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The following was deleted from the page "Critics argue that the school trains attendees in practices such as genocide, massacres of civilians, and egregious human rights violations, "Who are these critics and what is their first hand information concerning what is being taught at the shool? According to WHINSEC the school has never in its history taught any type of terrorigation techinques of any kind. To put this information in as fact simply because some organization makes an accusation is not proof. One of the main purposes of the creation of WHINSEC was to have a school which from its very beginnings was adament about properly reviewing any materials that were used by the school and removing any training that would raise questions of human rights abuse. (Just for everyone's information: One of the biggest drums being beat to attack the former School of the Americas is the "torture manuals". The SOA "torture manuals" often talked about were never used as instruction materials but were additional reading materials provided by a fromer instructor from another school. The school included them in their additional reading materials without reviewing them assuming they didn't not contain innapropriate materials. When it was brought to their attention that they did they recovered and destroyed them. That was an action taken by the school after the school realized the mistake.) I know these things because I traveled to the school for eight years and personally investigated most of the accusations.) If this defaming materials is to be returned to the page it should requre that somewhere there is found one person who will testify that they were taught any kind of interrorigation techniques at WHINSEC. If not what may or may not have been taughts at SOA has nothing to do with what is presently being taught at WHINSEC. This is an article about WHINSEC and not SOA. -- (talk) 03:40, 17 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChaplainSvendsen (talk • contribs) 16:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
"This is an article about WHINSEC and not SOA."
"School of the Americas" directs to this page on Wikipedia. I never heard of WHINSEC but this is the page I got when I entered "School of the Americas" into a Wikipedia search. As to who the critics are --- they are anyone who knows the least bit about the School of the Americas and it not a right wing thug. ---Dagme (talk) 10:04, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
This page is currently SERIOUSLY BIASED towards the school. There is almost no mention of the countless massacres and killings that the school's graduates have committed. There is no mention of the anti-union activity that the students are trained in. And, most of all, there is no mention of teh annual march against the school in which thousands participate every year, and in which dozens commit acts of civil disobedience in protest of the school. I have tagged this articl for disputed neutrality, and it would be great if someone researched the topic a little bit more and changed the article so it represented the reality of the school instead of the official government opinion. If no one else changes it, I'll have to. And soon.TrogdorPolitiks 20:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I would say it is POV in this manner: Most people who know about the School of the Americas/Western Hemispher INstitute for SEcurity Cooperation know about it because of the attrocities committed by graduates and the high number of future dictators it graduated and not what the institution says of itself. There is no reason to give the institution's POV of itself at 50% of all content. This type of thinking gives government a de facto veto on all such content. And that's just speaking of a US centric POV. Move beyond the US and the SOA/WHINSEC's POV of itself would be a much, much smaller minority. Unless of course US POV are the only views that matter. I don't think that is what wikipedia is about. LobotRobot 21 December 2006
The writing style of this article is a complete embarrassment. It is so thoroughly biased toward the school as to approach complete self-satire. EVERY point in the criticism section is followed by pro-SOA/WHINSEC replies. This is not seen in reverse in the other sections. A total rewrite of this article is needed, although it appears that the school and-or its supporters will not allow it based on a careful review of the changes. Mac.bh (talk) 06:51, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I think the main problem is that the "History" section is mostly in favor of the school, where in fact there's not much about the actual "history", while controversial parts of the history are only on the criticism part. I mean, for and against are in 2 separate parts, while "history" should be "history", representing both positive and negative sides.This part should be rewritten in order to match with the title of the section.--Desyman44 (talk) 21:52, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
