The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. GlassCobra 08:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of shopping malls in the United States[edit]

List of shopping malls in the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This particular list has been AfD twice, both times with no consensus. It is intended to be a list of all of the shopping malls in the US that have articles. As per its own intro, there are almost 50,000 such malls, and more and more are getting some kind of article, which is the only criteria for inclusion here. Having stumbled on this list while working on a mall article, and having been the only person to really bother watching and maintaining it for almost two months, I feel this list should be deleted. Despite the claimed restriction of notability in its intro, nothing was ever done to actually enforce such a limit, despite arguments that it would be dealt with in both previous AfDs. Most states already have an existing List of malls in STATE list that better covers those states, while more specific lists, like List of largest shopping malls in the United States already better cover notable malls. Category:Shopping malls in the United States also better handles this topic. This list is really no better than a directory. Collectonian (talk) 19:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The intent seems to be a list of malls in the US which have a Wikipedia article about them, but that's better handled by a category then by a list. A list would be appropriate if we wanted an actual list of all malls in the US (regardless of whether they have WP articles about them or not), but the list itself admits that that would be impractical. Chuck (talk) 20:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per above. This would be a highly unmanageable list if it tried to contain all the malls in the US, past and present -- not to mention that some inclusions might be debatable. Would a power centre count? A strip mall with an enclosed wing? A mall that's still open but almost entirely vacant? Etc. This is definitely a directory of loosely associated topics. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 20:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malls-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 20:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete.
  1. By the article's own admission, a mall has to be notable to be listed in it. But it has to be notable to have an article about it to begin with.
  2. For other malls (the non-notable ones, I presume), the article invites the reader to consult the category (duh, that's where I would have thought of looking first). But if they are not notable, they won't be found in the category either. Or maybe in an AfD of their own (and we've had many of those lately).

I think the above two points defeat the very purpose of this article. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 21:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. --Caldorwards4 (talk) 22:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep
  1. It has been nominated twice for deletion. Why nominated it a 3rd time? What has changed since the second time since now that it needs to be nominated again? What has changed since the first time and now that it had to be nominated twice more? What is the difference from this list and the "list of Wikis"? They have to be notable to be in the List of wikis. Any wiki added that doesn't already have a page is quickly deleted from the list. --Mjrmtg (talk) 22:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete there's precious little extra here over a category, most entries have no additional content, the ones that do have things like "The Mall at Turtle Creek - Jonesboro - only enclosed mall [in Arkensas, I presume] to open in 2006". Arbitrary collection, mall cruft, plus agree with TenPoundHammer's concerns. Pete.Hurd (talk) 22:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Actually, per Turtle Creek's article, it was indeed the only enclosed mall in the whole USA to open in 2006. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 23:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep This article is a very important list for Wikipedia. If this is deleted, the List of shopping malls article will be cluttered with all of the malls in the United States. ComputerGuy890100^Talk_Polls 22:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That wasn't an article. That was a category. And that's what we want here. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 22:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per the first two paragraphs at WP:CLN Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 23:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• NEUTRAL After consdierable thought I cannot argue either for or against the removal of this list. However I STRONGLY URGE that if this article is to be deleted, each state listed in theList of largest shopping malls in the United States list should be compared and missing information should be consolodated. I've personally worked on this article and added malls that are not listed in theList of largest shopping malls in the United States list. Kcuello (talk) 15:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, it's a perfectly acceptable topic for a list. WP:CLN says "Many users prefer to browse Wikipedia through its lists, while others prefer to navigate by category; and lists are more obvious to beginners, who may not discover the category system right away." The nominator gives no convincing reason for deletion. The nominator says "Most states already have an existing List of malls in STATE list that better covers those states" and there's no reason why those lists cannot be linked to from this list. --Pixelface (talk) 16:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and should any state sections get too long, move to their own list articles as per Appropriate topics for lists. DoubleBlue (Talk) 22:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or permanently semi-protect. In the past, I previously made major contributions to this article, regularly cleaned out the less notable malls, and defended it against both vandals and prior deletion nominations. But with the benefit of experience, I now believe that its purpose is better met by Wikipedia's category system as well as state-specific lists. If it is to remain, it should be semi-protected so it will be easier to defend against vandals. --Coolcaesar (talk) 06:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and Create a CatagoryCreate a catagory such as malls in the United States. We have categories for a reason, people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metallic95 (talk • contribs) 19:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Obviously people use this page or none of us would have been compelled to come here to leave a comment on weather or not it should be deleted. As for upkeep, allow it to be kept up like every other article in Wikipedia. When someone gets a hair up their butt to make a new shopping center or mall page, they will stumble upon this page and add the article they just created. I think it is a great resource seeing as searching for a comprehensive list of all the malls in the US on Google brings you here. If you still think that it has the ability to become too large, then maybe it can be broken up by the state, with this page being a re-direct to each state's own pages of shopping malls. It is obviously a long page and gets a lot of attention, so it shouldn't be deleted... Chexmix53 (talk) 21:35, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, no different than a category since it doesn't mention non-existing articles. Article requests should be brought up to WP:MALLS and WP:RETAIL anyways. Tuxide (talk) of WikiProject Retailing 23:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or change to category. I don't know what the near-50K figure from the Dallas Morning News was in reference to, but it must have been shopping centers of _any_ kind. This list seems to be limited to major enclosed shopping malls, and from looking at locations I'm familiar with, it is consistent with what I would consider "malls". Squidfryerchef (talk) 20:27, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep It is a great, comprehensive resource to have that isn't easily found in too many other places, and adds great value to Wikipedia and the Internet for those interested in researching shopping centers. It's great to look and compare and see all the different malls we have in the U.S. If the issue is mantaining the article, than we should maintain it, not delete it. Abog (talk) 00:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Wp:List and per the arguments to avoid bit about repeated nominations. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 18:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.