The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:1972 Custom Cruiser.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by ApolloBoy (notify | contribs).

• This image was tagged ((rfu)), and User:Angr processed the image, deciding it should be kept. I think this decision was in error, since the image is clearly replaceable. The disputed reason has been "Old station wagons are very hard to find. Station wagons are usually driven hard and don't survive this long. One can't just walk into a random parking lot and have any chance of seeing one of these. Even going to a car show, one would be hard-pressed to find one." This is, in my opinion, clearly insufficient.- – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 10:26, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• No argument from me. I can't even remember why I was convinced by that argument at the time. —Angr 17:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. To be sure finding a free image from the 70's might be impossible (copyleft was but a misty idea at Berkeley at the time) but we can always wait the 80 years for this to fall into the public domain. -N 01:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note the above comment was meant sarcastically. I was not actually !voting delete. -N 23:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• KEEP. As an automotive expert, I know that the vehicle depicted is a very hard to find vehicle and a fair use image of that vehicle is our best bet. It is next to impossible to find one of those in a condition sutible to describe the details of the car on an encyclopedia. I absolutely am digusted by your thinking that we can make a free image of any car on a whim. It is not that easy. Karrmann 01:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  You'll have to somehow source this claim. Unfortunately, we can't rely on your expertise. --Abu badali ^(talk) 04:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  Oldsmobile sold 25,000 1972 Custom Cruisers. As a non-collector car (just an everyday car without very high sales), there just aren't many of those 25,000 left at all, much less in photogenic condition, even if there is no definitive source to prove it. For comparison, Oldsmobile sold 220,000 Cutlasses that year, approaching ten times as many cars as the Custom Cruiser, and 1972 Cutlasses still aren't easy to find today. Again, there's no definitive source (though my production source is The Encyclopedia of American Cars, page 689), but the available data gives a very clear indication Wikipedia cannot count on a free image of a 1972 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser to appear. The fair-use image should be able to illustrate the article while a free image is searched for, and if we do somehow find one, it will of course replace the fair-use. IFCAR 12:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  Our policy does not allow us to keep a non-free image until a replacement is found or created. If a replacement could be found or created, then we just can't use a non-free one in the time-being. Also, note that the Great Pyramid of Giza is extremely rare (only one exists), and yet we can't use a non-free image of it. Being rare isn't enough; it has to be unavailable. – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 15:03, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  If there were a world-famous 1972 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser that was always in the same place and attracted millions of tourists every year, I'm sure there would be no difficulty in finding a free image of one. IFCAR 21:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  You have to admit, that would be very cool. If I had one, that's what I would do with it. – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 03:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete There is only one Terry Jones (if you only count members from Monty Python), we still don't accept fair use images of him. There are more than one 1972 Custom Cruiser's left. So definitely replaceable. Garion96 (talk) 22:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Have any of you people ever tried to find a free replacement for an image like this? When was the last time any of you saw a vintage station wagon? The last car show I went to, I saw ONE post-1960 wagon (a late '60s Buick Special), and it was modified so it would not have made an encyclopedic image anyway. The image in question is, for all intents and purposes, not replaceable. If you can prove me wrong in this case, take a picture, upload it, and we will be glad to use it. Until then, back off, please. --Sable232 23:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's amazing what free images people can find and create when there's a need for one. And it's amazing how rarely a non-free image gets replaced by a free one when we allow a non-free one to stick around. – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 03:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have personally replaced hundreds of fair use auto images, including a newer generation of Custom Cruiser. I'd much rather have the article be illustrated by an image that is not prone to deletion requests, but the alternative is the article being unillustrated, which is far worse. IFCAR 11:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment: I certainly don't mean to discount the valuable work you've done in replacing these images. – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 11:38, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. In case that wasn't clear from my previous statements. IFCAR 02:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted. "Difficult to replace" != irreplaceable, unfortunately. howcheng {chat} 17:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.