This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph of symbolic landing strips and Thitam Goiset be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in Vanuatu may be able to help! The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Could somebody tell me why there is a swiss flag next to that US-flag? Is it connected to that cargo-cult, and if yes: how? Thanks!
The 2nd paragraph states: "The name John Frum is sometimes considered a corruption of "John from (America)"" the 5th paragraph ends: "The name "John Frum" is possibly derived from World War II GIs introducing themselves to the locals as "John from America"" this seems a bit double.
Vanuatu hasn't been called New Hebrides for 24 years, as far as I know. Is it necessary to keep this archaism?
There's a lot of unexplained details here. For example, who exactly is "Rushfeld"? - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 23:55, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
I've just reverted this article because the previous version seemed to be a Copyright violation. Much of the article seems to have been taken wholesale from this website. Please feel free to update the formatting and content with material from later revisions, but please make sure material is not taken directly from this website. The Jade Knight 21:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I just was about to let people know this had large sections of copyrighted material lifted from http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/westoc/jonfrum.html, but it appears this was already noted almost 2 YEARS ago. If no one is coming forth to re-write, is it appropriate to delete passages, or add citations to the source? (The source is listed in the 'external links' section, but not references.)
66.41.0.174 (talk) 06:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Most articles I've seen on the subject give the name as "John Frum". Why is the article using "Jon"? See for example the recent and definitive Smithsonian article. Jeffr 17:34, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
It seems implausible to me that a small archapelago like Vanuatu could be the base of 300,000 US troops during WWII. Could this be more like 30,000?
Yes, islands elsewhere where there are well established transport links, industrial-scale food production, etc.. It's possible, but unlikely. How many US troops were there altogether in 1945? JackWasey
These islands host a population of 212,000 + tourists. 300,000 in dense, organized bases would not be a stretch at all. Hawaii, which is about 10% the landmass of Vanuatu, has a population of 1.2million, for comparison.66.41.0.174 (talk) 06:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
All the references I have read say that John Frum is white, and quote people from Vanuatu saying this. Need a reference to say that the majority of US servicemen IN VANUATU were black or white, if relevant to the article at all.
The last sentence in the second paragraph appears to be a completely spurious reference to the UK census. Does anyone know why it's there? Leftover from a previously removed section, perhaps? Bagheera 00:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I added the external link to their site, as well as the alternative spelling "John From". I do not know if the site is what it purports to be, but it certainly is pertinent!Lee 15:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I understand that nobody identified a person named John Frum, and he is considered to be fictional.
We were wondering if any researcher considered the word 'frum' as an onomatopoeia imitating airplane or any other machine sound? Richard Dawkins clearly associated cargo cults with airplanes deriving cargo.
And as the name 'John' is considered, weren't the natives baptised by missionaries? 'John' sounds very christian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.71.24.22 (talk) 12:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC).
Frum (or "Frumm" or "Frumme" or "Fromme") is a pretty common German or Jewish surname. I find it hard to believe that there were virtually no American Frums in the past, as this article claims. It seems pretty reasonable that an American soldier of German or Jewish origin could really have landed on the island.
Both BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3729715.stm and Damn Interesting http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=788 say John Frum was a native of the island, and his movement, essentially an anti-Christian one, predated the WWII invasion of American GIs , which drastically altered it. It is still undergoing change. Pawyilee 06:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Northerntoe (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)northerntoeNortherntoe (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
what if it was a lost package sent to a guy named John but part of the message was missing so it read
"To John From" or just "John From" and the spelling changed over time like in any long believed tradition.
It occurs to me that on a base full of GIs from different parts of the states that there would have been a lot of introductions along the lines of "I'm X from Y," with "Y" being the name of "X"'s home town. Since John is a common name among Americans, and the name of John's hometown would have been giberish to the natives, a native with a less than perfect command of English might naturally mistake "John from" as a name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.40.160.25 (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I was in the then-named New Hebrides in the 1960s, spending some time on Tanna, and recall the name being pronounced to rhyme with "mom" rather than "mum". It would not be surprising, I suppose, to find that it is and has been variously pronounced. Perhaps this has some significance to those hypothesizing about the name's origin. Tim Ross (talk) 11:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I believe there are inconsistencies concerning the date the religion was started.
"He is depicted as an American World War II serviceman, who will bring wealth and prosperity to the people if they follow him."
America did not enter WWII until 1941.
"The religion arose in the 1930s, when Vanuatu was known as the New Hebrides."
The religion could not have been started in the 1930's if it is based around an American WWII vet.
"On John Frum Day in February 2007, the John Frum Movement celebrated its 50th anniversary."
This indicates that the religion was started in 1957.
I agree. The dates are very suspicious. 131.130.16.17 (talk) 10:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
--96.13.96.236 (talk) 11:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
First, the article says this:
On John Frum Day in February 2007, the John Frum Movement celebrated its 50th anniversary. Chief Isaak Wan Nikiau, its leader, was quoted by the BBC from years past as saying that John Frum was "our God, our Jesus," and would eventually return.
In the next paragraph, it says this:
Chief Isaak Wan Nikiau, its leader, became a Christian in the 1990's and gave up his belief in the John Frum Movement.
Both are given references, but it doesn't seem likely that both are correct. Note that despite the wording in the wiki, the referenced BBC article does not say "from years past"; as written it implies the Chief said it during the 50 year anniversary.
— Prothonotar (talk) 08:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I recently added back in some information about the origins of John Frum that had been previously reverted some months back. Another editor reverted my change today, on the basis that the references were not reliable. I have added some additional reliable sources.
It is important to note that based on WP standards, "Other reliable sources include university-level textbooks, books published by respected publishing houses, magazines, journals, and mainstream newspapers. Electronic media may also be used, subject to the same criteria."
The reference in question, The God Delusion, is published by Houghton Mifflin and was written by Richard Dawkins, one of the world's most respected scientists, and the author of numerous well-regarded books on biology and human culture. I have kept it in as a reference, because it clearly meets the WP standard as a reliable source.
In any case, none of the information that I added back in (about the uncertainty of the origin of the alleged personage John Frum) is controversial, and it is consistent with virtually every available written account of the John Frum cult.
Please do not revert this info without talking about it here first and discussing your reasons for objection. If there are portions that you believe require more references, please add a note to that effect, but please do not remove the text. Thanks. PeaceLoveHarmony (talk) 02:33, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
The article states that Attenborough was quoted hearing:
"'E look like you. 'E got white face. 'E tall man. 'E live 'long South America."
In Bislama, the language of Vanuatu, long means next to, blong (a much more common word) means of, so the last part of the quote means he was from South America. Might be worth mentioning something in the article about this?
This article from the Smithsonian Magazine suggests that Frum is a corruption of the word "broom," meaning to sweep away the white colonists. The article also says the American soldiers dumped all their unused supplies and their heavy machinery. including transport, into the water after the war ended thus, sadly, depriving the native people of all that "cargo." I think this should be added to the article but I don't know enough about the people or about anthropology to evaluate it for addition to the entry: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/john.html. Also I edited the article for coherency and word usage plus I added a lot of links. I did not touch the references nor did I change the basic structure except once -- to combine two very short paragraphs into one (at the end of the History section). Risssa (talk) 05:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
There is a website here calling itself "John From Movement Inc." which seems to be a thing. Whether to include it under External links? Dunno (not familiar with the subject), but asking. The existing External link labeled "John Frum Movement" which goes here appears dead. Herostratus (talk) 15:52, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on John Frum. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:05, 27 November 2017 (UTC)