of_Pomakness_in_the_urban_Greek_Rhodoppe.pdf((dead link))
tag to http://www.azinlikca.net/pdfs/thesis/The_uncertainty_of_Pomakness_in_the_urban_Greek_Rhodoppe.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ((Sourcecheck))
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:56, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Ninjoust: Please explain the reason for not following WP:BULGARIANNAMES. Also please explain how Arab script is relevant here. Also please read WP:BRD. When your bold edit was reverted, the next step should not be edit war, but discussion in the talk page. --T*U (talk) 15:10, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Pomaks. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
((dead link))
tag to http://www.azinlikca.net/pdfs/thesis/The_uncertainty_of_Pomakness_in_the_urban_Greek_Rhodoppe.pdf((dead link))
tag to http://www.azinlikca.net/pdfs/thesis/The_uncertainty_of_Pomakness_in_the_urban_Greek_Rhodoppe.pdf((dead link))
tag to http://www.azinlikca.net/pdfs/thesis/The_uncertainty_of_Pomakness_in_the_urban_Greek_Rhodoppe.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:07, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:07, 30 December 2020 (UTC)