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June 5

Category:Nobel Peace Prize laureates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. MER-C 12:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Having received one of these awards is often/always a WP:NON-DEFINING characteristic of its recipients. For people like Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King,Jr., President Barrack Obama and for many more this is hardly defining . Lists are a much better way to record this information. Shyamsunder (talk) 22:01, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't distract others from the main discussion point here is about WP:NON-DEFINING The awards are not defining for the individuals involved. Shyamsunder (talk) 22:22, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So your position is that, for example, Mother Teresa should be categorized for being on an Indian postage stamp, but not be categorized for being a Nobel laureate? DexDor (talk) 22:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So President Obama winning Noble prize is what defines him and similarly the Noble prize is a defining matter for Martin Luther King,Jr. and Nelson Mandela . The prize is mentioned or not is not a major consideration to decide if to keep or delete such categories .The non-mentioning can always be fixed by normal editing. The WP:NON-DEFINING is ultimate test and Category:Nobel Peace Prize laureates should meet that test.Shyamsunder (talk) 05:01, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Whether his Nobel prize is defining of Obama (or, for example, the EU) depends on the interpretation of WP:DEFINING (which isn't a precise algorithm providing a yes/no ruling). In Obama's case, being POTUS is a defining characteristic, having a dog isn't and having a Nobel prize falls is the grey area in between (e.g. it's currently in the lead, but only after many other facts).
In such cases (IMO) it's necessary to take a step back and to consider whether the deletion would improve wp or not. Deleting the category for the award that many (e.g. in the UK) consider to be the World's highest honor whilst keeping categories for lesser awards would leave wp in a strange position - I can just imagine the (not entirely accurate) media headlines "Wikipedia deletes Nobels, but keeps award for porn stars" - and yes, that is a form of WP:OTHERSTUFF argument. The problems caused by awards categories (such as articles being in 60+ such categories) would not occur if only the very top international awards (such as the Nobels) had categories.
"The non-mentioning can always be fixed by normal editing." is incorrect; if you put "A picture of a bird appeared on an Indian postage stamp." into the lead of the Bird article I don't think it'll last long. My position (delete stamps, keep Nobels at present) is (IMO) rather more logical than yours (keep stamps, delete Nobels). DexDor (talk) 20:54, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFF. Shyamsunder (talk) 05:03, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The double standards. Not unexpected .This , we editors from non-English speaking countries encounter all the times and that is what is driving many of them out and resulting in overall number of editors significantly going down over the years. Shyamsunder (talk) 04:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What double-standards? - I'd !vote to delete a things-on-UK-stamps category just as strongly as a things-on-Indian-stamps category. DexDor (talk) 20:54, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:HMS Cardiff (D108)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus, but if users want to remove inappropriate articles and re-nominate, that should be allowed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:00, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The purpose of categorization is to group together similar pages (e.g. articles about ships). That isn't what this category is doing; it's grouping together articles that are related to HMS Cardiff (D108) - in effect, duplicating the links between related articles. For example the article about the Gazelle shootdown should be (and is) linked to/from the article about the ship, but is better categorized in Category:Friendly fire incidents etc. For articles like Adrian Nance, that he served on Cardiff is not a very defining characteristic (he served on many other ships/establishments) and his article is better categorized in Category:Royal Navy officers (i.e. with similar articles). DexDor (talk) 21:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Being similar and being related are different things. Categorization is for the former, not the latter. DexDor (talk) 22:09, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Re "The argument put forward by the nom is in effect that the whole category scheme is redundant." - not at all; ships belong in categories for ships and naval officers in categories for naval officers. DexDor (talk) 22:26, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"The argument put forward by the nom is in effect that the whole category scheme is redundant."
I think that sums up every edit I've ever seen from DexDor. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:16, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1400s architecture

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 12:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Merge. Small single entry categories with little likelihood of growth. While these categories exist for later decades, it is not clear of the need for these or those later ones. Content by year is classified in the architecture component trees (e.g. buildings and structures) as needed. Do we really need to bring the decades and potentially years completely forward in all of the trees? This discussion did this change for the earlier centuries and is the best example to follow here. There are other related discussions which basically ended in no decision to move since multiple items were nominated. Also note that architecture is several things and as such is rather ambiguous. In the end, do we need 10 categories for 10 articles? Vegaswikian (talk) 20:24, 5 June 2015 (UTC)))[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Princes of Lotharingia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 05:23, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete. The one article in this category is also in Category:Princes of Lorraine which seemingly serves the same purpose but is much better populated. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Titles of nobility

