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I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
User:assuretech I might suggest that Schools in Scotland are not non-denominational at all. There is an established church in Scotland and schools are required to carry out common worship with a Christain bias - can someone fact-check ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.94.155 (talk) 10:49, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Mais Oui! has advised that changes to “long standing” article introductions must be discussed first. His response to the attempt to tidy and make consistent with other similar articles has been to revert all of them without discussion.
In suggesting the following, single sentence, I was attempting to provide context to all readers, regardless of nationality. No change of substance to the content was made.
The system of Education in Scotland is part of the overall system of education in the United Kingdom. There are however significant differences between the Scottish system and that adopted in the rest of the UK.
I am not aware of the policy regarding changes to “long standing” intros., so would appreciate guidance.
I would also welcome comment on whether the suggested amendment harms the content or context of the article in any way – or whether it should stand as an improvement to the set of articles covering education in the UK. leaky_caldron 08:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
As for "uniformity" - you are absolutely correct - that's they way references documents should be. Frankly, at worst it's totally harmless and not something any sensible individual should raise concerns about. The articles were previously "uniform" - but just plain badly introduced without the wider UK context. Whether we like it or not, the UK of England, Sootland & Wales exists, not just the separate countries.
Please consider revising not reverting (esp. without explanation). It's much easier to get along that way.leaky_caldron 09:47, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
This article has the potential to grow into a great article. We could mention (at least briefly) issues such as:
MP (talk) 10:14, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking of secondary education in Scotland there. Is there such an article already ? MP (talk) 10:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Something about the Comprehensive system in Scotland (how prevalent? when introduced? why so different from England & Wales?) is essential! I've added a link here from Comprehensive school, but I was hoping for a bit more info! Omicron18 08:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
I think the school years table needs a little amendment as the start ages seem out by a year. For example pupils start secondary school in Scotland (in S1) at the age of 12 and are usually 13 when they finish the year. Pupils also start S6 at the age of 17 and leave at the age of 18. Earlier years should be adjusted accordingly. Maybe some confusion has crept in because some pupils take their Highers in S5 (and maybe even S4). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbillcliff (talk • contribs) 11:32, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
Is this information verifiable. I have never worked on this principle. English Reception is equivalent to Scottish Primary 1 not nursery, leading primary 7 and year 6 being comparable. Children start P1 in order that they will be 5 during that year at some point (in general) making it equivalent to the reception year. I have made the changes I think it needs, any comments? --Brideshead 11:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Good, I was unsure about changing it without discussion, but it seemed to make slightly more sense this way. You're right though. The two systems don't merge properly but this looks about the best we can do. --Brideshead 14:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I disagree; although the ages may be slightly different, pupils transferring from Primary 4 (for example) to an English school will generally go into Year 4, not Year 3. Also, Year 12 and Year 13 are lower sixth and upper sixth form (and therefore the equivalents of S5 and S6), not Years 11 and 12 as in the article. Lottieicf 13:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The main problem in comparing the two systems is the age that a child starts a certain year. In England, Wales and Northern Ireland a child has to be a certain age on the 1 September to begin attending class that September meaning that the oldest children in that year are born in September while the youngest are born in August. However this is different in Scotland where a child has to be a certain age on 1 March to begin attending class in August meaning the oldest children are born in March while the youngest are are born in February. To add to this confusion children born in January and February can and sometimes are "held back" a year whereby they spend an extra year at Nursery School and start school the following August. So while in England, Wales and Northern Ireland it is simple to say everyone in Year 11 will be between the ages of 15 and 16 in Scotland pupils in Secondary 4 could be between 14 and 16.5. So pupils tranfering from Primary 4 to an English school would go into Year 4 if they were born between March and August while they would go into Year 3 if they were born between September and Feruary. Pupils transfering from Year 10 to a Scottish school would go into Secondary 3 if they born between September and February while they would go into Secondary 2 if they were born between March and August. marsbar_man 23:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
it is a very difficult situation, the systems don't merge, however I don't think that the current table shows an accurate general impression of the two systems. Although the ages are slightly different Primary 1 equates better to Reception, leading Primary 7 to mesh with year 6. This seems to be more representative of the true, very complex, situation. --Brideshead 23:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
But if that were the case then that would mean there are fourteen years in the English school system. For example, if Reception and Primary one are the same, meaning Primary Seven is the same as Year Six then Sixth Year would link with Year Twelve. So where does Year Thirteen fit in? Also, this site seems to show nursery school in Scotland corresponds to Reception class in England ([1])--Cosmic quest 03:58, 17 October 2006
