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Anshe Chung should not get this much space in the Wikipedia, since the name doesn't refer to anything in reality, and is just the name of n avatar in an online game that has a small membership and has only been around a few years
Well, the name does refer to something in reality - it is the name that someone uses to operate a business in an internet based environment. It is no different in that respect to a brand name or, for that matter, a stage name used by a musician. As far as the "small membership" is concerned, there were 40,000 user accounts in mid 2005, and around 7 million in mid 2007. I don't really think that qualifies as a "small membership". StanPomeray 12:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
And what does your name refer to? A pointless brainless wanker that nobody gives two fucks about thats what. Fuck off jealous little boy.
Opposed to Merge, as well: there is no way the reasons applied to this entry to merge/delete will withstand application to other entries for fictional representations of actual things/people. If the title of a book can have an entry, so can the title of a virtual person. If anything, this deserves its own entry more than mention in the article about SL, except in a general way that would include the less-well-known but comparably large-scale, or only the next level of scale, IMHO. 67.81.50.181 14:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I must point out that using StanPomeray's logic, since my name represents a real-life personality, a giant article about me with a length rivaling that of Anshe Chung's is warranted.--KentuckyFriedGunman (talk) 00:23, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to ask that Valery42 please refrain from attempting to re-write the paragraph about Anshe's early career in SL. Valery42 claims that "A person's private life and sexual preferences are not appropriate topics for a Wikipedia entry". My response to that is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_prostitutes - this is a page about prostitutes and not escorts, but serves to show that private life and sexual preference already exist in other entries.
Some may object to this early career of Anshe's, but it is "verifiable" through a notecard in SL that has Anshe listed as creator and has pictures of her avatar attached to it (Reference Second Life Notecard "Anshe Chung - female escort" Creation date: 2004-04-18 06:58:28). Additionally, there are many individuals who new Anshe in those early days.
None of these may satisfy verifiability, but I think that applies to the entire entry - not just this paragraph.
You anonimus idiots feel good about destroying a public individual's reputation .. I wonder where all your skeletons are hidden .. and not just on-line .. Delete the whole thing .. Real people have families and friends .. thay don't need to be slandered this way.
I have protected the page due to the edit war and due to the fact that unsourced derogatory information has been repeatedly added to the article. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 05:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I think you are allowed to post information, but it has to be sourced to somewhat reputable sources.
Here are some examples of reputable sources which have been written about Anshe Chung:
DER SPIEGEL - 17.01.06 Reichtum aus dem Nichts
Financial Times - 13.01.06 When Fantasy becomes Reality
Business 2.0 - 11.28.05 The Virtual Rockefeller
The Second Life Herald - 1.01.06 Avatar of the Year, Second Place: Anshe Chung
Associated Press - 11.21.05 Virtual Trump
Fortune Magazine - 11.28.05 From Megs To Riches
San Antonio Current - 11.10.05 New Economy, Same Rules
Information Week - 11.08.05 Online Virtual World is Part Fantasy, Part Civics Experiment
The Mercury News - 6.25.05 It Pays To Get A Second Life
The New York Times - 5.29.05 The Game Is Virtual. The Profit Is Real
Los Angeles Times - 5.16.05 Virtual Power Brokers
East Bay Express - 3.23.05 Games Without Frontiers
Here is another reputable source, posted by Guni Greenstein, the husband of the husband and wife team:
http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=82750&highlight=guni
At ANSHECHUNG.COM we believe in a Second Life world that is more than an endless random collection of land parcels. We believe in diversity, culture and places worth exploration, while at the same time empowering people to realize their own dreams.
In the new continent of Islandia we are working on a large scale consistent development that will feature different landscapes ranging from very structured areas to wild mountain ranges. As you know we do this within a very tight timeframe and within the constraints of a very competitive land market. However, we are up to the challenge and we are confident that we will be able to provide you an area that will be attractive to both land owners and visitors
http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=27199
"my land baron buddies will bash me if they find out who i am. but we barons wanna let the linden drop a lot. not all barons just the cool ones. we r all great buddies. we wanna people get cheap cash to buy up the land we r sitting on. we talked with ige and they are cool and already lowered prices. they get our lindens when we sell land. got a special deal. it is all win-win. way cool. its been decided. linden will drop below 3 bucks so u better cash out fast. yeah i sure want to panik u. but if needed we can use 5 million lindens we put aside to dump on the market. if u cash out fast we can do with dumping less but it will all go way down. u look at the market now. we just played with 300k yesterday. tomorrow is weekend we open the gates and u better run for ur buck. lol. yeah. now u get 3.70. how much u get tomorrow. better sell while u still get some cash. we are the linden money gods now. us rulez!"
