This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
Pjacobi asked about some details on him in Hungarian. Here you are. I try to translate some info back to the article but not right now.
--grin ✎ 18:38, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)
de:User:Juro has done a fine job of extending the bio in german (de:Josef Maximilian Petzval), using sources above and sources in Slovak. I plan to do the translation to en, but it will take some time. If anybody is interested in starting the translation, don't hesitate. Pjacobi 09:09, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Jozef Maximilián Petzval (also Josef Maximilian Petzval and Petzvál József Miksa) (6 January 1807 — 17 September 1891)
Petzval was born in Spišská Belá (German: Zipser Bela, Hungarian: Szepesbéla), Kingdom of Hungary (now in Slovakia), he died in Vienna, Austria. He was an ethnic Slovak, but due to his strong ties to Budapest, he is often counted as Hungarian. In what way was he slovak? No serious source says so. Father was probably Moravian, but that is not slovak. Finnish are related to hungarians but are not hungarians. Sibelius is NOT a hungarian composer!Sibelius is a Finno-ugrian composer, but not a hungarian. What is your logical problem? What definitely matters is that Petzval considered himself hungarian. Sibelius considered himself finnish. Am I wrong? Petzval studied and later lectured at the University of Pest (part of the later Budapest). In 1837 he accepted a chair of mathematics at the University of Vienna.
Petzval is most well known for the construction of the Petzval portrait lens, an optical design still in use 150 years after its invention. He did extensive work on aberration in optical systems, some key topics were later named after him:
In mathematics he worked on applications of the Laplace transform.
In 1957, the Joseph Petzval Award was founded for his memory in Hungary, to award achievements in optics, acoustics, film and video technology, precision mechanics, photochemistry, and theatre technology. There exists a Joseph Petzval Medal as well.
Hi! I'm writing the hungarian version of the Joseph Petzval site, its here. The details what I found are from here, and some other sources, mainly what I learned in school abt him. Of course, as almost everybody who born within the borders of the former Kingdom of Hungary, the ethnic origin is the first question.
Why is this Slovak and Slovak and again Slovak? He wasn't born in Slovakia, he wasn't Slovakian citizen and he wasn't even German. He clearly defined himself as ethnically Hugarian. Though his family had German origins(and not Slovakian..). Or if the current slovakian pals don't agree that there was Hungarian Kingdom in that time look at Petzval as a part of the Hungarian minority:) in Slovakia, the end is the same: he was Hungarian. There are clear evidences near his ethnic origin, and there are mentions, critical comments before mine but i've seen no response for those. So when there will be responses, we can continue the discussion. Basically you are rigth. According to origin he was probably of moravian origin (Pecival) on his fathers side and zipser-german (partially magyarized) on his mothers side. He considered himself hungarian and that was his own choice and must matter, at least somehow. Probably he had mixed magyar-german-slav origins. That is the rule with hungarians. Hungarians are mixed people. Petöfi was also of mixed origins: slovak-serb-german-magyar. Even Liszt seems to have been mixed magyar-german-slav. Zrinyi was mixed croat-magyar (and some german, italian etc). Most hungarians are not clear about this themselves. . What about non-hungarians then! Not to mention individuals who are anti-hungarian in sentiment and tries to de-hungarize everything hungarian. It is a kind of strange schizofrenoid ethno-racism. László of Stockholm (a mixed but not totally mixed-up hungarian person) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.141.80 (talk) 22:09, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Hungary. Which virtually means that Hungarians deliberately work on stealing other nation's history and famous people in order to satisfy their natural instinct of dominance no matter how this affects anybody unhappy enough to stay in their way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nton (talk • contribs) 12:10, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I asked for references about his ethnicity. Even Petzwal himself thought he was Hungarian but let's see if there is anything which underpins that he wasn't Hungarian. According to Kalló Péter his colleague, Petzval said about himself that he was the "devoted son of the Hungarian homeland". Why is he consideed czech?? Father from Moravia NOT Bohemia. Mother zipser-german, ergo, hungarian-german! All Zipser-germans were to some degree magyarized. László of Stockholm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.142.59 (talk) 18:35, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
LOL. You ppl are funny :-) Slovakians slovakize, Romanians romanianize everthing wich they can about old Hungary's history/culture/ppl, no matter how big lie is it.
