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Hardly, they took over in 2004.
I changed the article to say that John was shouting, but my edit was reverted. I think this is a critically important detail - the reason this episode was controversial and received so much press coverage was precisely because John lost his temper and shouted at the other man. To call it "arguing" completely loses this very important detail - reporters argue with people all the time without it being newsworthy.
he was shouting but so was davis, john sweeney was just louder —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.201.62.36 (talk) 19:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Useful links:
http://www.bjr.org.uk/data/2005/no4_sweeney.htm - "Bucking the system", John Sweeney writing for British Journalism Review Vol. 16, No. 4, 2005, pages 47-53 concerning the Sally Clark / Roy Meadow case.
--Swillison 11:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Have read up on the Scientology documentary, Sweeny was apparently 'bull baited' to provoke a reaction, which obviously worked. Here is an example of this technnique in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y (Pretty sure this isnt hugley relevant, but is of vague interest to this case) Chrisp7 01:00, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
This has actually changed to http://www DOT freedommag DOT org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-desperate-lies.html but the freedommag site is a blocked site on Wikipedia (why?) so I cannot add the correct link, not even here!! 13:53, 7 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnalexwood (talk • contribs) Johnalexwood (talk) 13:56, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Ryan1727 19:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The article seems entirely neutral, it's describing the events as they occured, it's not biased to either side. ≈ Maurauth (09F9) 10:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Removed smear campaign information - this made the article unfairly balanced towards smear. In addition the information removed was added by a non registered member. Chrisp7 03:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm.. it does seem relevant to the article that he was successfully sued for criminal libel, and if it's referenced I don't see a problem with including it. If the argument is that it makes him look bad, that's not our concern, I think. --Ty580 06:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't find this article at all neutral because I uploaded facts recently with sources and they were promptly removed from the page. In my opinion this page is here as a propaganda tool to make Scientology look like a brain washing cult. If I were to add something in favor of John Sweeney it would not be altered, or if I added something slamming Scientology it would also not be altered. I added that john Sweeney’s Panorama bit violated 153 BBC guidelines and it was promptly removed. That statement is negative but it isn't bias. It was removed because this article is meant to brain wash people into believing that Scientology is a brain washing cult. Brain washing in itself can be a bias term used to slander so Ill be more specific and define exactly what the term means here in this sense. Brain washing is a method of robbing someone of self determinism to implant your determinism by getting them to identify beyond reason. The identify beyond reason is the part you need to grasp. You see it all the time. A little mouse comes running through the kitchen and your mother knocks down the whole room trying to jump onto the table. To you and me its is a little mouse, that’s reason, to her it's a ferocious beast come to eat her, that’s identify. So to identify beyond reason you have to suppress someone’s ability to reason and give them something to identify with like cute little mouse’s = death. How would you go about this? Psychiatry uses drugs and straight jackets. Basically you have to ask what I have to do to beat this self determined individual into apathy so that all he can ever do is obey. What do you think it would take to achieve this? Man is very rebellious in his nature and it would take a considerably bit more than it would take lets say a horse or a dog. Now let’s say that you have this man bent on some purpose other than his after you have drugged him and beat him into submission, what would you say his intelligence is? Probably not very high as he can only identify and not reason. Brain washing has been around for thousands of years. It was used in the Middle East and is probably where it originated. Then they were called assisans. Basically what would happen is you a 17 year old pauper gets drugged with some opium and next thing you know you wake up in the middle of a castle or some such place with streams of milk and honey and a few dozen naked virgins who can’t seem to keep their hands off of you. Your there for a couple of days then they give you the sharpest dagger you've ever seen and tell you if you want to make it back into heaven you better go kill that "God Dammed King". You being this feeble looking 17 year old gets right past the kings guards in the through way and gladly cuts his head off knowing that your gonna get beamed right back up into heaven after his body guards gets done chopping you into bits. That’s one way of doing it. That’s still in use to this day. How do you convince a man to hijack a plane and fly it into a building let alone 2? That’s not a reasoning man. How many of yall know a Scientologist? If you know one then you know that they are not a bunch of feeble minded individuals that give their money to the church beyond reason. Ever get into an argument