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Monarchy of New Zealand was nominated as a good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (February 13, 2021). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
On 12 September 2017, it was proposed that this article be moved from Monarchy of New Zealand to Monarchy in New Zealand. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
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I noticed Pokelova you have changed the name of Bill English, as PM, to Sir Bill. I think this is an anachronism and probably should not have happened, because he was not Sir Bill when PM, which is relevant in this article. The problem though is greater than that because all the previous PMs have been given their post-PM titles. I expect this inappropriate naming has occurred in many NZ articles so I thought I'd comment here to try to get some form of consensus before changing names everywhere. Any thoughts welcome. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 20:49, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Queen Victoria is listed as the first monarch to reign over New Zealand (the British colony dating from 1841). Conversely, the infobox gives Edward VII as the first monarch. Perhaps Victoria should be listed instead. The date at which the British monarch became the independent New Zealand monarch is unclear; does it date from Dominion status, from the Statute of Westminster Adoption Act 1947, or from 1952 when Elizabeth II became "Queen of New Zealand"? For the time being, I have removed reference to a "first monarch" and "formation" from the infobox, as is the case on monarchy of Canada. I realise that the infobox is now rather bare of information, so I would appreciate some input. --Hazhk (talk) 16:06, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
I can't find any reference to this anywhere, but it's all over the references. It should be removed --HuttValley (talk) 07:32, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
The sentence "...the authority for these acts stems from the New Zealand populace" is an unverified claim. It appears to contradict the previous sentence. (All executive authority is vested in the monarch and her assent is required for parliament to enact laws and for letters patent and Orders in Council to have legal effect.) The current reference to page 3 of the Cabinet Manual 2017 is to the section titled "The underlying principle: Democracy" which explains how the convention of responsible government works (i.e. "The Queen reigns... but the government rules... ...so long as it has the support of the House of Representatives.") At no point does the cited page state that the Sovereign's authority to act stems from the New Zealand people. The cited page states that the government, appointed by the Sovereign (or Governor-General), has the authority to govern on the basis that it is democratically elected.
A more accurate sentence would begin "However, the exercise of the Queen's authority is subject to the conventional stipulations of constitutional monarchy," which reflects what the Cabinet Manual actually states. --LJ Holden 02:01, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
This statement is historically inaccurate. New Zealand nationalism played no part in the development of the Statute of Westminster or any other changes until at least the Queen's title becoming solely "Queen of New Zealand" in 1973. It is much more accurate to state that New Zealand's constitutional evolution was a product of changes throughout the British Empire and Commonwealth. There was not a deliberate policy of patriation until the 1970s. --LJ Holden 09:56, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
I see this has reappeared... can we please revert back to the "shared" statement agreed to previously? --LJ Holden 10:37, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Mention should be made of the suggestion by Canadian monarchists that New Zealand should have its own resident monarch. This is relevant because several monarchists have suggested it, and because opinion polls show that an overwhelming majority of New Zealanders want a head of state who resides permanently in New Zealand. The fact that they are Canadian is of little relevance. Potentially a majority of New Zealanders may support this suggestion. There is a good but deceptive source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iliketoeatbeansalot (talk • contribs) 20:30, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Prompted by the GA nomination I had a quick look at part of the article and have a couple of suggestions:
a couple of cites doe not lead anywhere and need to be fixed (see Category:Harv and Sfn multiple-target errors):
Renata (talk) 04:17, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Chipmunkdavis (talk · contribs) 09:14, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I will be reviewing this article for GA. Apologies that this page had to wait so long for a reviewer. A few initial points. The lead has a few sources not used elsewhere in the article, which often indicates information present only in the lead. Comparing the lead to the table of content, there are some topics that seem important enough to have warranted their own section/subsection in the article, but are not mentioned in the lead. There are a few places which are clearly unsourced, such as paragraphs ending without sources and the List of Monarchs section. There are a few harvref errors that should be addressed. Best, CMD (talk) 09:14, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi Hazhk, I'm afraid I think this article is a fair bit from passing at the moment. In addition to the above points, looking closer at the sourcing (criteria 2b, 2c) I found a number of other issues. Some examples: the first paragraph of the titles section goes to a primary source without any of the interpretation, and the first sentence of the second paragraph seems not to reflect a conclusion within that source. Much of the first succession paragraph doesn't appear supported by the cited sources. The second appears only to have a single primary source. The Finances section seems a bit outdated and only based on competing claims of two campaign groups. The first sentence of Representation of the State doesn't seem supported by its source. There are also a couple of shortrefs that don't lead anywhere (Elizabeth II 1983 and Elizabeth II 1990), and Cox, Noel (2008) isn't used. On criteria 1b, in addition to the lead items mentioned above, there are quite a few short paragraphs and sections throughout the article.
