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Hey, Infsai. Thank you for your work on the Billie articles. About our slight conflict: there's precedent on Wikipedia (e.g. "Kill the Lights") for not confounding a music video with a single release. Correlation does not imply causation: just because a video is associated with a marketing strategy for a single, it does not mean we should treat like so.
Despite the reliability of the sources you indicate, like Dazed and NME, we can't simply take their word for it — the journalists are probably just going with the idea that the video is a signal for a fleshed-out single release. If that is the case, we'll see it going for adds on the radio, released separately from the Happier Than Ever LP on streaming services, or on a physical format; until it materialises, however, we should classify it as an album track. Prism (talk) 17:40, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Prism. At WP:SINGLE?, there is no mention of NME or Dazed as reliable sources for a single release. If Billboard or Official Charts Company said it if were a single, that would be more reliable according to the singles criteria. A music video doesn’t clarify a single release, and therefore is a promotional tool. Thanks! PopLizard86427 (talk) 21:39, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Prism: From one hand, you're right and I was even deleting any edit that suggested "Male Fantasy" as a single before. But after few days, Dazed, NME, and Teen Vogue suddenly called it a single. It's really messy I know and I don't know what to do with it besides waiting since it might still be released to radio after Christmas season will be over. infsai (talkie? UwU) 22:54, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Infsai: Your work so far has been applaudable and I am glad we ultimately found mutual ground on the lead order, while keeping the sources instead of liner notes for credits is fine since they are reliable ones anyway. A good amount of sections remaining; let's hope this review continues its current course! --K. Peake09:25, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Kyle Peake: Thank you! I try to make every next article better than the last one, so I thought it'd be a good time to also try review someone's article (preferably "Deeper and Deeper"), but with so many small details I miss I don't think it's a good idea. Sorry for offtop hah. infsai (talkie? UwU) 17:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"songwriter Billie Eilish which concludes her second studio album" → "songwriter Billie Eilish, included as the final track on her second studio album,"
The last cut part should be the second sentence of the first para instead, while the release date should be the fourth (keeping music video in the last para and genre/writing as the second sentence here)
"breakup ballad was written by" → "breakup ballad, it was written by" with the pipe
"also produced the track." → "also handled the production."
"The song verses touches on" → "The verses touch on"
"in music industry, while in the chorus the artist" → "in the music industry, while in the chorus, the singer" with the pipe
"It was one of the" → "The song was one of the" but is the last part really sourced?
"was met with a widespread praise from" → "received widespread praise from" plus add what the critics highlighted before the fan part
""Male Fantasy" was released on" → "The song was released on"
Reword the music video sentence to mentioning that it premiered simultaneously with the single release, as the latter part will have been moved in the new order
"associates with the track" → "associates with the song"
"It was album's the least commercially" → ""Male Fantasy" was Happier Than Ever's least commercially" plus make this the first sentence of the last para instead
Specify how low the peaks were, i.e within top 100, plus remove Sweden and mention US was on Bubbling Under Hot 100 Singles4
Y Done. Firstly I was quite opposed to your idea for the new order, but after some time I reworked it to somehow match what you've suggested. And yes, [7] is the source for the sentence you asked. infsai (talkie? UwU) 01:10, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Background and release
Shouldn't you add the liner notes as a source for the piano because the section does not mention it and when its not personnel, you should use them directly as a source?
"by Billie Eilish and Finneas O'Connell," → "by Eilish and Finneas O'Connell," with the wikilink
Wouldn't it be more reliable to cite liner notes for writing and production credits?
"for this track, came up after the singer had conversations" → "for the track was formed by the singer after she had a conversation"
"to discuss and it can "make" → "to discuss and can "make"
"she elaborated that she" → "Eilish opened up that she"
[6] should be invoked after the second sentence of the second para too because it is the only source used for that
"since she thinks that "nothing" → "expressing that "nothing" but the source uses angry note at the end of the nothing part, unless she says "bad note" in the YouTube video?
