GA Review

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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 13:24, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Happy to offer a review, but it may take a little while. For reasons which will hopefully be clear, I'm going to aim to keep an eye out for potential NPOV concerns.

  • I've messed around with these sentences a little. I took out the Doyle White quote altogether and simply paraphrased it, also moving it slightly higher in the paragraph. However I've left the Snook quote and merged it into the sentence about the romanticized view of the past. Do these changes work for you? Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:31, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

*"structure of their faith" Ambiguous; I'm not fully clear on the claim.

*"those practitioners imitating the belief systems of Northeastern Europe's linguistically Finnic and Slavic societies" Again with "imitating"; also, could we have a link to a Wikipedia article about these movements?

  • We could perhaps make some changes here. The source is talking specifically of Sweden, so my use of Scandinavia may not be ideal (and neither might Nordic countries for that matter). The source, from Gregorius, states "Their sense of being part of an authentic form of Paganism which is more integrated in Swedish culture is illustrated by their rejection of the term Asatru and adoption of the term Ford Sed". A few paragraphs later, Gregorius adds that "'Asatru' was for a long time the most commonly used term by both practitioners and scholars, but fewer and fewer now use it; instead practitioners prefer the term 'Forn Sed'", before adding that 'Ford Sed' has "for obvious reasons gained little use outside Sweden and Scandinavia". Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've trimmed out the bit about Scandanavia. I think Gregorius is making quite a specific claim which is not easy to summarise; you already note that Forn Sed has some dominance in Scandinavia, so perhaps it's not essential to specify that Ásatrú isn't super popular. Josh Milburn (talk) 11:43, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hunt-Anschutz, who is one of the sources used at this juncture, uses the word "sentient", but I agree that you have a good point that this is not perhaps the most appropriate term. I've made the change to "non-human spirit persons", which sounds more like something from the anthropology of religion. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's true. As it is, I'm mostly just following the sources. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if there were Heathens who don't believe in wights yet I haven't the academic sources to support that at present. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Stopping there for now; a really interesting read so far. Josh Milburn (talk) 13:24, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Some more bits:

  • I know that the original Old Norse sources dealing with Yggrasil are often quite vague, so it wouldn't surprise me if different Heathen groups approach this cosmological worldview differently. I've altered the prose to "Different types of being are believed to inhabit these different realms". Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:02, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure if it is recentism because I believe that these are fairly pioneering developments in the religion's history. For instance, I believe that the Newark chapel is the first public Heathen temple in the United Kingdom (although I could be wrong about that). Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:49, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No problem (struck). Maybe something to think on before FAC- I think that history section could probably be buffed a little? Josh Milburn (talk)
  • Agreed; the History section does need to be improved, although the problem is that no academic has yet to publish a historical study of the modern Heathen movement. Hopefully that will change at some point in the future. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:55, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've rendered it lower-case and non-italicised throughout most of the article; I've kept the upper-case where it is grammatically necessary and left the word italicised when first introducing the word and when discussing the word itself as it was used in the Old Norse language. Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:29, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blain goes with "many practitioners of spae and seiðr today are women, or gay men - marginalised by today's society - and for some few this is sufficient to render the practice... doubtful at best, evil at worst." In her source, Snook goes with "Modern Heathens extrapolate the meanings and methods of seidr from historical accounts and the Icelandic sagas, interpreting it as "women's magic", appropriate only for women or gay men, despite the fact that there are straight male practitioners". Thus, I think that the addition of "most often performed by" should be removed from the article, although the "largely associated with" claim could still stand. Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:56, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This should actually be "British race", and I have amended it accordingly. I have also put it in quotation marks in the article, to reflect the fact that this was a (rather idiosyncratic) concept of Mills'. Certainly, we don't appear to have any corresponding Wikipedia article. Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:00, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personally I feel that the link is fine as it is, because the supposed brotherhood and the book are closely intertwined. A big part of the problem is that the Brotherhood article was almost completely written by the Holtj/ThorLives sock and very much reflects their personal opinion on the issue. It will need a rewrite at some point. Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:05, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your sources all seem great- academic publishers or journals (though some of your journals look very obscure!). I'm not completely done yet... I'll keep picking away... Josh Milburn (talk) 17:18, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, please check my edits. Some of them were pretty big. Josh Milburn (talk) 22:06, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A quick note- does this belong on Template:Paganism? Josh Milburn (talk) 20:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • It could be added, although I'm really not a fan of that template. I actually created it back in 2007, but looking at it now I can see that it is severely flawed in its approach of bringing together Neo-Paganisms with historical pre-Christian religion. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:05, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Was there anything else Josh? Your comments thus far have been very constructive and the article has certainly been improved because of them, so for that I must offer my thanks! Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:02, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, super, I'm going to go ahead and promote at this time. This is a very readable, perfectly referenced article which will be a very valuable resource for people wanting to learn about the subject. If you are looking towards FAC, I think my three comments are as follows: First, do what you can to incorporate material from the sources in the further reading section, second, perhaps have another look at the definition section with an eye to NPOV, and, third, have another look at the history section. Anyway- this is a great article, and I commend you for taking it on. A pleasure working with you, as ever. Josh Milburn (talk) 12:09, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]