Notice the almost deceptive change in posting styles, clearly these people can and are willing to manipulate their online personas.
Anyways, I hope we don't delete this page. I think pretty much everyone will agree that Anshe is a big part of history of the virtual world, a world that is increasingly becoming more important and more recognized (see above) by mainstream press everyday.
Joke thread? If you find it funny trolling the community (if you read that thread, you'll notice that no one else is sharing in 'the joke'), then yes, I guess it is a joke. However, most respectable business people do not engage in such antics.
Anyways, I am mostly pro-anshe / pro-guni, I am just trying to add some facts to this dialogue.
Adam999 .. it is actually against the SL TOS to share accounts, so officially, I doubt you're going to find a lot of sources for this. However, in order to do anything of use in SL you do need to share accounts from time to time again, so it's pretty probable that they do share accounts. I don't think you actually need to say that they do share accounts, but I think it's worthwhile adding that in order to run a business together you would pretty much have to share accounts.
First of all, Anshe did provide an escort service as part of her Second Life business career, so it is entirely relevant. Secondly, there is not reason not to include information about an individual/corporation if it is factual.
Thirdly, this talk section has clearly been edited by a number of people who have not contribued to Wikipedia much before. It is appropriate to use the Plus sign at the top of the page, near the edit this page section, to add comments to a discussion page, not to haphazardly edit with no clear way to follow the discussion.
Xinoph 17:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
oh ok, well why have an "edit this page" then?
I think you need to reference a credible resource if you wish to say that she was an escort. I think if you dig through the forum archives or new world notes you might find something, however simply saying "this is common knowledge" is rather lazy, wikipedia or not.
I went directly to Anshe and confronted her with the issue. I can only recommend doing the same. She was surprisingly open and easy going about her days as a "private entertainer" and "tea house girl". She seemed to be proud of her roleplaying, even though she said it wasn't in any way relevant to her career or success in Second Life. After listening to her, I believe that using the western terms "prostitute" or "escort" to describe what she did would be misleading, if not insulting. When talking about the actual person behind the computer one could maybe describe it as "interactive storytelling". While refering to the avatar I could imagine the terms "geisha" or indeed "private entertainer" as fitting. Not relevant to the article though. I would still leave it out.
As the original article author I feel I should chip in..
This page is marked as "biographies of living persons" and therefore is NOT about the company.
66.92.167.230 18:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC) EPThorn
Due to continuing concern over this page, I have removed most of the unsourced content. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 22:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Since there's been edit warring again, I've protected this page for now. Everyone, please be sure you cite reliable sources for the info you put in here. Material from your own personal knowledge or experience, even if true, isn't verifiable and can't be used in an encyclopedia. Also, if there's disagreement, don't just keep reverting. This talk page is for working out disagreements related to article content. Friday (talk) 21:32, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
It became obvious That Anshe and her Cohorts were simply using this page as an advertisement for Anshe's Business. It is totally Irrevelent how many areas she owns, Other services where she buys and sells other line currency. This was totally irrevelant. There are also many negative facts that have surfaced that are just as relevant as the positive ones. I recommend that only SYSOPS be allowed to edit this page for the next month or so. This should clear up a lot of things.
EDIT: Normally This Wouldnt bother me but AndreasZander is trying to say I added information to make anshe look bad, In fact I did not add anything, BUT TOOK OUT information that was advertizing and obviously put there for no other reason to advertize or spread gossip. AndreasZander is not a registered user in Second life, It should also be known that although I do participate in SL and have been there a long time. I do NOT use the name Bovar Bellow in second life. It should also be stated that like most of Second Lifes participants, I do not participate(post)in the Second Life forums either. AndreasZander is entitled to his opinions but please dont blame me for posting negative things about Anshe. They were here a long time before I showed up. I would still like to recommend that this page remain SYSOP only edit only, or Merged into the SECOND Life Page.
It should also be noted that I only started editing this page a couple of weeks ago, NOT a couple of months ago. ________________________________________________________________
AndreasZander
______
Bovarbellow is an individual who, since two months, is trying to get this page deleted or turned into something that makes Anshe look bad. This becomes quite obvious to anyone who takes the time to review his edit history on wikipedia. During all this time he has not added any relevant information whatsoever, but numerous insults and unsourced evaluations of her person. I am not Anshe nor a "cohort", but I respect her. I agree with the locking of the entry and hope that now some SYSOPS will perform real research and add sourced and balanced information to the article.
