- Originally the headquarters of soap company Lever Brothers, a subsidiary of Unilever, it was the second skyscraper in New York City with a glass curtain wall, after the United Nations Secretariat Building -- are these connected ideas?
- International Style is at precisely that title, so doesn't need piping.
- On that note, could we use any sort of context here on what the International Style is?
- the building became a New York City designated landmark -- it's a bit nondescript to be a landmark, isn't it? Did anyone comment on this?
- Not particularly. The structure was designated as a landmark because it was one of the first glass-wall skyscrapers and was about to be demolished; unlike earlier NYC landmarks, it isn't particularly ornate. Epicgenius (talk) 23:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Reading through the history sections now (no comments so far -- I hope to support in a few hours or so but will probably sleep at some point), I see The firm in charge of designing Fisher Brothers' proposed building, Swanke Hayden Connell Architects, prepared a white paper for the LPC, which described Lever House as "undistinguished and not worthy of preservation". (I don't think that last comma is necessary.) Of course, some people might consider it unsurprising if the company profiting from a demolition doesn't want a building marked heritage, but since several board members had expressed their wish that the site be redeveloped more lucratively is also interesting in that context. Of course, whether this is due for the lead is a different question, but at least the uncertainty about what the board members felt and decided may be worth it? Vaticidalprophet 23:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- That is a good point to consider. I have a few responses to that:
- The last comma in prepared a white paper for the LPC, which described Lever House as "undistinguished and not worthy of preservation" was supposed to clarify that the quote is from Swanke Hayden Connell, not the LPC.
- Before the Board of Estimate was dissolved in 1990, it was very rare for the board to object to landmark status at all. Out of 1500+ landmarks that the board voted on, it overturned less than a dozen of them. The fact that the board very nearly overturned the landmark designation was quite interesting to me.
- I do think you bring up a good argument that the owners would be opposed to landmark status if they wanted to demolish it in the first place. I'll consider whether it's still worth mentioning that white paper.
- – Epicgenius (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I definitely think the white paper is still worth mentioning, was more thinking "well, obviously if all you could add to the lead is 'the company opposed it' that's not enough". But the addendum that overturning landmark status was so rare is definitely interesting -- it would be worth giving that context if you can, and mentioning in the lead that it was apparently a controversial one. Vaticidalprophet 01:01, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I've now clarified in the lead that the building was only narrowly approved as a city landmark. Epicgenius (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The Banco Santander building on 53rd Street also abuts Lever House -- any reason this gets its own sentence?
- During the early 19th century, the site of Lever House was part of a farm, which was developed later in that century with four- and five-story row houses -- unsold on the prose in this sentence. Is this also the earliest that we can trace the site?
- It's still not great at the moment (it might be better to have kept one sentence as something along the lines of "the site, formerly farmland, was developed in the [time?] 19th century with four- and five-story row houses") -- do we also, for that matter, have some sense of when in the 19th century? (Some editors and readers like to mention previous native residency, though this is very individual.) Vaticidalprophet 23:55, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Good point. I've rephrased the sentence to "The site, which was part of Charles McEvers's farm in the early 19th century, had been developed by the 1870s with four- and five-story row houses". According to the Landmarks Preservation Commission, the houses were visible in drawings from the 1870s, so they date from at least that decade. I haven't looked into the details of these houses, as I didn't think it was particularly relevant to Lever House. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Normandie theater -- should this be a proper name? (Linked?)
- Contextualizing taxpayer would be nice (it's an interesting concept, and not one I was previously familiar with).
- Prior note re. International Style context.
- To protect against adverse possession, the building's owners have closed the plaza to the public for one day every year since its completion -- how does this protect them? (I don't know that "adverse protection" is the more recognizable name vs. "squatter's rights", so that may be due to contextualize too.)
- Basically, if the property owner left the plaza open to the public 24/7, it would eventually become a publicly owned space under NYC law, since the owner of the building never reaffirmed his claim to the plaza, so to speak. To ensure that the city government knows that the space is still privately owned (and, thus, that the owner could close the plaza at any time they wish), the owner picks one day out of the year to close the plaza.It's kind of like if you let someone else drive your car whenever they pleased without ever objecting to it - at some point, the car would eventually become theirs in practice. This is just a legal version of the car situation. Epicgenius (talk) 23:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
More to come. Given the length, these are few comments in relative terms. Vaticidalprophet 14:29, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review Vaticidalprophet. I have now addressed your initial comments. Epicgenius (talk) 23:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Have commented on some of this in relation to the lead.
- preservationist Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis -- is that the title we're going with?! I see we give her a more fitting title later, and I don't know if this sentence is particularly necessary in the first place (I'm a fan of pull quotes, but it's not an especially distinctive one and it doesn't fit the paragraph's general tenor).
- Your comment made me realize that I linked Onassis twice; the second link is in the very next paragraph, where she's described as "former U.S. first lady Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis". But since you raise a good point about the quote, I've simply removed the quote. Epicgenius (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Brookfield and WatermanClark planned to market Lever House to a single large tenant or to several smaller boutique tenants -- is this vacuous? It's hard as a non-subject-expert to tell if there are actual possibilities other than "moved to one tenant or multiple tenants". Intuitively, that sounds like the only two real options. Is there some nuance being missed here?
- continental Europe.[174][61] -- would usually change ref orders myself, but I'm probably going to bed shortly after this and they can be weirdly fiddly
- especially considering that the building's floors were too small to accommodate many modern companies' needs -- what made them okay in the past but not today?
- Many large firms today would prefer to have their space on as few floors as possible. Because Lever House had only one occupant for half a century, this wasn't a problem, since the company had full control of its space and didn't have to worry about other firms' employees accidentally walking into their space. Nowadays though, the trend in NYC commercial real estate is to consolidate space onto a few large floors so employees don't have to go up or down as many flights to talk to their coworkers - they could just walk across the floor. For this reason, buildings with relatively small floor plates, like Lever House, would not be attractive to such companies.But of course, the source says none of that, so I've removed it. Epicgenius (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think that should be the lot of it. Great work, as always. Vaticidalprophet 00:05, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks again Vaticidalprophet. I've addressed your remaining comments now. Epicgenius (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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