The result was delete. We gave this another week but we still have no cast iron reliable sources to rely on for this product. Keep arguments are mostly vague waves at sourcing or assertions and neither of these are sufficient to overcome the clear evidence from the delete side that reasonably thorough searches have failed to turn up anything substantial we can rely on. S.marshall has found a product comparison chart that he views as one source but has nothing more. Dreamfocus provides what they assert is a second source but this is debunked by Phil Bridger as an advertising supplement so this isn't enough. What else here? I can't accept DGG's argument that we can simkply fill the article with manufacturer sources product description as is skirts over the requirement to first show notability to keep the argument. With regard to a redirect, I don't think I need to find on that as its an editorial action not an adminstrative one but I am taken by DGG's argument that we should not merge to the main article as this material is too product specific for that. So, on balance, the consensus based on policy is that we do not host this material because there is not quite enough sourcing to meet GNG/N although V is met. I find no consensus on a redirect so will leave that for editorial judgement. Spartaz Humbug! 09:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2012 December 6. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
Disputed prod, difficulty in locating RS to establish GNG, written somewhat as an ad Nouniquenames 23:37, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The Highbeam articles appear to be nothing but press releases. These are not "historical products". They are not notable. These wiki articles appear to be created by ad agencies. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 19:52, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I also find little merit in the view expressed by Sue Rangell. Her comments focus on the current state of the article rather than its potential state, which is clearly the wrong approach. We don't delete material because it's bad. We delete material because it's bad and unfixable.
Many of the google books results are passing mentions of no interest, and a significant number of them arise from full page ads in networking magazines that were taken out by Avaya. However, I see that on page 45 of Network World Magazine, Vol 19 No 8 dated 25 February 2002, there is a clear product comparison in tabular form; this is in large type on a coloured background and very clearly treats at least one variant of the Avaya Definity as a significant type of product. I also see that the independent reviewer scores it well against its competitors. If I'd found a second such thing, I would take that as clear evidence of notability. I have not.
I also want to say that if we distilled everything from those sources into an encyclopaedia article, we'd have about four sentences. Tops. It's right that such things, even when they're notable, should be consolidated into another article that contains a more useful amount of information.
From the fact that I can find one but only one source, I conclude that this article concerns a subject which is verifiable but not notable. It should not have a standalone article. The outcome of this debate cannot be "keep". However, per policy we should exhaust the alternatives to deletion before turning this title into a redlink, and I observe that there are good alternatives available, so the outcome of this debate cannot be "delete". I conclude that we should replace the content with a redirect to Avaya#Products.—S Marshall T/C 12:46, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]