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I heard something about variable computers. If someone knows what they are and how they work, can they type it in?
Is my thermostat a computer? :-)
No it is a simple feedback device unless it is a programable thermostat.
Suppose it's programmable.
Then yes, it is a computer. I think a more natural way of speaking would be to say that it has a computer in it.
Well, no; it has an embedded chip...that doesn't make it a computer, does it?
We have to start with definition. To most people 'computer' means personal computer and even if they think about a supercomputer they see a more powerful pc. If we however stick to the definition 'device that process data' then computer will have much broader meaning. ENIAC was a computer but it did not resemble present computers. A computer computes data therefore any device that does it can be called computer. A programmable thermostat has small computer inside and one of the more sophisticated thermostats might be more powerful than ENIAC.
I think a strong connotation of computer nowadays is that it is universal (ie. it can perform any computational task). A thermostat can be incredibly sophisticated but it will still only tell you when to turn on the heater. A pac-man machine will only play pac-man. But a computer can do either of those things, or much more, so long as you give it instructions on how to do so.
A computer used to mean a person that computed, eventually a person that computed using an adding machine. Many of these computers were women. The computations were often systems of differential equations (or other linear systems), for example, solving problems in ballistics.
I intend to give this page a serious working over as the result of some interesting discussions on talk:Konrad Zuse and on the other "history of computing" related pages. Robert Merkel
As the author of the page (though it has been improved somewhat since) i think a complete rewrite would be nice. I wrote it mostly in desperation that so important a topic had only a one like entry. The current page is better than that but not particularly good.
However, i suggest not deleting anything from the page until you have a complete article that covers all the important stuff already there (and hopefully more!). One way might be to rule a line at the top (or bottom) and start your rewrite in a seperate section. When you have enough there the old version could be removed.
I have seen a few other pages where mediocre articles were deleted by someone who then ran out of steam before completing their rewrite, leaving something worse than the original. Leaving both versions available during the transition protects somewhat against this disaster. Best of luck here!
I didn't see the above comment until I had committed my rewrite (it was actually a good idea you had, if somebody can restore the old article and hang it somewhere that'd be good).
(Done. It's at the end of the new one. New one is looking good!)
It is approximately half "feature-complete" at this point. Seeing we already have a great deal of other material on computing topics, I intend to concentrate merely on the "what is a computer" question, with very brief overviews of the other two subheadings.
Any suggestions (or just plain edits) on how to improve my explanation of why Turing-completeness is important would be appreciated. Robert Merkel
On the commercial computing side, data processing machines began to enter serious use circa 1895 in the USA and during the early 20th century many other places. These machines usually were based on punched cards and could do operations such as sorting, tabulating, counting, and in some cases calculating a total, but were probably not general enough to be considered computers. When computers became cheap enough to be competitive, computers took over because they can do all this, and have much more flexibility. Many of the technologies used in computers 1945-1970 were originally developed for earlier data processing machines and some of the same companies were involved (IBM and Burroughs, maybe Sperry, probably others in other countries). In the history section this seems somehow relevant, but you write so much better than me i leave it to you to decide if, or how, to add it.
Yes, the new one is really looking good! --LMS
I think the old version should be moved here. Also, even though the main article could be expanded almost without limit, it might be good to move or remove all the metacomments so that it will read like most of the other articles. David 19:49 Sep 21, 2002 (UTC)
"It's now commonplace for operating systems to include web browsers, text editors, e-mail programs, network interfaces, movie-players and other programs that were once quite exotic special-order programs." Is this realy true even in windows? In Linux vim or emacs, xine or mplayer, kmail, evolution mutt or pine ,konqueror galeon opera mozilla or firebird would never be considered part of the OS which most people would consider the kernel, likewise for OSX and its BSD derived kernel. Do people realy regard notepad and IE and outlook and windows media player as part of the OS - I know microsoft claims it for IE, but the rest? I'm sure Microsoft would like to claim almost any aplication where they have competition is "part of the OS" so they can happily bundle it with the OS, but bundeling with and being part of are two different things. This passage should be defended or removed, is there any example of an OS where eg the text editor is part of the OS? Generally where the functionality can be provided by an alternative program it cannot be considered part of the OS. The example of network interfaces is the one example of a function which has genuinely been taken over by the os as compared to a third party program (cf. trumpet winsock) Htaccess
I really like this article but feel it is missing an important piece about the user of computers to decode in WW2. Is that somewhere else and if so can we put in a link to it? --(talk)BozMo 13:37, 14 May 2004 (UTC)
Oh dear. For some reason John von Neumann isn't mentioned in the definition section. Odd that. Other missing people are Alan Turing and the pair Alonzo Church and Stephen Kleene.
