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"In converting German grades to the A-F scale, a 1 = A, ... 4 = D scale is often used (with 5 and 6 both converted to Fs) but this conversion is nearly never accurate, since, for example, a grade of '3' is usually more difficult to obtain in Germany than a 'B+' in the United States. In the U.S., students usually get an A if their score is greater than 90%. In Germany, students scoring more than 90% usually are in the 3 range. (The average grade in Germany is normally supposed to be around or a bit above 3, whereas in the U.S. average grades are often supposed to be between 91% and 89%.)"
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I cannot agree with this. There is a mandatory grading standard for the last two years of the Gymnasium and the Abitur exam: a grade of 15 out of 15 grade points (=1+) is awarded if more than 95% of the credits in a test have been attained, 14 points require >90% credits, etc. Thus, to receive a grade of "1", a student only needs to attain more than 85% of the credits in a test while a "3" ranges from >55% to <=70%.
It *may* be possible that U.S. test requirements are somewhat lower than those in Germany, judging from my own, rather limited, experience with the SAT Mathematics test in comparison to German Mathematics Basics Class ("Grundkurs", as opposed to "Leistungskurs", lit. "power course"), and that thus the general idea of the paragraph may be correct, but the figures are entirely wrong. An Abitur grade of 3.0 is rather bad (averages are around 2.0-2.5), while an Abitur average of 90% (756 of 840 points, 1.1) must be considered excellent, especially when taking into account that students only have very limited control over the subjects that count into the Abitur total, usually causing them to lose points in subjects that require a very specific talent, such as music, art or literature interpretation.
"The average grade in Germany is normally supposed to be around or a bit above 3, whereas in the U.S. average grades are often supposed to be between 91% and 89%.)" --> There is no way that this is correct. At one American university where I taught undergraduate classes, the average grade given is 80-83% (2.66 to 3.0 on a US 4 pt. GPA scale), with approximately 25% of students scoring a 90 or higher (3.66-4.0). The quoted section is more representative of graduate school classes, where half of students tend to recieve above 90%. Cotixan 02:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Since the grading chart is horrendously inaccurate and does not any way represent the conversions used as equivalencies by German universities, perhaps it would be better to replace the chart with an explanation of the Modified Bavarian Formula? Honestly, the nobody really thinks that a B- from an American school is equivalent to a 3.7 from a Gymnasium. Similarly, the extra weight given to British grades is senseless. Unless the chart has a source, I think it needs to go. Even if it does, I think explaining the Bavarian Formula would be useful. It converts an American "B" to a 2.5, which seems accurate. Thoughts? 198.23.71.94 (talk) 13:00, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I waited a few days and didn't hear anything back. I went ahead and made the changes. I am, of course, open to revisions but please no rollbacks. Thanks. 112.5.104.107 (talk) 09:22, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that this "grades and IQ-section" makes much sense. I really don't think that the person, who earns a "eins" at a Sonderschule (special education school) has the same IQ as the persons who earns a "eins" at the Federal School of Saxony - Saint Afra (a school for the highly gifted).--Greatgreenwhale (talk) 21:46, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
There should be some infos about the "final grade" both for university degree and gymnasium certificate, which are important for the ranking when applying for jobs, Internships ect, and which is considered if you want to study medicine or some other studies with "limited" number of participants.
hemmerling (talk) 13:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
There was some other Pedagogic Grading at the Gymnasium in the 1970th and early 1980th ( and maybe it still goes on until today ?!), to support bright students:
In my case, I got german Abitur in 1981, I was supported by the system, had no "5" on my certificates and was able to replace sports by another course with a good mark for the final certificate and the "final mark". hemmerling (talk) 13:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
At the Gymnasium, not at the university, it was possible in the 1970th and 1980th to get a mark ( or even a "final mark" ?!) "0.7" wich is better than a "1.0". hemmerling (talk) 14:34, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The article says ""This is especially true for Gymnasien in the south of Germany, which tend to have harder curricula and thus grade tougher than those in the north.""
This line should be dropped as this assumption is not backed up by anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.229.161 (talk) 17:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
There is/was the grade "ausgezeichnet" (excellent? - Mr. Burns of the Simpsons is saying that in german dubbing) for any (?) overall achievement of 1.0 in Schools, Gymnasia (EOS in the GDR) and Academia (summa cum laude, as mentioned "mit höchstem Lob"). Maybe it is not in use nowadays, except for the PhDs--78.51.141.228 (talk) 05:50, 4 October 2014 (UTC)?
I propose that this section should have a citation or better be deleted because is not supported by anything. Expressions like "Sometimes" and "rough guide" clearly indicate that this not meet the Wikipedia standard.
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Academic grading in Germany/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The article certainly includes a meaningful amount of material. It is somewhat repetitive and could use structure to make distinctions between the types of grading used. The different grading system lists are not parallel, one has the German and English text names presented side-by-side in the bullet list, the other uses two separate lists with yet another using something in between.imars (talk) 10:35, 9 September 2008 (UTC) |
Last edited at 10:35, 9 September 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 06:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Simply saying that 1.3 is equivalent to 3.7 in America, 1.7 to 3.3, 2.0 to 3.0 etc is very misleading. At the university level, usually anything below 1.5 is considered to be an extraordinarily good GPA (often in the top 10%, or even top 5%) , whereas 3.5 in America is considered good, but not outstanding (from what I've heard/read/seen so far, I may be mistaken). Moreover, 4.0 is a passing grade in Germany, meaning you can graduate with a 4.0 German GPA, whereas 2.0 is the threshold in America (the German equivalent would be 3.0 according to the table). This alone should be a reason why this is highly inaccurate. In fact, many engineering exams have an average of (or even higher) than 4.0. Please just remove that column. 155.69.180.17 (talk) 21:52, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
I believe there are 2 mistakes in that section:
1.) As correctly stated in the article, a 1+ is usually accounted as 0.7. Therefore, if one had all courses at 15 points, the Abitur would be 0.7 and not "better than 0.6". I cannot confirm that there are no official gradesbetter than 1.0 given, 0.7 is well possible in all states I know.
2.) It states that 4- (4 points) would be the highest failing grade and there were 5 points (grade 4) needed to pass. I'm pretty sure that is wrong for all states. 4 points (4-) is still "ausreichend" ("sufficient"). Dennosius (talk) 10:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
There are some tertiary education institutions (universities and universities of applied sciences), which use a 15-point grading system, such as the Hamburg University of Applied Sciences to name an example. Makkonen (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)