"also enclosed, that this song" → "also enclosed that the song"
"and that due to her" → "and as a result of her"
"she finds this track to be" → "she finds it to be"
"It has been later picked as the" → "The song was released as the"
Remove the music video release part from here, as that only belongs in the appropriate section
Y Done. I used other sources for writing and production credits, since well, they exist simply. :v I thought it be even better this way, to include them as sources for this. infsai (talkie? UwU) 01:10, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Music and lyrics
""Male Fantasy" is an acoustic," → "Musically, "Male Fantasy" is an acoustic," with the pipe
Pipe music critics to Music journalism, as that is the correct article for these critics
Remove wikilink and italicisation for Uproxx
"while in the article published on Clash, the single has been described" → "while Robin Murray from Clash described the song" because the source mentions the author; check the bottom 1
"Instead he dubbed it" → "To the contrary, he dubbed the song"
the Daily Telegraph → The Daily Telegraph per MOS:THECAPS on titles of works
"and opinied that they are" → "and opined that they are"
"across as a victim."" → "across as a victim"."
"of the album."" → "of the album"."
"opinied that the song is" → "opined that the song is"
"and modern womanhood."" → "and modern womanhood"."
the Ringer → The Ringer, per the website's stylization
"and described his wish for" → "and mentioned his wish that"
Remove "as this single" at the end of the sentence because you already mentioned the stripped down comment is referencing the song
the A.V. Club → The A.V. Club
"were fond of it, with the former called it "masterful"," → "being fond of it; the former noted a "masterful closer"," per relevance
Chorus.fm should not be italicised and pipe to AbsolutePunk
You should mention what Insider liked about the song after them praising the singer's intentions, as otherwise the review seems negative when this is not the case; do the same for Chorus.fm
@Kyle Peake: I applied to every note you gave me, with exception of uDiscover Music. According to the discussion you linked, uDiscover Music can be used sparingly, for this article it is only used for opinions and just stating things can be observed in the music video, usually paired with the other source. Thus I did not remove any of those references, and I don't think we should. Waiting for the reply! :) infsai (talkie? UwU) 16:56, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Infsai I beg to differ since the discussion is acknowledging it being used sparingly, but in this article you are using it for reviews of the video and a performance, which meets the unreliability standard listed there. In the given context, it is unreliable for music video description because this can be biased too and the author's background does not show any reputable history as a journalist. Your effort is much appreciated though and thank you for working hard on implementing my suggestions! --K. Peake19:50, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Infsai You forgot to move the last cut and release info for the new order of the lead, missed changing Eilish to Billie Eilish in the body while wikilinking Finneas O'Connell, there was no source(s) added for the chorus' final line and the one as following it, not all of the MOS:QUOTE instances were resolved, the issues in the "melancholy and ethereal" quote area were not fixed and no sourcing was added for excitement among her fans about the mv. --K. Peake08:56, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kyle Peake Ok, fixed those! The part where Eilish asks "Want me to sing here?" is sourced in [38], I added "after singing 'I know I should, but I could never hate you'" part, so the reader would get an idea where this quote is coming from. Fans' excitement is sourced in [66]: "The video is set to premiere at 17:00 GMT today (December 6th) with a slew of fans already sharing their excitement in the comments section as they await the song going live." infsai (talkie? UwU) 09:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
I'm not entirely sure if either of these hooks are interesting enough for a DYK. The alternative is more interesting than the first but I'm wondering if there are another facts about the article to suggest? GamerPro6401:50, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Left the nominator a message on March 31st and gave them a week to respond. If they are unable to return to this nomination by April 7th the nomination could be marked for closure as unsuccessful. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:14, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fine interesting GA, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. The hook leaves completely open what the bolded thing is, but obviously that is accepted for some topics. It certainly raises curiosity. - In the lead, there's his phrase "due to feeling like credits", what does that mean? - Having been picked for a final track might be a more factual thing to say, - the title seems catchy enough by itself ;) - I'd also be open for a hook about "how "stupid and unrealistic" pornography is". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:21, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(for explanation: for us foreigners who don't know the singer, Billie and Billy are so similar that it would not be necessarily recognized as a women's name) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:07, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]