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The opening paragraph shall only contain name and date of birth (not place of birth), per MoS (biographies). UweBayern (talk) 15:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
I think that the article should be modified as to the criticism of E. Steinbach in Poland. The reasons for the Polish critique are, among others, as follows:
In general, her political life was full of anti-Polish actions and she is regarded as heavily biased against Poland. These are the reasons for her critique in Poland. The article mentions almost only her bad reputation and exhibitions she organised, while her political campaign against Polish borders and membership in international organisations are the reasons for this critique. Montessquieu (talk) 20:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Critisism is alright but what had happened in Poland in the last couple of weeks is far beyond a fair debate ("blonde beast", tasteless nazi photomontages etc). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.236.241.230 (talk) 18:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Xx236 (talk) 09:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
What are you talking about? It's unfair when somebody accuse that during the debate in Poland Steinbach is called "blonde beast". It's unfair because it's biased. Maybe somebody said something like this but it is not part of real debate in Poland which I observe in media or between politicians. It's like to say that neo-Nazi parties rules in Germany lately, while they have no real power and only few seats in one state parliament. 89.79.103.10 (talk) 15:57, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I basicly agree with Montessquieu who simply inteded to display the state of debatte. However, I gently ask Xx236 to keep in mind that there is, in scales of taste, a difference between (the rather ironic) potatoe-article and e.g. the photo montage showing Mrs. Steinbach wearing a SS-uniform. Furthermore, I would also like to remind 89.79.103.10 that it was not just "somebody" who called E.S. a "blonde beast" but Mr.Bartoszewski who is the official apointee for German matters of the Polish goverment. And, last but not least, the almost agressive tone of your comments (except for Montessquie) may serve as evidence for my statement as well...(08:13, 30 March 2009 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.236.241.230 (talk)
Hello 89.79.103.10, unfortunately I have so far merely found articles written in German as I cannot read Polish and articles concerning that topic seem not to exist in English (presumably because except for Poland and Germany nobody in the world is interested in the debate...): http://www.zeit.de/2009/13/Sikorski It is an interview withe the current Polish minister for Foreign Affairs and has recently been published in the German newspaper "Die Zeit" which you might know?! In the very first two paragraphs, Mr. Sikorski confirms that Mr. Bartoszewski has said "blonde beast" with regard to ES but as part of a comparison in the sense of "for some she is a blonde beauty, for others she is a blonde beast". Hence, I am a bit supprised that he now seems to completly denie to have said something like this at all. I guess it is because he knows quite well that it was not that "great in diplomacy". Regards, (83.236.241.230 (talk) 12:55, 6 April 2009 (UTC))
Mr. Bartoszewski is not denying that he used the term at all. He is denying that he called her like this by himself. He used this extreme comparison only to show how great is difference of opinions about Mrs. Steinbach. Maybe it wasn't the best way to do this but repeating that Mr. Bartoszewski is calling Mrs. Steinbach like this without giving the context of his words is deceptive. Also arguing on this basis that in Poland calling Mrs. Steinbach "blond beast" is part of the real debate is misleading. However, nobody denies repeating Mr. Bartoszewski words but it should be done in objective way without skipping the "blond beauty" opinion about Mrs. Steinbach which he also used in his speech. 89.79.103.10 (talk) 19:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Halibutt/Erika_of_Rumia.Xx236 (talk) 07:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if it's correct, but the former version was false.Xx236 (talk) 07:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC) In fact the quoted article says that the father's ancestors lived in Silesia, not himself. Xx236 (talk) 07:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Rumia was occupied by Germany. Erika Steinbach says Rahmel/Westpr. suggesting she was born in Germany proper. An English language reader should be informed about the context. Xx236 (talk) 07:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
No, it wasnt't part of occupied Poland, but was integrated into Germany proper. Erik Steinbach was born in Rahmel, Danzig-West Prussia, Germany (now Rumia, Poland). Rahmel was part of Germany until 1920, was annexed by Poland in 1920 without plebiscite, was reannexed by Germany in 1939 and reannexed by Poland in 1945. That's the context, however, this is not the Rahmel/Rumia article, but the Erika Steinbach article, and the history of the place before the birth of Steinbach is irrelevant. UweBayern (talk) 00:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I quite agree that it is invidious to refer to Rumia/Rahmel as being in "German-occupied Poland" in 1939 when it could even more reasonably be considered to have been part of Polish-occupied Germany from 1920 until 1939. If you call it "German-occupied Poland" you are really taking a political position. Specifically, you are endorsing the Treaty of Versailles and the annexation of West Prussia to Poland, while denying that West Prussia was re-annexed to Germany in 1939, which it certainly was, with as much legitimacy as it had been taken away in 1920.
It is not a specifically "Nazi" position to say that West Prussia had been traditionally part of the German state and was again in 1939-1945. That certainly is what maps from 1914 and 1940 show. What we are dealing with here is a refusal to acknowledge an historical fact because of its political implications. Calling it a "Nazi POV" is just an attempt to prohibit consideration of it. I contend that the contrary position is also a POV, and certainly not more valid.