This get's more difficult doesn't it? I suppose one way of thinking of would be in terms of compulsary education. In Scotland Nursery provision is available for all 3 and 4 year olds but is not compulsary and thus children don't begin compulsary education until P1, (4 and a half to 5 and a half). Is reception in England compulsary education or do parents have the choice until year one? --Brideshead 10:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I think Brideshead has got it right. There seems to be an extra year in England at secondary level. 5 to GCSE (Year 7 to 11) then 2 for A-level (Year 12 and 13) often known lower and upper sixth. In Scotland upper sixth must equate to a seventh year and hence fourteen in all. I only contribute from personal experience - my education in Scotland - my children's in England. However, I wonder why it's necessary to compare at all. Surely it's a diversion of confusion? --
There is seven years in the English seconday school system (and children do six years of primary school) whereas it's the opposite in Scotland with children studying at primary school for seven years then going to secondary school for six years. In both countries, that adds up to thirteen years of schooling altogether. I think Reception class is just another word for nursery school (I remember my English cousin going to her Reception class at her school but uniform wasn't worn until she started Year One). In Scotland, not all primary schools have a nursery school in the building so this is where the confusion is coming from.])--Cosmic quest 18:50, 31 October 2006
I think the table is misleading as it is. For academic comparison, I would agree that S6 is roughly equivalent to Year 13, but from an age comparison, I'm not sure it works. Looking at the start of the table: The oldest children in P1 would always be in Year 1 together with the youngest from P2. The youngest from P1 would be in year R, which would not have nursery age children in it - Year R has staggered intake, so that children start the term before they turn 5 (ie children younger than 4 and a half are not part of year R, they are still of nursery age. In some schools you may get a class that is mixed part time nursery children with full time reception class children - but technically formal education begins in year R). Year R is missed off the table entirely. Maybe a better solution to trying to match the systems in terms of age comparison is to include 2 year groups in the English and Welsh column? ie P1 - year R/1, through to S6 - year 12/13 ? 90.213.139.19 (talk) 09:47, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
This table still has some issues. For example, S6 in Scotland is shown as being equivalent to year 13 in both the English and Welsh and the Northern Irish education systems, despite year 13 in England and Wales being unambiguously equivalent to year 14 in Northern Ireland. It might be impossible to create a table in this format that is completely clear about what is meant due to the differences in birthday cutoffs and curriculum between the systems. 88.96.79.118 (talk) 21:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
Queen Margaret is not in Edinburgh (as the list shows), but in East Lothian. I seem to see this a lot on wikipedia. It can be described as being "near Edinburgh", but the campus is in East Lothian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.181.180 (talk) 09:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate that that section was far too long for this main article, and therefore needing splitting out into its own article. However it is standard Wikipedia in-house style to leave a brief summary of the topic in the main article! Not simply a bare link to the new article. For examples, please see the subsection format of any FA articles (eg, Belgium). --Mais oui! (talk) 07:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I note that Qualification exam is a redlink. Should we start a stub on it, and redirect Qually to the new stub? Eg. please see:
--Mais oui! (talk) 13:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
This article really should have at least a couple of sentences on Gaelic, with integrated links to Gaelic medium education in Scotland (just having that in the see also section is not enough) and similar, and info on Gaelic as a second language at school. --Doric Loon (talk) 15:51, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
I am surprised to note that there is virtually no mention of the actual content of Scottish primary education. Just a lot of stuff about ages. We really ought to have a go at creating a proper, referenced section regarding primary education. --Mais oui! (talk) 03:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Why is Robert Gordon's in the "Secondary school naming" list? The list states that these are state schools, but RG (as its own page says) is private. I guess somebody thought that it's of interest to mention the places named College, but then we'd need to change the numbers anyway and include others like George Watson's in Edinburgh; or be clear that the list included independent schools. Or am I missing something about RG's status? – Kieran T (talk) 11:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
As the article is about formal "education" and primarily about schooling I suggest the title should be changed to "Formal Education in Scotland" with a similar approach taken for other regional articles. Education is a lifelong and unrestricted process that formal "education" systems are only a small part of (and some would argue are counter to lifelong educational goals), therefore restricting the word "education" to that which operates under a formal system is incorrect.
--Farnishk (talk) 14:19, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
There is a strange tone in the lead to this article, almost like advertising - others have an opinion? - Sara FB (talk) 02:35, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Education in Scotland/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs references, per WP:CITE. |
Last edited at 13:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 14:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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There are 15 universities with the power to award degrees. The mention of three colleges is technically incorrect. They can prefer candidate for a degree, which are then awarded by an approved university. Reference 49 would be better using the listed bodies legislation https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2018/7/introduction/made 2A0C:B381:59A:EE00:9891:78D4:C18F:B399 (talk) 23:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
The photo described as "Scottish school children during a classroom lesson", is actually of an event at Glasgow Science Centre, so neither a lesson nor in a classroom: Education_in_Scotland#Access_to_education
It's a nice photo (of children colouring in military hardware) but I wonder if we could get a photo of an actual class? 2A0C:B381:5A8:B00:EC3F:10C5:C6AF:7A19 (talk) 10:31, 31 May 2024 (UTC)