These folks provide 3 different detailed definitions of computer, all of which are currently in actual use in the field. :-)
The 3 POVs (with a very short summary (so YMMV) ) are:
These 3 definitions overlap:
This means that all 3 POVs of are logically equivalent, but they do each bring a slightly different way of looking at computers to the table.
I guess I'd better look into this better sometime. Kim Bruning 23:06, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I just completely re-wrote the definition section. Turing and Von neumann now get mentions but church does not (maybe you could add him in a suitable place). Given the general title I tried to stay away from too much theory and leave the details for other pages..
I think the following would be useful:
I also moved a lot of etymology to here wiktionary:computer which seems a much beter place for it.
What do I want from a computer? Well, love, but I've pretty much given up hope on that one. Ten years ago a guy named Steve made a computer called NeXT, and things still suck. This is intolerable. Why don't I have a minimal instruction set computing (MISC)-type box on my desk? Something like a Forth engine (cf. Chuck Moore's F21 CPU and similar), with Lisp as the app language (coded itself in machine Forth, of course). Forth can be implemented surprisingly efficiently with a stack machine. No register mess, which makes context switching basically painless and trivial. Easy, cheap, frequent procedure calling is encouraged, with implicit low coupling and modularity thanks to the ever-present stack. Programs are small and efficient because so few instructions are required on a complete stack machine. Oh, yes, while I'm at it, I'd like the whole thing implemented in asynchronous logic CMOS please, so I can implant it in my cerebral cortex and run it off body heat and the occasional shot of glucose. Sigh. Well, I'm a cs geek, but there are times I wish I was in comp. engg...
The picture below shows one of my MBs that fried mystriously, it was connected to a highedups which showed now power issures at all. But obliouvsly something went wrong. Any way thought the pic might be of use to someone. Belizian 20:26, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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Computar redirects here. Is that right? Neither Dictionary.com nor Google seem to have anything useful. Brianjd
I removed the information on CPU manufacturers because it was misleading and incomplete. Intel and AMD both make x86 chips and, it doesn't make sense to mention "Motorolla" (68k) and Cyrix (another x86) and not PPC which is still used for a minority of desktops (or for that matter other low-key x86 players like Transmeta or VIA). In any case, information on manufacturers isn't really necessary to a general discussion of ALUs. --HunterX 08:16, 2005 Jan 7 (UTC)
I think the newly added general principles section is a good idea but I'm not sure Claude Shannon deserves special mention. His work on information theory was very important but this is only incedental to computers. Also he was not the only one thinking about boolean algebra Konrad Zuse was doing the same thing in Germany. Alan Turing was certainly more important than Shannon but again he is only one of many. In general I think name droping in a genral principles section is not very helpful since it will evolve into a who's who of computer pioneers. -- John Harris 2005, Jan 8
Uh, the reason Shannon is there is NOT because of his work on information theory. Before you make a fool of yourself further, please read the Shannon article in full, and the attached discussion page, to understand why he is listed in this article. Shannon had two major accomplishments in life, (1) founding digital circuit or logic design theory, and (2) founding information theory. It is the first one which was his major fundamental contribution to modern computers. Otherwise we might still be doing electronic computers the old-fashioned way, totally ad hoc, like Zuse, Stibitz, Atanasoff, etc., instead of doing them the fancy way, with modern Boolean algebra.
--Coolcaesar 05:37, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
In the etymology section, it might be worth mentionning that "Computer" is of latin origin, it comes from the verb "computare" which means "to count". It also gave the French verb "compter" which has the same meaning.
Somebody needs to fix the image Image:PPTSuperComputersPRINT.jpg -- the vertical axis says that FLOPS = "floating point operations" where FLOPS is actually "floating point operations per second." Gary D Robson 17:33, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
In case anyone was looking at the history, the reversion that I made was against the vandalism by 219.95.97.41, not 219.95.97.4 like I accidently said. DarthVader 14:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Where's the history section? I know, I know...be bold, but is it just somewhere I haven't seen yet? --Wtshymanski 19:47, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Don't take this personally, but this article has become a near-unreadable collection of people's personal hobby-horses.
One unfortunate problem of encyclopedia articles by committee is that while committees are very good at adding things, they are terrible at removing them. This particularly shows itself in "overview"-type articles as this one is, because everybody wonders why their little bit of expertise isn't mentioned in the main article (it's in fact discussed at length in more narrowly focussed ones). The "classification" section, for instance, is incredibly unwieldy, and in my view adds little of value for the reader. This article therefore needs a thorough renovation, which I intend to start work on tonight.