Unfortunately, stepping outside the confines of World War II propaganda (upon which the post-war world political order depends) to be truly objective is beyond the capacity of many people, including a preponderance of Wikipedia editors. Consequently we are not going to be able to fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HaddingtheGreat (talk • contribs) 19:59, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Having read the article I can't see any mention of how her political views and actions are viewed by Germans (except "Lecture controversy" section). How known is she in Germany? Is there any crticism pointed at her or are her views regarded as entirely normal and applauded by mainstream public opinion? I don't believe noone voices any opinion about her in German press. German-speaking editors, please make up for this. Cyon (talk) 01:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for your response. Could you source these claims and put them into the article? It would be very informative IMHO. Cyon (talk) 04:49, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
It happens that Poles are quite authoritative regarding anti-Polish attacks. That a German or US citizen ignores facts and/or context doesn't make Erika Steinbach less anti-Polish. QUite many Germans are against Steinbach - the journalist Gabriele Lesser , accused of lies, some leftists. Everything has been discussed many times, you come, you don't know and you feel entiteled to claim you know better. You don't.Xx236 (talk) 11:20, 25 August 2009 (UTC) Many Germans signed the protest [2] against the Centre designed by Erika Steinbach.Xx236 (talk) 11:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Erika Steinbach is the co-author of the Center and after the death of Peter Glotz the main author. Her position is based on the project. Xx236 (talk) 13:04, 25 August 2009 (UTC) Even this article says "In a response, the Federation of Expellees stated".Xx236 (talk) 13:17, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I have written "That a German or US citizen ignores facts and/or context doesn't make Erika Steinbach less anti-Polish.". I don't have any idea who you are, so I'm not able to attack you personally. But yes, after your last few sentences I feel personally attacked. Please don't continue that way. Xx236 (talk) 13:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Regarding your comments about Gabrielle Lesser - this is the discussion about Erika Steinbach.Xx236 (talk) 13:09, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Summarising - bad Poles are responsible for problems in German - Polish relations.
"the rights of Germans who were expelled from former German territories which became Polish following the Nazi defeat in 1945? - the quoted article doesn't contain exactly such words.
The problem with Erika Steinbach and BdV is that they represent also "the rights" of Germans who settled or were born in Nazi occupied Poland and returned after the war to Germany.Xx236 (talk) 11:50, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I address the wrong quotation. Is it wrong to find an error in the article?Xx236 (talk) 12:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
No, it wasn't. It was occupied by Nazi Germany.Xx236 (talk) 13:14, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
What is a "reconciliatory suitcase"?Xx236 (talk) 10:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The Federation of Expellees claims it has around 2 million members. This is a Wikipedia, not the Federation propaganda forum.Xx236 (talk) 07:30, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
"Stop throwing word around." The Federation obtains member fees from 100 000 members. Erika Steinbach claims that organizations underestimate the numbers of mwembers to pay less to the Federation. She doesn't however claim that the organizations hide 95% of memebers. Xx236 (talk) 09:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Erika Steinbach are numbers disputed, the German news agency de:Deutscher Depeschendienst says the BdV has 550,000 members and Steinbach claims 2 million. [3] Now, we have a reliable source that disputes Steinbach’s position. Per WP:UNDUE ,Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each.--Woogie10w (talk) 09:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry but none of these edits have any kind of legitimacy behind them. They're POV pushing clear and simple.VolunteerMarek 08:31, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Re [11]. The town where Erika's father was stationed, Rumia was part of Poland before the partitions of Poland, in 1772 when it became part of Prussia. It was also part of Poland in the interwar period. Now, Erika's father was NOT stationed there during the 19th century, or the 18th. He was stationed there in 1941, during World War II, and the reason for his stationing there is that Nazi Germany invaded Poland and annexed the place. That is the relevant context.Volunteer Marek 21:51, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Miacek, if you're gonna start edit wars [12] (you've reverted 3 times in six hours, without even bothering to post to the talk page!) then at least 1) respond to comments on talk and 2) don't use misleading edit summaries (stuff about "falsification of history" and other nonsense).Volunteer Marek 22:28, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Erika Steinbach was born either in
What kind of added value do such sentences altered to the incomprehensibility have, cf ″Some German media especially blame conservative nationalists in the Law and Justice are blamed″ or ″The way she is portrayed in Polish public has been described some editorial writes as having″? Exercises in WP:WEASEL that ended up with linguistic monstrosities? Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 20:09, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Centre Against Expulsions has been replaced by the Visible Sign and Bundesstiftung Flucht, Vertreibung, Versöhnung. Xx236 (talk) 12:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
The biography contains several informations quoted in the article, sometimes referred as "Citation needed". Xx236 (talk) 09:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
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Maybe, but mostly German victims of the Expulsion.Xx236 (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
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