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The final sentence of the article, "If the concept is taken up as civil disobedience as suggested by Jim Bell then this could easily lead to the end of all open and above ground government anywhere on earth," seems a bit too apocalyptic for a serious encyclopedia.
this is kind of intense, but given the sophistication of Al Qaeda etc., I am quite sure we are not telling them anything here they don't already know...
Interestingly, much of the material describing this stuff is no longer on the open web...
The "Jim Bell" link to zolatimes redirects to another location which yields 404 "File not found".
The final sentence of the third paragrpah is incomplete. It ends "it is substantially more difficult to assign criminal liability for the action(s)." Substantially more difficult than what?
Dominus 14:50 Mar 12, 2003 (UTC)
Tim May had already discussed the idea of cryptographic protocols enabling the existence of abhorrent markets (such as assassination markets) before Jim Bell's "Assassination Politics" post (which was intially to the cypherpunks mailing list, iirc.
I personally recall seeing such discussion in the extropians mailing list ~1993-1994 and on cypherpunks in 1994.
Tim May is easily discovered on Usenet, so finding his email address is simple. I recommend contacting him for his version of events.
This discussion is peurile imo because Jim Bell is misrepresented and unable to defend himself.Jim was the first to bring out the great libertory and freeing effects that assassination politics would bring to the world. Quite the opposite tack to the neo-nazi Tim Mays ' abhorrent' markets. Jims conception was less of a market and more of a mass movement of civil disobedience and he is quite explicit about that toward the end of his ten page essay. Jim was investigated, charged and is serving hard time today whereas no one knows where the neo-nazi Tim May is and no one cares. Jim Bell was arrested and charged while at the same time the pentagon was stealing the concept and renaming it ' Policy analysis markets.' Shades of the infamous theft of PROMIS software from the INSLAW company.From my reading of the cypherpunks list it peaked with the genius, Jim Bells contributions circa 1996-7 and then declined rapidly under the flaming racist meglomania of the neo-nazi Tim May. Stuff about Jim is stored at Cryptome inc trial testimony and he should be released in 2010, a prophet without honor in his own land and in his own time, Jim Bell is a latter day Martin Luther King and assassination politics is the death warrant for all governments.
Jim Bell did not write his Assassination Politics essay in 1997. It was begun in early 1995, and various chapters were written over the next year+. (One chapter was not written by Jim Bell: It was written by a journalist, writing for Asahi Evening News, in reaction to Bell's essay: Bell chose to include it in the AP essay because it was well-written and entertaining.) Finally, Jim Bell is no longer in prison, having been released March 12, 2012. If he hadn't been released, this paragraph would not have appeared.
Jamesdbell8 (talk) 04:03, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
The article says:
With the capture and imprisonment of Saddam Hussein, this remark appears to be obsolete.
-- Dominus 16:19, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I changed Hussein to King Fahd of Saudi Arabia - that seems to solve the problem raised above, and also probably constitutes a better example than Hussein, because even before his capture Iraq's participation in world oil markets was highly restricted, whereas Saudi Arabia is a massive force in oil, and so the assassination of King Fahd would likely have even greater effect.
There are two concepts of assassination markets that are used in this entry, and they are quite different. They are horribly mixed up in this article.
The first is that of a futures exchange where you can (anonymously or not) speculate on the assassination of a certain individual on a certain date. This is similar to the Policy Analysis Market that were suggested and that are highly discredited by now.
The second is that of assassins, who themselves (or their peers) profit financially from the assassinations they carry out through bets in financial markets. This is not an 'assassination market'. It is just insider trading in well-established markets.
My suggestion is to just merge this into Prediction market - and keep it there as a footnote - DocendoDiscimus 18:54, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The article seems to imply that Al Qaeda traders made a trillion dollars on shorting airline stocks after the 11 September attacks. As the NYSE total market cap is about $19.7 trillion I find it very hard to believe that any group could make 5% of this on one series of trades. I'm going to tone down this claim unless someone can come up with a reputable cite. Lisiate 01:40, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
"Certainly the expensive investigations, arrests and prosecutions of Jim Bell, Carl Johnson and Matt Taylor were not theoretical. Were enough activists to join them then the entire process of repression would have to be seriously compromised. And this 'denial of service' attack from the net would work with even more synergy if following on from any external and directly physical attack. This threat to the state is verifiable. The threat is real - albeit virtual - because first responders would be distracted."
If somebody wants a ref to the Al Qaeda debate, here it is, [2] - dont know why it has been deleted from the original version of the article. Power.corrupts (talk) 17:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't have time to look for it right now, but it seems as if this article is missing something. I came here after seeing the discussion on Jim Bell's page, but Bell isn't even mentioned on this page. The only mention is in the final paragraph...
"He began an initiative called Operation Soft Drill — a term which reporter Declan McCullagh wrote was created by Bell — with the stated intention of intimidating police and corporate polluters into respecting human rights."
It looks like an earlier reference to Bell was removed, leaving only this passing mention. I'm not familiar with the article myself, and I'm heading out for a while, but I thought I'd mention it for some of the editors who are more familiar with the article. Thanks in advance. Dayewalker (talk) 23:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I want to know about assassination-futures!!! Please add whatever you know about it! If you dont have sources, please just dump some hints here, and maybe I can dig it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.32.81 (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I've just replaced a reference that simply said the above (see this version of the article) with a 'citation needed' tag.
I'm guessing this was a Tor URL - does anybody know? And does Wikipedia really not allow these?
Let me know and I'll raise it elsewhere on Wikipedia if necessary, as being able to cite Tor sites would certainly be useful for articles like this!
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 17:52, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Original research from myself has determined the site closed in June 2014 and that the money never moved since. Alas I am not a reliable source, but I am on the only one AFAIK.
http://pirate.london/2015/11/whatever-happened-to-the-crowd-sourced-assassination-marketplace/ Deku-shrub (talk) 22:33, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
The terms of this website appear identical to the plot of an Agatha Christie book, the Pale Horse (1961). I wonder if this is relevant for the main page.
https://pirate.london/fake-blockchain-assassination-market-remembers-his-wallets-are-now-worth-1-3-773447f94b80 Deku-shrub (talk) 18:11, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for that partial agreement. See the Pirate London site for more such cases (from the US) or details. Bows. Zezen (talk) 04:34, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
This
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47747357
apart from more famous ones. Zezen (talk) 15:58, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
BBC says it was:
The documents seen by BBC Russian suggest the man who allegedly placed the order for the murder [on Hydra market], who goes by the pseudonym Miguel Morales, was being investigated by Lt Col Shishkina
while other sources are much more specific.
The first "Internet hitman requests", market-based or otherwise, date to 2004 and earlier: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2004/may/29/crime.uknews
Zezen (talk) 14:29, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
The redirect C'thulhu (assassination) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 7 § C'thulhu (assassination) until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 17:31, 7 August 2024 (UTC)