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A fact from Charter 08 appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 17 December 2008, and was viewed approximately 1,695 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Why have a blank section? It almost looks like it was removed. Are we hoping people will just voulunteer names? Wouldn't that be dangerous if they were chinese? Should we remove it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulgmiller (talk • contribs) 23:04, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Related discussion please see:User talk:浙太湖 or [Talk:零八宪章]. Only in Chinese. Somebody please help translate. -浙太湖 (talk) 13:06, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Is it pertinent to push the Dalai Lama and the 1989 photo here ?
Chinese people is slowly fighting to get more right, in a new economically liberal context, that's already an huge fight, please dont push other issues into this articles. Yug (talk) 22:09, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
China is very much lacking in spiritual leadership.After 60 years of Marx-Leninist indoctrination, nearly all the Chinese (specially right now) need some sort of Spiritual guildence. 30 years of 'free enterprise' may have enable some Chinese to improve the living standards(rich in material only), but the Chinese is actually living in a spiritual vacuum, the return of the Confucious Teaching is a solid proof. Arilang talk 05:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
[Here, Arilang1234 posted an email from someone at New York Review of Books, giving permission to copy the translation of the text of the Charter 08; however, there are questions about whether the format of this copyright permission statement satisfy Wikipedia's requirements. I'm deleting the email for privacy reasons.]
users Patrickneil, Coppertwig, Moonriddengirl, and me we all agree that the full text really should go to Wikisource instead. While we are sorting out the copyright issue(which will take time), my suggestion is for the time being the 'Full text' shall be moved to Arilang/sandbox as temporary measure. Any suggestions from other editors are welcome. Arilang talk 14:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Teacher Coppertwig, could you help me to draft an email to be sent to the NY Time Book Review, to let them know the exact requirement of wiki copyright issue? Meanwhile I was thinking, since Charter 08 was draft by a group of people(300 plus), which one of them would be the holder of 'copyright'? Arilang talk 06:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to state the responses of NGOs? There were responses from many NGOs, including those with many China ties, including China Human Rights Defenders, Human Rights in China, the two who provided translations of the Carter. L (talk) 00:42, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The translation by Perry Link that is given on the very first paragraph of the article is incorrect. It includes references to Tiananmen incidents that are not in the Chinese original preamble. A different translation should be used, for example this one: http://www.hrichina.org/public/contents/85717. Source: chinese original http://www.canyu.org/n4460c6.aspx. From Chinayouren blog at http://chinayouren.com/eng Chinayouren (talk) 16:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, there are also a few more discrepancies further in the text. It is a pity because I find Proffesor Perry's translation to be better in terms of style. It seems that he was working in parallel with the Chinese authors but for some reason did not incorporate some last minute changes. I have been unable to find proof of this on the internet, but a commenter on my blog tipped me off about a note on MCLC reading list where Proff.Link admitted it himself. It is very strange that he has never corrected his translation, perhaps suggesting some disagreement with the Chinese counterparts. The point is that the original Chinese signers only signed the Chinese version so the article should follow the most accurate translation of that signed version. Chinayouren (talk) 17:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.154.243.183 (talk) 16:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Good news everyone, I have just received another email from Professor Perry Link:
Quote:P.S.: I would request that note that "this translation by Perry Link frist appeared in the New York Review of Books in January 2009". P.L.
Perry Link wrote: > I grant Wikisource a GFDL permission to publish my translation of > Charter 08. > > Perry Link > Unquoted. Arilang talk 20:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The Boxun article cited does not substantiate above claim. It only says there are 5000 signatures:
- Some signers are neither a intellectual nor a human rights activist
- Some signers are not Chinese
- Even the Title section of the citation states "5000 people"
Bobby fletcher (talk) 05:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks to Bobby fletcher for pointing out the error, I shall amend it. Arilang talk 07:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Dalai Lama is an important spiritual leader, please keep his picture there. Arilang talk 05:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm very new at this, so putting this in 'talk' rather than trying to edit the article. Could we also include a link to the original Chinese text? Perhaps in the Wikisource article with Perry's translation? ([1])
My Chinese is rusty, but this site [2] appears to have the original text and 303 signatures. It's by "独立评论" (The Independent Review). Whether it's the 'original' site and who owns the copyright I don't know, but presumably a link to the site is allowable.
Cheers
OzJohn OzJohn (talk) 22:48, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The link to the original Chinese in the External Links section seems to have been blocked: my browser says "This web site at www.canyu.org has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences." Is this true or just censorship? Tamino (talk) 10:52, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
"As a document of Chinese origin, it is unusual...."
Why is it unusual? Has the concept of saying what they want not entered their heads any time in the past simply because they are Chinese? I have edited it to make it a far less cynical sentence to the original.
81.111.120.73 (talk) 04:15, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Seems a bit odd. I would suggest a summary of what it is, then include that large excerpt elsewhere. Homunculus (duihua) 13:31, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
This article has several problems. The worst is that it uses draft language and third-party quotes that are not in Charter 08 and represents this information as being in Charter 08. The official English translation of Charter 08 is on the Charter 08 website[3]. Quotes like "All kinds of social conflicts have constantly accumulated" and "The current system has become backward" are from a news article (and someone's seemingly casual explanation of what Charter 08 says), and not from Charter 08 itself. The signature count is out of date and comes from third-party sources, instead of from the (Chinese-language) Charter 08 website, where the current tally is kept[4] (if you scroll down, the table on the left is a list of signature batches and a count of how many signatures are in each batch. Add them up for the current tally. The batch without a number is from a website that is independently updated. Check the link to see how many signatures are there (290 as of my count)). The list of 19 recommendations is given the aggressive title "Demands," as opposed to the charter's use of the term "recommendations," as in, "we offer the following recommendations." Further, while some of the terms in Charter 08, like "freedom to assemble," are well-defined and understandable on their own, others require more explanation to understand what the authors mean by them. For example, republicanism just means a head of state that is not born into the position, but Charter 08 uses the term to include separation of powers, equal access to government, and representation and deliberation of competing interests. There needs to be explanation, not just a list of out-of-context phrases. I spent some time improving this article, but my edit was silently reverted. You can see that edit here[5]. Feel free to use it. 98.246.191.164 (talk) 06:03, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone know what they mean by "free market"? Do they mean the classical definition of a market free from monopoly power, business fraud, political insider dealing and special privileges for vested interests. A market freed from Feudalism and serfdom, or more formally, one free of economic rent, in the formulation by David Ricardo of the Law of Rent. Or do they mean the anti-classical definition of a market free for fraud, monopoly rents, etc? WjtWeston (talk) 17:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
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