with one? They don't argue, just reason. Try to call me a brainwashed fool and Ill ask you to define brain washing and if you don’t know then your just brain washed into believing that what you believe is better than what I believe and that I should be proven wrong and stopped beyond all reason. Try looking at things for your self and stop believing what you hear or read in the news or in some blog. If I enter fact here and you delete it as soon as it is posted then it shows that you are a feeble minded fool bent on someone else’s ideas. Have your own purposes and ideas, look at things from your own perspective. Observe things for your self and stop believing what you’re expected to believe. Now on the other hand if you are bent on destroying Scientology’s good name and that is your purpose then good luck because you will need it. People have been trying to do just that for over 50 years. Basically all I’m saying is that anytime that there is someone trying to do good in the world you got 10 more people trying to bring him down. Scientology isn’t the only organization out there doing good in the world and dam sure isn’t the only group that is being attacked, we just know how and why people attack us.Ryan1727 20:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Whatever you say, Mr Scientologist :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.200.214 (talk) 15:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, chill the beans love! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 (talk) 08:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
The article currently states Video footage of the incident that some believe to be doctored[3] was distributed on YouTube[4] . Unless I'm missing something, the reference doesn't state that the video was doctored. --Duk 07:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
... are we sure these books are by this John Sweeney? Smee 09:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
... because of what some have referred to above as a "smear campaign", against a living person, which would be against WP:BLP. Smee 11:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
http://www.projectklebnikov.org/members/sweeney.html lists some awards won by John Sweeney; these should be included in the article. --Swillison 13:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems we'd be including criticism from one side and not the other to quote the media referring to the Scientology response clip as an "attack video," but to not quote the media calling Sweeney's actions a "full-fledged meltdown" (Anderson Cooper).[1]--Ty580 20:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
On 14th May 2007, an episode titled Scientology and Me was broadcast. It was written and presented by the Journalist John Sweeney showing how the Church reacted to his investigations. Prior to its broadcast video footage filmed by the Church of Scientology was released on YouTube[1] and distributed own "counter-documentary" DVD to lobby against, in its view, a one-sided view of the Church. [2] The clip showed Mr. Sweeney losing his temper with Scientologist representative Tommy Davis during a visit to the Church's anti-psychiatry exhibit, "Industry of Death". In response the BBC aired their own recording of the incident.[3] The BBC labeled the leaked video clips as "attack videos" and others say they were produced to discredit Mr.Sweeney and the documentary [4] however John Sweeney, according to Sandy Smith, editor of Panorama, "completely lost it in a way that I don't condone." Smith was "very disappointed with John, and he's very disappointed."[5] Mr. Sweeney says that this was a result of a weeklong campaign of harassment against himself and his family by Davis and the Church. [6] The edition attracted Panorama's highest audience of the current series so far.[7] Chrisp7 21:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
References
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How about removing the whole "Controversy" section? As it is about half the text of the article is about 2 small incidents in his whole life and career. Steve Dufour 05:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The coverage of the actual Panorama episode itself is pretty weak. The main topic of the episode was how Scientology was keeping track of the team trying to make it - through following them, visiting their hotel, discrediting their witnesses and so on. This is hardly touched on at all, but is very relevant to understanding John's outburst (which does receive coverage). --Swillison 12:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Is there a good reason why this article is in the Scientology portal? He was a well respected journalist before that incident - it seems that listing him in this group unnecessarily highlights a single controversial piece of his.--Vince | Talk 07:07, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
JS and the BBC have been heavily criticised by the London School of Eonomics for deception and endangering students on a trip to North Korea.
Key points:
- JS accompanied a group of LSE students on a trip to North Korea.
- The students were told 'a journalist' would be accompanying them. In fact it was an undercover team of three people, including JS.
- The LSE was not told anything about it (the trip was made by LSE students but not organised by the LSE).
- JS posed as a professor at the LSE, a deception: he has no position at the LSE (although he did attend it as a student many years ago).
- Had the deception been discovered the whole party could have been arrested - the deception put the students at risk without their knowledge or consent.
Sources: many UK newspapers / reports on Sunday 14th April 2013.
E.g.
