This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saints, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Saints and other individuals commemorated in Christianliturgical calendars on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SaintsWikipedia:WikiProject SaintsTemplate:WikiProject SaintsSaints articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Imran should be a separate entry from Joachim so that religious interests do not supercede scholarly ones —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 166.82.166.38 (talk • contribs) .
neutral - though I do think that if it is decided to keep the articles separate they would both benefit from mentioning that Joachim and Imran are one and the same person (i.e. the father of Mary/Maryam) known by different names by two faiths (presumably there are also two different versions of his life). Wikipidian22:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is no similarity between the two except that they point to the same historical figure (mostly) about whom nothing is known outside the two faith traditions. The beliefs about Imran and Joachim have nothing in common. Someone looking for info on Imran won't care much about Joachim and vice versa. Also, the only potential significant expansion of either article seems to be the controversy regarding Imran being the same person as Amran according to the Qur'an. This dispute is confusing enough without adding Joachim to the mix. --Ephilei05:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Imran and Joachim belong to two different traditions. The internal link in See also should be enough. Maybe the person described in the other tradition could be mentioned, but definitely not merge. Delta Tango | Talk23:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
An editor, without discussion, moved the page from Joachim to Joachim (Saint). In addition to this title having capitalization issues, this article had for a long time been at Joachim. I believe that this person is the most notable person named Joachim and deserves to be in the parent article name. There is no reason for the disambig (Saint). The choice of "Saint" is POV because not all Christian traditions accept sainthood. If anything, the article should be at Joachim (Christianity) or something along those lines. That said, I feel strongly that this article should be returned to Joachim, where it stood for a long time.-Andrew c23:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The editor happens to be the sysop who closed the AfD and spent a long time trying to untangle the convoluted edit histories of the two pages (Joachim and Joachim (Star Trek) due to some ill-performed cut-and-paste moves, but I guess that doesn't matter, does it . By the way, you're welcome. -- Avi05:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's not POV to use the phrase, "Joachim (Saint)" any more than it would be to use the phrase, "Jesus Christ" to make clear that the Christian figure is being referenced, not someone else by that (common) name. Using the phrase "Jesus Christ" does not mean that Jesus was, in an encyclopedic sense, "Christ"--why does "Joachim (Saint)" mean that Joachim was a saint? Any reasonable person would simply conclude that the article is about a person named Joachim, who is one of the saints of some Christian sects.
When you consider the fact that even Mary does not link directly to the article about the Virgin Mary, why should Joachim link directly to a far less-known person? Mary and Joachim are both very common names; frankly, it is more likely that people searching for Joachim are looking for information about the name, not the saint.-69.47.186.226 05:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Its standard disambig to have parentheses with additional information after a name. There's a "Joachim (Star trek)", which I hardly think is POV.--THobern 05:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by THobern (talk • contribs).
In the other languages, when you search Joachim and want additional information in english, you are disapointed because we are confused. joachim is linked to Saint_Joachim. and then you change the language and you are in Saint_Joachim : So you have lost Joachim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.147.240.221 (talk) 06:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This article says that "In the Gospel of James, Joachim is described as a rich and pious man of the house of Amram..." I don't see anything in the Gospel of James which says that Joachim was of the House of Amram, or a Levite. In fact, in the Gospel of James 10.1 it says, "And there was a council of the priests, saying: Let us make a veil for the temple of the Lord. And the priest said: Call to me the undefiled virgins of the family of David. And the officers went away, and sought, and found seven virgins. And the priest remembered the child Mary, that she was of the family of David, and undefiled before God." This actually seems to indicate that Joachim was of the House of David, not Amram. - 71.233.205.50 (talk) 22:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, Luke says that Mary was the cousin of Elizabeth, who he says was a descendant of Aaron the high priest, placing her in the tribe of Levi, not David’s tribe . Moreover, in Luke 2:4, the author writes that the reason it was necessary for Joseph and Mary to return to Bethlehem was because it was Joseph, not Mary, who was from the House of David Zakkour (talk) 05:05, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There appear to be regional variations. In places with a significant Jewish population it would probably follow the Hebrew pronunciation, which would be something like Yo-a-chim, with a guttural "ch". In German it would be Yo-ACH-em, Massachusetts and parts of New York are closer to the German: Jo-ACK-em. The "j" is different in French: zhwa-KIM. In the US it is most often found as a popular name among Spanish-speakers: wa-KEEN. I think it may depend on where you grew up. I'm not sure how one would explain the various versions for the article, however. Mannanan51 (talk) 01:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's very doubtful whether Imran was originally the Islamic equivalent of Joachim. It's more likely that the fact that the Qur'an calls Mary the "sister of Aaron" and "daughter of Imran" means that there was confusion between Mary mother of Jesus and Miriam sister of Moses (two figures who were at least a thousand years apart). Imran certainly seems to mean Amram in verse 3:33, and it's likely that it does elsewhere in the Qur'an as well... AnonMoos (talk) 17:20, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have just modified one external link on Joachim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check)) (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
The Quran falsely states that Amrams wife has given birth to Mary who gave birth to Jesus. Problems: Amram`s wife has given birth to Miriam, not Mary. Mary lived 1400 years after Amram and the father of Mary is named Joachim. Miriam and Mary are both named "Maryam" in arabic but Miriam was the "sister of Aaron" and "daughter of Amram(Surah 66:12)", not Mary.
So are these linguistic, historical, or theological problems? Mary is an English name, Miriam and Maryam Semitic. "Sister of Aaron" is easy to explain using Semitic cognates. Produce one hadith or Qur'an verse contradicting 66:12, if you can. ~ POKéTalker(═◉═) 05:26, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How can the subject article be saint if the related apocrypha isn't recognized in the Biblical canon? That simple reason shall apply at least for the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Catholic Church. It would be very strange saint Pope Pius X did something that had been excluded from the Tridentine Calendar. The Wp article doesn't cite any Christian nor Patristic author who had doubted of that paternity, as if the Biblical canon was broader than the Modernist one and it included the Gospel of James.Philosopher81sp (talk) 22:34, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Isnt biblical Amram the quranical reference for Imran?