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus on rename, but it seems that most participants here would be OK with some sort of split being performed on the contents. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This category includes not titles as duke or baron, not individual title holders as dukes, but territorial entities as duchy of Cleves‎ or duchy of Limburg‎.--Не А (talk) 17:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I can only say LOOK HARDER. Only 3 or 4 of the 11 sub-cats have any/many territories, and these are much the smallest! Specifically despots, some dukes, some princes and prince-bishoprics, and the Wildgraviates. Look at what the duchies sub-cat actually contains. I might have said "biographies or listy articles on a title", but it makes little difference. Johnbod (talk) 19:44, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • What would be your alternative rename? Because the current name is definitely worse in describing the actual content of the category than the proposed name I would be open to an alternative. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:13, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The actual content varies sharply. One alternative would be to split some of the categories into, e.g. category:Duchies (territory) and Dukedoms, which improves the English also. Johnbod (talk) 02:55, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agree on split. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:32, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Universitas 21

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 05:24, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete. This is an association of schools and we generally do not keep those. I would suggest creating a list, but it exists in Universitas 21. Navigation is well supported by that list and a template. While this association is mentioned in the articles that I looked at, nothing appeared to make this defining for the school hence no justification for keeping. Finally WP:CLT does not require that all three be used. It suggests being selective. Personally I think the list is all we need. I would not be bothered if the template also was deleted.Vegaswikian (talk) 16:10, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:20th century in Mozambique

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not rename or merge. MER-C 12:33, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: From 1498 until 1975, Mozambique was called Portuguese Mozambique (or Portuguese East Africa, or a host of other names). Ricky81682 (talk) 09:01, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:19th century in Mozambique

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not rename (matching outcome of discussion above). Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:01, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Mozambique from 1498 until 1975 was Portuguese Mozambique (or Portuguese East Africa, or a host of other names). While it's the same Mozambique for most reasons, if kept in a separate category, those categories can identify the various periods (see how Category:1498 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique fits in at Category:Establishments in Mozambique by year) which is easier to keep track of. Ricky81682 (talk) 08:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's somewhat easier to identify and distinguish Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique by year (which is lacking) from Category:Establishments in Mozambique by year if the names are different (along with within the Portuguese Empire structure). Category:History of Mozambique already contains the Portuguese Mozambique category which has conflicts, years and other things that generally reflect a separation. It seems inconsistent to have a separation for some parts but not for years, establishments and disestablishments when it's possible to feasibly make it coherent. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 21:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agree that it should be consistent though I think making it consistent the other way around would be better, namely treating "Portuguese Mozambique" as a period in the history of Mozambique rather than as the name of the country within that same period. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:03, 10 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree to that as a general principle, but in this case I'm just wondering, since Mozambique has apparently been the name of the territory for a longer period of time, and since there aren't any disambiguation issues, if adding the "Portuguese" adjective is really needed here.. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:59, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The entire main article is at Portuguese Mozambique; the history, the battles, everything stems from that article. Using just Mozambique and somehow linking to the Portuguese article will break every template for hundreds of pages for very little difference. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:10, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tunisian saints

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Saints from Roman Africa (province); if any of the articles do not belong there, move them to Category:African saints. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:. The Tunisian nationality didn't exist in Antiquity.
Note: its child Category:Saints from Roman Africa (province) doesn't have to be upmerged (that's why the proposal says selectively) because it's already in Category:Roman-African saints. So the nomination actually only concerns the other child Category:Saints from the Vandal Kingdom. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:39, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not really; they were all Romans who were persecuted immediately after the Vandal conquest. Johnbod (talk) 21:58, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Moroccan saints