Hungarians are tend to look at everthing and everybody as a Hungarian, who or who's parents/relatives spoke the language. :-) LOL
PETZVAL WAS CZECH-GERMAN, but more likely of German heritage. Petzval is not a slavic name. (Petzval is a germanized slavic name! Pecival! and his father had slavic names and was from Moravia, ergo not Bohemia and therefore not Czech! and without doubt not slovakian) Either his mother's: Kreutzmann. Szepes was that time absolute predominantly german inhabited. LOL, you creepy nationalists. :))) --91.120.92.221 10:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
RE: Just for your information: He was originally Pecival, what means "the lazy". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.87.130.3 (talk) 08:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Zips was not mostly German durring the life of Petzval: 93.214 (57.1%) szlovák 44.958 (27.5%) német 17.518 (10.7%) ruszin 4.999 (3.1%) magyar 2.602 egyéb
His father was not Czech or German. He was Slovakian of Moravian origin. See my lower comment about assimilation in western slavic countries. Its nationalistic Hungarian propaganda that Zips was mostly German. In towns were lot of germans but not majority, and later were towns Magyarized. Comitatuses with majority or relative majority of Slovaks in 19th century were:
Trenčianska Oravská Turčianska Liptovská Zvolenská Prešporská Nitrianska Tekovská Hontianska Novohradská Gemerská Spišská Šarišská Abovská Zemplínka
Look census from 1880 and it was after few decades of Magyarization. In census 1891 changed ethnical composition only in Zemplen: 141 188 (47,2%) magyar 107 477 (35,9%) szlovák 31 036 (10,4%) ruszin 15 511 (5,2%) német
Because of magyarization, espetialy in southern part. It was magyarized ethnic Slovak South Zemplin island:
Slovak villages and towns: Sátoraljaújhely (Nová mesto pod Šiatrom), Nižný Rednec (Alsóregmec), Füzér, Forró, Malá Huta (Kisshuta), Veľká Huta (Nagyhuta), Stará Huta (Óhuta), Vágáshuta. In Sátoraljaújhely were Slovaks and Jews Magyarized after 1867 so ethnical compostion was changed (Siracky, 1980). 1891 only 7 % of Slovaks (Pallas nagy lexikona 1897).
--Samofi (talk) 10:54, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm a New Zealander and far removed from all of this "Hungarian, German, Slovac" rubbish. The main historical point, that seems to be lost in this argument, is that Petzval was not only brilliant, but RIPPED-OFF by history, which credits the German Seidel with the first invention of third order aberrations, and the Hungarian Buchdahl with the development of high-order aberration coefficients used for optical design. As can be seen in my upcoming paper (www.spie.org, search on papers by "Rakich" after August 2007) there exists sufficient proof in already publiushed work by Petzval and others that Petzval deserves credit for being the first to define third order aberration coefficients in terms of system constructional parameters, as well as high-orders of aberration. To my mind the Hungarians, Slovaks, Austrians and Germans can join the rest of the World in appreciating the brilliance of this individual, and their contributions to the environment that shaped him. Or you could have a war over it...
Regards, Andrew Rakich
(Karpaten1 (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2008 (UTC)) Andrew, One's family is an important part of one's identity. Virtually all biographical articles try to be precise about the citizenship and nationality (ethnicity) of a person. Petzval is seen as a ethnic German who became a Magyar (as so many intellectuals then), e.g. Karpatendeutsches Biographisches Lexikon, p. 248. Zipser Bela, where my mother's ancestors lived from the middle ages to World War II, was in 1800 still inhabited overwhelmingly by ethnic Germans. There is no census data for the early 1800s, but as late as 1880, after the influx of Slovaks and the emigration of many Germans, Germans were still 72.8% of the city. It is difficult to believe (though not 100% impossible) that his father might have been an immigrant Czech, but if he was a teacher, he must have assimilated quickly to the local German culture. His wife is, at least from her name, probably not Slovak. Juro should present definite proof here. Many ethnic Magyars, Germans and Ruthenes from today's Slovakia are rebaptized as Slovaks nowadays, it is as bothersome as any ethnic misappropriation.