By chance I know who posted the article in the first place. He is a direct competitor of Anshe in the Second Life land market. This once more invalidates Bovarbellow's claims and shows us that somebody is here to throw mud. AndreasZander 08:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Man!
WTF are ppl doing on second life. Have they no life? Fine, but why are they puttin ACTUAL MONEY in it? How stupid is it! Morans... They only help these parasitesget rich. It sucks. Wikiperiferium shudent advertize for them. 212.149.255.90 21:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC) ~¨~~
I'm sure they have a life, a bit like people who spend time discussing Wikipedia articles (like you) also probably have a life. But if you do not play Second Life it really isn't going to impact on you, nor is it any of your business, is it? So what are people doing on Second Life? Well, some of them are just chatting on it, some of them are doing some scripting, some of them are doing 3D design, some of them are listening to music, some of them are designing clothes, some of them are running businesses. It isn't really much different from running any other web based business. They are putting money into it either because its their hobby and they want to do it, or in order to fund businesses that ultimately make profits. How stupid is that? Well, probably not particularly stupid if you want to do it. It might actually be a good idea if you ditched the idea that anyone who doesn't do something that you like is in some way flawed or stupid, because it does rather tend to make you come across like some rather ignorant 13 year old, which I'm sure wasn't the intention. Oh, and learning to spell might be useful too. StanPomeray 13:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Well don't people also sell stuff on Ebay to earn money? I feel that anyway to earn money is good. Werewolffan98 (talk) 01:15, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
I just rewrote this entire thing by hand. I'm a sufficient enough expert in Second Life and with Anshe in particular that I can be considered a "Subject Matter Expert." :) I'm welcome to suggestions/comments, but considering the vitriol this woman engineers I'd prefer they be discussed before an edit war erupts. Danke! - mixvio 04:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The passage about so called controversy behaviour was deleted because it contained no evidence at all but at lot of accusations and has to be seen as business-damaging attacks of envious person who try to get into the business themselves. The dubiously value of these accusations is obvious as they use indirect language, mention anonymous business-damaging campaingns in a way the negative touch falls on Anshe's reputation instead of the anonymous attackers and mention ridiculous statements she would not speak English well, just to transport another rumor in the same sentence.
I would like to remind of the purpose of Wikipedia and ask the community for help. Please correct the formatting of this text if I have done a mistake in this regards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.66.4.148 (talk) 09:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC).
Dear all,
Dear editors,
I would like to start a discussion about where the edge is between a fact-telling encyclopedia and a business-damaging rumors campaingn.
Due to my opinion it is necessary to give facts and references when somebody should become accused of something.
Due to my opinion it it not acceptable to e.g. write somebody can 'not speak English' well (what is not of major relevance in this context in an encyclopedia and not well measurable) just to transport some negative unproven rumors in the second part of the sentence.
Best regards, Martin Schaller
The passages which were deleted had sources to back up their allegations. Unsourced accusations would be deleted, as this is a violation of our WP:BLP policy, but if they are sourced, then the only thing that should be done is to balance them with explanations from the people who support her. Deletion of criticisms is not acceptable. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I would assume that the new article published on theage.com.au on Jan 17th, 2007 titled "Anshe's kinky past revealed" constitutes a valid source for the information people have been discussing? Random name 22:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
The SL Forums cannot be used as sources for an article for the following reasons:
Signpostmarv 17:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Web forums are not a reliable source when it comes to the verification of the notability of the subject of an article. But they are a reliable source in discussions as to what is being said about the subject of the article in those forums. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Somebody please correct the spelling of "Devaluation" on the article. At least let us make it look presentable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.161.74.241 (talk • contribs).
de:Anshe Chung has been deleted[5] for irrelevancy, so remove the link. (Don't you have a bot for that?)
The person who wrote the section on griefing is clearly a hige fan of AC, because the description exaggerates the events (dancing cartoon penises are hardly "sexually explicit"). They only present it from her point of view, and neglect to mention the controversy surrounding the way she bullied news publications into removing the pictures. She claimed the photos and videos were copyright violations, which is untrue and has no grounding in law because as a non-American citizen she is not allowed to file DMCA complaints. Could we reword the section to make it more neutral? Juansidious 22:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)2
“ | The DMCA process allows users of an online service to resolve copyright disputes using the adjudication systems available in the real world. | ” |
— SecondLife.com, https://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php |
“ | To Jason Schultz, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the issues surrounding the DMCA complaint are pretty cut and dried.