Please, just don't add whatever random fact comes into your head to an overview article! Think about whether it actually adds value to the likely reader! --Robert Merkel 04:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I have drafted a heavily revised version of this article at Computer/Temp. I have deliberately narrowed the focus to the modern, digital computer, and removed a lot of the definitional stuff, and tried to give more comprehensive treatment of what a stored-program computer is and what it does. It still needs a lot of work, but I think it's to a point where it can replace the present article as the basis for future work. If anybody's got a violent objection to me replacing the present version with the new version, could they say so here? --Robert Merkel 13:31, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
You know, I'm on crack today, it seems. Let me re-state: The halting problem is not NP, as I had stated. It is not solvable, as stated in the edit, which I will restore, but make a bit clearer. -Harmil 15:01, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
OK, In the light of some suggestions and mainly positive comments, I have bitten the bullet and replaced the old version with the version from Computer/Temp. Have at it. --Robert Merkel 05:54, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
One thing the rewrite hasn't really touched is the question of illustration. While I'm sure we can find suitable photographs, is there anything in this article that really needs a diagram for further elucidation? Maybe a conceptual diagram of the stored program architecture? --Robert Merkel 04:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
The recent edit by Jjshapiro is wrong: The quote from Sun was as above, not "the computer is the network". Also, most of what's been added is better covered in the Internet article. Also, there's a big difference between networking and internetworking, which was left alone before (not particularly relevant to Computer article anyway) but is nicely muddied here now... I just don't have time at the moment to try to sort all this out for him/her. Maybe it should just be reverted, but 210.211.241.195's new para about the WWW wasn't much good either - "shopping or marketing a product"? Sorry, guys. --Nigelj 19:18, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
Some one inserted words like "gay" and "bumming" into the article and make some links unworking because of this! Please restore this article to a honest state. Thanks.
I have reverted the history section to an earlier version. This is an *overview* article, and giving so much prominence to a special-purpose machine like the AtanasoffBerry Computer is inappropriate. While its contributions of using binary numbers and all-electronic computations were important, it wasn't a general-purpose machine. It was another step along the path to the general-purpose, stored-program machines, perhaps comparable in importance to the ENIAC and Zuse's various machines and thus worthy of approximately the same amount of space. Frankly, the ABC page needs some NPOV and cleanup work too (the article confuses the concepts of Turing completeness and the stored program architecture), but that's another issue. --Robert Merkel 13:49, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I recently reverted some edits that seemed to confuse computer with personal computer as explained here. I thought I'd put this here since it could look like vandalism on my part to an outside party. Indium 10:01, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the bit about networking from the lead paragraph; as networking is *not* an essential component of all computers, and it's a hell of a lot older than 10 years. See embedded computer for an example of computers that often don't have any networking capabilities, and ARPANET for networking that long predates 1995. Computers are more than just home PC's, people. --Robert Merkel 12:32, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems that Robert Merkel is extremely conservative and intolerant. When one talk about computers, whether server computers, embedded computers or personal computers, there ability to communicate is unquestionable. It appears that he belongs to an ancient tribe which believes that computers can only compute. In fact communication in modern world uses computers extensively. He is behaving like an osterich. The definition of the word computer has changed through decade, from a person who calculated, to the analytical engine of Charles babbage, to electronic calculator (Karl Zuse) to microproceesor controlled mainframes to the modern computers that are seen in several avtaars. So nothing is served by citing the definiion in Mariam Websters dictionary. Definitions of terms change with time and one has to learn to accept the changes.Charlie 08:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, if I sounded like insulting you. I had indeed no such intention. The point I was trying to make that at present the most common perception of a computer is a device that is (and can be) used for communication. You must be aware of the old saying " exceptions prove the rule". True there can be computers that are bereft of any communication ability, but they are not the only computer machines. A vast majority of computers are now being deployed for communication purposes. So if a line is added to the definition that computers can also facilitate communication and are increasing used to do so, I see no harm. But, you seem to be extremely possesive of your lines and cannot tolerate any one changing them, so let it be. But remember we are communicating with each other only through computers, and that includes computers other than our PCs. Charlie 07:04, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
It may be very true that "computer scientists" learn through their education that "computers are devices that can process information only" , but the readers of wikipedia are not computer scientists alone. To press this point is rather puritanical not practical. Charlie 08:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
That's it. Why can't this article be introduced with your definition. " Computers are devices that process information. One of their major applications is as communication devices to the extent that the information is sent to and comes from a remote location." Charlie 07:14, 23 November 2005 (UTC)