(Karpaten1 (talk) 15:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)) I checked on Googlebooks. Prof. Josef Maria Eder from the University of Vienna knew Petzval personally and discussed his life briefly in his Geschichte der Photographie, 3rd edition, Halle (Germany), Verlag von Wilhelm Knapp, 1905, p. 220-221, where he notes "Petzval selbst, unter Betonung der Tatsache, dass er von deutschen Eltern geboren sei..." confirmed his birth date of January 6, which is the same as his 2 brothers', a coincidence that was doubted for a while. For our case here, Petzval himself stressed that he was born of (ethnic) German parents. Eder also referred to the detailed study of Petzval's youth in Ermenyi's Petzval's Leben und Verdienste,(2 ed), Halle, 1903.
Wizzard, do you have any sources not written in slovak by slovak scholars which say he was slovak? According to reliable, english, third-party sources he was Hungarian of German origin:[1][2][3] And please stop faking informations![1]B@xter 9 10:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
((cite book))
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
here source what claims his slovak origin: http://books.google.com/books?id=jPlTAAAAMAAJ&q=petzval+slovak&dq=petzval+slovak&hl=sk&cd=2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.128.181.9 (talk) 14:32, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Aus der Zips stammten zwei bedeutende Persönlichkeiten: Otto Balthasar Petzval (1809-89) und sein Bruder Joseph Max Petzval (1807-71), Söhne eines deutschen...which support his German origin, but since this is the English wikipedia I added only the neutral English ones.--B@xter9 17:53, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Information courtesy of The MacTutor History of Mathematics archive University of St Andrews, Scotland Department of Mathematics and Statistics : John J O'Connor and Edmund F Robertson
[2] October 2012 (UTC)
Their entry:
Józeph Miksa Petzval
Born: 6 Jan 1807 in Spisska Bela, Hungary (now in Slovakia) Died: 17 Sept 1891 in Vienna, Austria
There are different versions of Józeph Petzval's name, and, in addition to the one given here, he is often known as Jozef Maximilian Petzval. While giving different versions, let us also remark that the town of his birth is Spisska Bela which is sometimes written as Szepesbéla. It was in Hungary when Petzval was born there but it is now in Slovakia." RPSM (talk) 11:22, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
More dual nationalities here: [[3]] "Petzval was born to German parents, but always considered himself Hungarian" RPSM (talk) 11:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
I find the current sentence including: " Hungarian[1][2][3][4] / Slovak[5][6][page needed] " quite detrimental to the readability of the introduction. Since it seems to be such a complicated issuse it should not be discussed in the introduction. Better leave it out completely. Instead we could have an extra paragraph named for example "Ethnicity", which would go like something along the lines of: "While Petzval's ethnic origin is a matter of dispute between Hungarian [sources], Slovak [sources], ... add whatever others you like to name ... and German [sources], he considered himself to be a Hungarian of German descent. [Source as cited above: Josef Maria Eder: "Geschichte der Photographie"]" What dou you think? --BjKa (talk) 15:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Did a quick cleanup. What seems to be a minor point (Ethnicity and name) should not be the first section, it should be a footnote. Also an argument amongst editors is not necessarily a verifiable argument. "Pecival ... means: lazy"???? Source? Rm remainder of section (including apparent tit for tat ethnicity warring) here to talk. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 15:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
The article still reads like a translation from another language, and needs further cleanup. EEye (talk) 13:59, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Joseph Petzval. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
((dead link))
tag to http://www.info.omikk.bme.hu/Archivum/magyarok/htm/petzvaljozsefrov.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:04, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Joseph Petzval. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)