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Roman saints from Africa (continent) and Category:Mauretania Tingitana. If a user wants to create Category:Roman Saints from Mauretania Tingitana, that could happen. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:58, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge. The Moroccan nationality didn't exist in the Roman Empire.
Note: one of the target categories, Category:Roman-African saints may have been renamed to Category:Roman saints from Africa (continent) while this discussion closes. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Renewers of the church

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 05:25, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete in the spirit of WP:OCAWARD, it is an honorary title. Listification has already taken place in Renewers of the Church. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bahraini uprising (2011–present)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per current title of the article, Bahraini uprising of 2011 George Ho (talk) 07:50, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

A few more award categories

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Order of the White Rose of Finland (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Grand Crosses of the Order of the Redeemer (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Order of the Three Stars, 1st Class with Chain (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of St. Olav (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the Netherlands Lion (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the White Elephant (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Order of the Star of Karađorđe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCAWARD, per WP:NONDEF, per previous discussion and many discussions before. Most of these categories mainly contain heads of state, high ranked military and politicians to whom the granting of the order is merely a gesture. The first of the nominated categories (White Rose of Finland) has more variety in professions but nevertheless the award is entirely non-defining.
Note on the side: I found this article Milunka Savić in the last of the categories above, which on its own doesn't justify the existence of the entire category, but perhaps some other, more defining, category may be created for people like her. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:04, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Christian saints by denomination

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: change inclusion criteria. I will leave that to @Marcocapelle: to ensure that it's implemented. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Change per WP:OVERLAPCAT. In the header I've boldly added "Saints should not be categorized in any of the denominations subcategories if they are recognized as a saint by both the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches." and hoping to find consensus about that. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches have by far the largest amount of saints and I suggest that saints who are recognized by both these denominations to be 'general Christian' saints rather than saints of any particular denomination. This nomination is in line with consensus in this earlier discussion but the nomination contradicts [[1]]this revert. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Project Saints has been informed about this nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC) [reply]
  • Post-reformation Roman Catholic or Anglican saints won't be celebrated by the Orthodox Churches so they would need to be in the 'by denomination' tree anyway. The same applies for Lutheran saints. So I think that these issues are properly addressed by the new inclusion criterion. The only problem with the proposal - if any - are the earlier splits of the Coptic and Assyrian Church, because with this new rule unique-Coptic saints and unique-Assyrian saints would go into their own denomination category, while late antique and early medieval 'general Christian' (Catholic+Orthodox) saints wouldn't. Just because of the size of the Coptic and Assyrian Church relative to the Catholic/Orthodox Church it doesn't seem unreasonable to grant them an own saints category a few centuries earlier. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Edasseri Award

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:17, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Edasseri Award (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Vallathol Award
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Muttathu Varkey Award
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Vayalar Award
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Odakkuzhal Award
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Asan Smaraka Kavitha Puraskaram
  • Propose deleting Category:Recipients of the Kalidas Samman
Nominator's rationale: Having received one of these awards is often/always a WP:NON-DEFINING characteristic of its recipients; many of the articles in these categories (e.g. Joy Mathew, Anand (writer)) make no mention of the award and in other articles (e.g. Paul Zacharia) it's just one of a list of awards received. Lists are a much better way to record this information (e.g. they can be referenced) and those I've checked already have lists (e.g. Edasseri Award#Recipients and Vallathol Award#Awardees). See also WP:OC#AWARD. For info: the same editor then went on to create a category for "flora and fauna on Indian postage stamps" (CFD) for articles like Sparrow (which is, quite frankly, absurd categorization) - this suggests that the existence of categories for awards recipients may have confused the editor about the basic principles of wp categorization. DexDor (talk) 05:59, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFF. DexDor (talk) 16:33, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Filipino music groups

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Philippine pop music groups which is the parent category and undoubtedly the intended target of the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:02, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Bluemask (talk) 05:34, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Molluscs of Portugal

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 12:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
other categories to be merged
Nominator's rationale: That, for example, Blue mussel or Mediterranean mussel is found in a particular European country is a WP:NON-DEFINING characteristic. If it is found only in one region then an endemic category can be used. For info: example of a previous similar CFD: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_17#Category:Arthropods_of_Italy. DexDor (talk) 05:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A non-endemic category should not be merged into an endemic category. DexDor (talk) 16:13, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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