GA Review

[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

I'm going through the article from the top down, so I'll be listing issues as I come across as I read the article. The only ones that don't need to be corrected to pass would be in the "Other things to remember" section (but may be a good idea especially if FA is considered). Here are the following issues I see, so far.

Prose/MoS issues

[edit]

Verifability concerns

[edit]

Image issues

[edit]

Other things to remember (not part of the GA review)

[edit]
  • Based on the history of this article, we've consciously tried to provide a specific citation (and when possible, multiple citations) for each and every assertion. Up until about a year and a half ago the article was quite contentious. Given the nature of the group involved, there isn't an official body that can be quoted for beliefs and practices. As a result, the article was quite unstable as editors with different points of view would argue about what "churches of Christ" believe based on what a particular congregation or preacher did or said - in far too many cases it turned into a debate over which belief or practice was "correct," without any regard to how prevalent or characteristic of churches of Christ it really was. The only way we could find to put an end to that was to "over cite" each statement using the best secondary sources we could find. It does tend to break up the flow of the text, but it has seemed to bring stability to the article.EastTN (talk) 15:47, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusions

[edit]

I am placing the GA review on hold pending improvements above. As of this timestamp, I am done through the "Beliefs" section. More will be coming, and I will update the above sections as well as down here when I see more issues. MuZemike 21:10, 10 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing, though. With the images of the luminaries of the Churches of Christ, you may want to consider spreading them out more. One no-no with WP:LAYOUT is to, first, not have text sandwiched between two images or other boxes; and second, to not have images directly below L3 headings (something with that the software doesn't like).
As you get past GA, more attention to detail is needed. When approaching FA, all i's need to be dotted, and all t'd need to be crossed. That is, the prose needs to be polished and ensured that it's written in a professional tone (especially for a topic like this). Double-check the images and make sure they are appropriately and properly tagged, in this case, as public domain or other appropriate license such as CC-BY-SA. If there are other print sources out there that are not referenced in the article that can help out the reader look more into Churches of Christ add them into a "Further reading" section; see WP:FURTHER for more details. Finally, look at other FACs and look at the most common "opposes" and remedy them in this article if need be. Hope that helps out a bit more. MuZemike 16:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - that helps! EastTN (talk) 03:19, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Instrumental or Non-Instrumental

[edit]

Churches of Christ in the United States is the probably the most comprehensive listing of A Capella congregations in this grouping. In 2009 it delisted some congregations that allegedly were instrumental. Other congregations, that had the same degree of "instrumental" worship were not removed. Was the non-removal due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the editors of that publication, as claimed by the editors of that publication, or were other criteria used to delist the allegedly instrumental congregation, as claimed by some bloggers and pundits? (http://oneinjesus.info/2009/01/23/what-is-a-church-of-christ-introduction/ partially discusses the issue of "What is the Church of Christ (A Capella)".) There are "instrumental" congregations that self-identify with the "A Capella" group. There are "A Capella" congregations that self-identify with the "Intrumental" group. This specific article is about the A Capella branch, but as one digs into the specific practices of specific congregations, the question of what "Instrumental" and "A Capella" includes, and what they exclude, gets very blurred. jonathon (talk) 15:40, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that this article should cover those "churches of Christ" that separated from the Disciples of Christ in 1906. The Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ are a different group that split off from the Disciples later on. They are sometimes described as Churches of Christ (Instrumental), because other than the use of instruments in worship and participation in an annual conference, they are very similar to the group that split off in 1906. The congregations that this article is talking about (arising from the 1906 split) are often described in contrast as the Churches of Christ (a capella), because they have historically not used instruments in public worship. There are several identifiable subgroups within this fellowship, though, such as the churches of Christ (non-institutional) and a relatively small group of congregations that have begun using musical instruments.
My understanding of this article is that it is intended to describe the broader fellowship of churches of Christ historically associated with the 1906 division of the Restoration Movement. Accordingly, it describes the historical origins, the most common beliefs and practices within the fellowship, and identifies the most significant variations and subgroups. We can add specific articles for those subgroups as needed, along the lines of the article for the churches of Christ (non-institutional). That's why the section on non-instrumental worship says:
"The Churches of Christ generally combine the lack of any historical evidence that the early church used musical instruments in worship and the belief that there is no scriptural support for using instruments in the church's worship service to decide that instruments should not be used today in worship. Churches of Christ have historically practiced a cappella music in worship services . . . There are congregations that permit hand-clapping and musical instruments."
It's intended to cover the general practice while recognizing that some congregations do use instruments.
Your point about the difficulty in sorting out all of the modern divisions among churches with a Restoration Movement heritage is well taken. I think it's probably easiest to keep it all straight if we continue to organize things historically - so we have these "churches of Christ" originating in 1906, the "independent churches of Christ" originating in a later split (1926 or 1968, depending on how you look at things), and the "International Churches of Christ" that split off from the 1906 group during the 1970s.
Does that make sense? EastTN (talk) 20:47, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with your organization of the major divisions. Jclemens (talk) 23:00, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
EastTN's statement makes sense to me. This article is specifically about the "A Capella" branch. I made this subsection to avoid breaking up the "verifiability concerns" list. The "disputed" statement was/is This is not a formal distinction; church members simply refer to congregations as "instrumental" or "non-instrumental". Richland Hills Church of Christ" --- which probably should have its own wiki article --- _might_ be able to point to verifiable data on "A Capella" congregations that also have an instrumental service. The editors of Churches of Christ in the United States stated that there are individual congregations that are in "no man's land", because they consider themselves to be "A Capella", but utilize instruments. What I haven't seen on the instrumental side, is a list of congregations that don't (¿currently?) use an instrument. The only reason I'm aware that they exist, is that I've seen references to such, in various places. From the outside, the only difference between the two groups, is whether or not they use a musical instrument.jonathon (talk) 19:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point. It seems to me that a formal historical distinction can be made between the "churches of Christ" and the "Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ," because the former were on one side of the 1906 division and the later were on the other side. There are certainly congregations of the "churches of Christ" that use musical instruments, and it's causing a good bit of consternation. Whether that yet constitutes a "formal" split or not may depend on the eye of the beholder. I wasn't aware that there were congregations of the "Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ" that don't use instruments, but it doesn't really surprise me. I've thought for a long time that if there were any two branches of the Restoration Movement that might come to rapprochement with each other, it would be these two.EastTN (talk) 22:12, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]