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22140716 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.153.195 (talk) 12:08, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
"Sweeney also appeared to lose it in January 2009 when being interviewed on Radio 4 about the Tom Cruise film Valkyrie.[16]" Is this a joke insertion? The above interview was clearly parodying his previous outburst with Tommy Davies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Themadhair (talk • contribs) 17:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
I have just added a link to the original shouting video which surprisingly wasn't already there (did I miss it)? I want to add a 'viral video' or 'internet meme' category to this as it was a big news story for a good week or so. But I suppose to do that, the video itself would have to have an entry in WP. I would like to create a page for it - what do you think? Johnalexwood (talk) 13:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I was reading about a confrontation between Mike Rinder and some Scientologists in Clearwater, and he mentions that he was on the phone doing an interview with Sweeny and the confrontation had been recorded. http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/miscavige-meltdown/ Is there any more information on any new project he's doing on Scientology? --Kaotac (talk) 04:57, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
What does Project Chanology have to do with John Sweeney? I don't see a direct connection between the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.222.255.58 (talk) 14:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Absent from article, which is unusual for a high profile TV figure.
John Sweeney (b. 1958) is married to Tomika Sweeney (neé Newson, b. 24th Oct 1982), another BBC employee (part-time) and employee of the LSE, who was one of the group that accompanied LSE students on an undercover trip to North Korea to make a documentary. He posed as an LSE academic during the trip, such deception being an imprison able offence in NK, without making the students aware of the xtn of the dception or that there were three people from the BBC on the trip. (The students were told there was in person). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.153.195 (talk) 12:40, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Did John Sweeney use a false passport to enter the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.31.64 (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I am not sure why Sweeney paid anything if the Barclay brothers lost. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.103.14.49 (talk) 16:58, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Sweeney (journalist)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
*9 citations, no images. Smee 09:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC). |
Last edited at 09:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Can anyone find a source for his place of birth? Danrok (talk) 13:38, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
I can't believe no one has mentioned this subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.30.159.137 (talk) 21:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
x is an alcoholicand
x is homophobic. Claims of homophobia, for instance, must be reliably sourced and presented in a balanced, dispassionate fashion, and must not be synthesized from sources. These policies are meant to be checks on the verifiability and quality of information on Wikipedia. It's an encyclopedia after all. Airplaneman ✈ 22:13, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
Well they have him on camera laughing about his intention to lie to the public about a 'metoo' story.. surely that's worth including as it utterly destroys his credibility? Irrefutable, really. Of course, for balance, we should also include his excuse. The readers can then decide for themselves if his excuse for saying "We're trying to do a gender, a sexual thing, against Tommy Robinson" (in reference to spinning a story about a non-sexual argument) makes any sense at all. People need to be aware of this in my opinion - not knowing that he definitively uses such tactics could put people at risk, and as such I think it deserves to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.78.171 (talk) 11:52, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
I'm also confident that telling a source what to repeat back to you so you can add it (on camera, irrefutable, easily sourced) is highly unethical behaviour that is well worth mentioning. Infact, it would be downright irresponsible not to include it. To be honest, it throws every piece of "journalism" he has ever done into question. His answers to Tommy's questions about his journalistic conduct were, for the most part, verifiable lies which only further creates the need to let people know about them. I can source all of these in a heartbeat, right down to the timestamps of the video. Not including such facts would be a stain upon Wikipedia's record of serving the public. Please either add this or allow somebody to ASAP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.78.171 (talk) 13:33, 27 February 2019 (UTC) --
This was removed from the main article for violating WP:NPOV, we can only specualte as to the real reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNd2bvLvyk4
Tachyonhorse (talk) 00:29, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Indeed. Why the good Wikipedia editors aren't allowing this reliable, verifiable, well-sourced and relevant information to be included is beyond me. Why is wikipedia not acting in a neutral manner on this? Casts doubt over the whole site should they continue to behave in such a partisan fashion. Should the public not be allowed to access this information, Wikipedia can certainly wave goodbye to any future donations from myself and many others who donate that I know. I am currently feeling a bit disgusted that I have given the site money in the past, if they are so devoid of integrity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.78.171 (talk) 22:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
References
I have read a German press article (T-Online), an interview with Sweeney about his new book: https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/ausland/id_92355698/suechtiger-im-kreml-putin-wird-nicht-mehr-lange-unter-uns-weilen-.html notable quotations from there:
Does anyone know the original en title of "Der Killer im Kreml"? I think it should be added, thank you in advance. --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 16:53, 21 July 2022 (UTC)