"Since the general theory (in Second Life) is that you own what you create, she completely owns the copyright in her avatar," said Schultz. "But that said, she absolutely has no rights under fair use to stop people from taking screenshots or screen captures of her avatar in Second Life." |
” |
— "The legal rights to your Second Life avatar," CNET News, http://news.com.com/2100-1047_3-6147700.html |
Yeah, this edit screwed up that section and changed it from a clear description to the vague and pov "degrading pictures." Plus, it whitewashed her story by taking out the mention of the unjustified DMCA complaint. I'm not going to just revert because it adds a source, but the old wording was much better. (I'm biased, I wrote it) Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 10:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Night Gyr, but I can not agree with your edits. I have edited it back because you took out a lot of information. The DMCA issue was only part of the whole case. -Val
Someone please incorporate this article? http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/0,1000000097,39285484,00.htm -- Wesha 16:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Though they're probably not all of the sources on the issue, a recent Something Awful Second Life Safari post has a collection of links to sites discussing the issue of Anshe vs. The Internet as far as the pictures of her violating copyright are concerned. Any way this can be used in the article?--JohnCameron 05:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
As far as I know, Somethingawful is the news outlet of the grievers who staged the attack. It is probably as neutral a source as an Al Quaida video documenting 9/11.
SomethingAwful is not "the news outlet of the grievers." If you want to use a comparison similar to the one you used, why not try this: Petey using the griefers' video on his website is akin to Al-Jazeera using a video given to them by al-Qaida leaders. He has no personal connection with the griefers and had nothing to do with the attack itself. Alabasterchinchilla 17:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
In addition, and as I noted in the paragraph starting this section, it has a collection of links to various news sources, including the Sydney-based publication that had a complaint launched against it by Graef. Of course you'd only know that if you'd actually read the link in question, I guess. --JohnCameron 23:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, I'm a noob to the whole wikipedia editing thing, but what ive failed to see on this page and the entry on Chung is any mention of Fair use laws. If images of her avatar are copyrighted, which seems debatable, images of her or the video that was on somethingawful would be protected as a kind of news story, if it wasnt just being used to make fun of her. Even if this was the case, parody is also part of Fair use, as stated in Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_v._Acuff-Rose_Music%2C_Inc.). There needs to be some mention of this as well as the acusations of bullying and also maybe the supposed deleting of the account of the somethingawful writer by youtube. have a nice day :) Hbob82 06:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I think what a lot of people don't realize is that a real photo of Ailin Graef was manipulated to make her holding a real penis and that basically the same people who used that photo filmed the video. Is it fair use when I take a photo of a celebrity, manipulate it to porn, then make a video filming that photo and then distribute it? Have there been known cases of the distribution of fake celebrity porn photos and legal actions resulting from that? Are there known cases where a court ruled in favor of "fair use" in cases of the creation of such pictures? -Val
I found an interesting article with a different viewpoint of the issue: http://secondtense.blogspot.com/2007/01/anshe-chung-griefing-lessons-learned.html talk/[[User:AndreasZander]
MrDarcy, this is a dispute that involves journalists. Their articles can not be considered objective sources in this case since they are part of the dispute. My suggestion is to get hold of the sources used by the journalists. Has the communication between Anshe and Guntram and the journalists been published?
There is also no source referenced that prooves that Anshe actually provided sex for money (= prostitution). All we know is that somebody claims to possess a notecard where Anshe called herself "escort" and offers mature services. Stuff like watching a porn movie together, erotic domination or stripping are examples of mature activities that are not prostitution under Calif. State Law.User:AndreasZander: Andreas Zander
Alright, so we've got that settled. Are there any other issues you have with the prose I wrote? Sexual explicitness is in there from his statements, and I'm pretty sure all the facts are included with references. Anything I'm leaving out or including that I shouldn't? Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 13:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
When? Where? Was it to OTRS? -- Zanimum 16:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
The griefing incident is quickly fading into obscurity and yet it is a notable part of the article. Given that this is a BLP (or a Biography of a Virtual Personality), this article could be seriously expanded in other parts. Some suggestions for sources are:
Here's hoping someone with a great interest in this topic will come and help make it better. Bastiq▼e demandez 21:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Wasn't there previously some information on this page about Anshe Chung's clients in the game complaining about her? Fissionfox 01:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Image:BUSINESSWEEK 01MAY06 COVER.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 11:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to edit images or image rationales. Could someone fix this one? Here is a suggestion:
Though this image is subject to copyright, its use is covered by the U.S. fair use laws, and the stricter requirements of Wikipedia's non-free content policies, because:
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