The prose (1a) is decent and consistent throughout, with no copyright issues found (2d). The article is focused on the topic (3b). In terms of breadth (3a), the article seems complete as well, comparing favourably against Monarchy of the United Kingdom (the only "Monarchy of X" FA, albeit one likely to go to FAR soon). The article is stable (5), and appears to be broadly neutral (4). Files are either freely licenced or in one case is a low resolution image with an applicable non-free-use tag. Overall, this is a decent article, but the sourcing concerns are as such that I believe it would take longer than a week to deal with them. I do hope that work continues on this article, and as noted before the only article in this category with reviewed status may lose it soon. There appear to be a few useful books with accessible google previews, eg. [1][2] which would help cover some of the areas that seem to lack sourcing and/or mostly use primary sources. Please feel free to message me for further discussion on the article in the future. Best regards, CMD (talk) 10:35, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:39, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Recommend the "List of monarchs" section be slimmed down, withe creation of a separate article called List of New Zealand monarchs. We've precedents for such articles, with List of British monarchs & List of Canadian monarchs, etc. GoodDay (talk) 03:05, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
This list was restored in the form of a plain list of the monarchs who reigned over New Zealand. I don't think it's helpful to attempt to divide this list into 'British Crown' and 'New Zealand Crown'; diving George VI's reign into two sections is completely original research – it is notional and does not reflect constitutional reality. --Hazhk (talk) 01:59, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility/Archive 10#RFC: Which date did Charles III's reign begin, in Oceania? StAnselm (talk) 21:23, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
The template used looks less than ideal to me with room for a rewrite. There is too much detail squeezed in amounting to clutter. And, I think it is usual and probably correct for the dates of their reign to be be under the monarchs name with their birth and death put somewhere else. The list is about them as monarchs not as persons. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 07:15, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Why is the Maori term in the infobox, twice? There should be a good reason why the English version alone is inadequate, a reason to show why a reader needs to know the Maori term in order to fully understand the English term. Yes, you are right, no such reason exists. It's an official language I hear some people cry out. So what? Compare the Monarchy of Canada article. No French, an official language, in the infobox. Why not? Perhaps because it is an English language article? Lest there be any doubt, unlike Maori in New Zealand, French in Canada is spoken as a first language by a high percentage of the population. I repeat, why in the Maori term in the infobox? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:22, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes, a translation is used twice, not the same translation. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes states "...the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article (an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored, with exceptions noted below). The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance." I think this can apply to both translations. In neither case is the Maori translation a key feature of the main article and a reader has absolutely no need to see the Maori translation to get a grasp of the key points of the article. The translations are not part of a summary of the article but rather unnecessary additions, which weakens the effect of the infobox. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 22:36, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes, although I still lean to not having any translations, I suppose there is a stronger case for Te Kīngi o Aotearoa. To me this is a good example of reaching the point where legally imposed, or minority noise making, with regard to promoting Maori culture in all its guises, will at some point reach the level where it becomes unreasonable to say it is an artificially used and does not reflect what is common in society. The Maori name for the monarch might by now be close to reaching that point whereas his name in Maori has not. If that observation of mine is correct, it adds weight to using a case by case approach to using the Maori word in any other context, laborious though that might be. It does look very much as though we have a default position of anyone can use the Maori word for anything if it has only the slimmest of connection to Maori culture. But, I am going off topic... Roger 8 Roger (talk) 06:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi @Roger 8 Roger:, I was wondering if you might expand on some recent edit reverts. Evidently you disagree with the style of using the titles of prime ministers in this article if they did not hold that title at the time of their premiership. Personally, I agree with you, although I also think the style currently used in this article is hardly the end of the world. Nonetheless, it seems rather anarchic to remove Geoffrey Palmer’s title and then leave the others with theirs. Would it not be better for the entire article to follow a single style, either with or without titles, rather than leave it in an inconsistent state? In an effort to avoid an edit war, I was wondering if you might elaborate on why you prefer this article with an inconsistent use of titles and don't want to remove the others titles? I really don’t think it is particularly presumptuous to suggest that all with titles or all without are the only reasonable options? Cheers, Stanley Bannerman (talk) 08:45, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
:Consistency is best. Let all PMs have their honourific mentioned the first time. Drop it thereafter. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
I am just wondering of we should put British summer time at the end of the date of succession? As King Charles ascended to the throne at 2am New Zealand time? Dbainsford (talk) 06:48, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
An RFC was held on this matter, months ago. GoodDay (talk) 22:54, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
It's a little confusing. In the list of monarchs Queen Victoria's reign is given to have begun 6 February 1840 but in the text we can read that British sovereignty wasn't established until 21 May 1840. So, what is the correct date to list here? Oleryhlolsson (talk) 22:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
This sentence in the title section is not correct: "Since the passage of the Royal Titles Act 1974, the monarch's title in New Zealand is presently Charles the Third, By the Grace of God King of New Zealand and of His Other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith."
The Royal Titles Act 1974 specifies Queen Elizabeth II's title and will be amended to specify King Charles III's title but it hasn't yet. He has this title provisionally as explained in this Cabinet paper: https://www.dpmc.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2022-10/CAB-22-SUB-0381-pr-proclamation-accession-new-sovereign.pdf BroadArrow (talk) 02:57, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
So, just sorta putting this out there as a straw poll, but would it be better if we use this photo File:Prince Charles in Aotearoa (cropped).jpg for the infobox in this specific article, seeing as how its the official portrait issed for Charles by the NZ Government (per here). Use of official portraits would be somewhat consistent with articles like Governor-General of New Zealand and would provide a bit more stability in updating the image as the years go on (as opposed to just swapping out the newest image when available). Leventio (talk) 03:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)