In reference to the first posting in this section about the page being biased, I just did an analysis of my own. Including the lead section which I just edited, this page contains 553 words about WHINSEC and 1,659 words about USARSA, persons attending training at USARSA, SOA Watch and other US training schools. To me, this shows that the majority of the material on the page is not about WHINSEC at all, does that make any sense to other contributors or to Wikipedia monitors? Additionally, there are 40+ sources referenced at the bottom of the page, approx 6 are to WHINSEC or government sites that have information about WHINSEC, 3 or 4 are "dead links." The remaining are, again, references to articles, information and/or websites that are not about WHINSEC. In fact, the more I research about the Institute, the more that i see that this page really doesn't say much about the Institute at all, where is the value in that. In my opinion, there are 3 or 4 pages mixed together here, which further confuses anyone who would come here for verifiable information. 56CommonSense (talk) 21:45, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Forgot to mention the "further reading" section. Not one listing here is about WHINSEC. This information belongs on a USARSA page or some other relevant page as I stated previously. 56CommonSense (talk) 21:47, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
The source for this is an unsourced blog which is not a WP:RS. It was in fact Congress who changed the organization and name by law, the 2001 Defense Authorization Act, 10 USC, Sec 2166. It may have been the Pentagon who was behind the proposal for the changes that the Congress voted on but this would require a RS. As such I will removed this statement unless there are sourced objections.Ultramarine (talk) 12:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Not found on the webpage of WHINSEC, in contrast to the seal, and it does not list from where it was taken, so unless a source is given it will be removed.Ultramarine (talk) 09:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
The picture is of the shoulder unit patch which is worn on the uniforms of those stationed at the school. Here is the reference to verify that. http://www.acuarmy.com/western-hemisphere-inst-for-security-acu-patch-p-1897.html The unit patch is different from the school crest. (67.173.129.228 (talk) 22:03, 16 November 2012 (UTC)) Chaplain Svendsen
the use of the maltese cross makes this ensign appear to be supremacists; not sure why, it's just the vibe! not having a go at maltese its just the fascist elements of the catholic church love the maltese cross. love the garb of the maltese guard at the vatican! Anyway the USA is WASP that what separates it from the rest of the 'western hemisphere'. Canada always get left out but you mob are heaps scott and franco. the US is more WASPie than anywhere in the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.198.82.50 (talk) 11:37, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
Not sure if this belongs under the Controversy section, but the Punk Rock band Anti-Flag has a song called "School of Assassins (SOA)" a clear reference to this topic I think is worth adding somewhere 76.190.164.114 (talk) 05:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Not really my lane, but I find this whole discussion page quite interesting. Anyway I work in the United States Army and have had associations with WHINSEC and I can tell you the image of the crest displayed here, is the patch worn by WHINSEC instructors and personnel at Ft. Benning. I know it doesn't appear on their website, because that is not important for them to advertise. However, if you google search "WHINSEC patch ACU", you will see the top five hits return as various commercial forms of the crest depicted here. It is being sold to personnel and instructors at the school for wear on the left shoulder of their uniform, where Army units typically display their "unit identification badge". I assure you it is quite real. http://www.rangerjoes.com/Patch-WHINSEC-Dress-P1997.aspx http://www.acuarmy.com/western-hemisphere-inst-for-security-acu-patch-c-5231_2163_2126.html http://www.usamilitarymedals.com/western-hemisphere-inst-for-security-acu-patch-p-1897.html I am not sure if this is considered a verifiable source, all I am saying is that the crest is in fact the symbol for the Institute and thus, you should find a way to include it in your page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.236.121 (talk) 04:25, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I added some information that were missing, by translating from Italian Wiki[1]. I think that if on that version the information are not considered violation of POV, they arent as well on the English one. I am still working on it anyway.--Desyman44 (talk) 17:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I have a photo of what SOA looks like now (hotel) if that might add to the page?--Abarratt (talk) 17:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Please edit it, anyone who can speak Japanese :)--124.155.16.92 (talk) 06:36, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I added a picture of Posada Carriles at the time of his education in Fort Benning. at the time the school was in Panama, but Fort Benning is the actual location of the academy. That's why I chenged in the beginning my own edit from "in the school" to "here", of course referring to Fort Benning. --Desyman44 (talk) 13:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
He and Jorge Mas Canosa attended Fort Benning but not SOA. 68.193.173.240 (talk) 04:01, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Ultramarine made an edit to introduction [2], claiming there is a NPOV, without stating which one, since all information has source, they are not dissimilar to other wiki versions, they tell neutrally facts.
It now looks like this:
This is denied by the WHINSEC and supporters who argue that the alleged connection is often weak, such as taking a single course on Radio Operations and human rights violations many years later. The education now emphasizes democracy and human rights. [6][7][8]
Since: 1. Saying the connection is "often weack" can be considered a NPOV, since the only provided case of weak connection is the one of Roberto D'Aubuisson. I doubt, anyway, that this can be considered a "weack connection", since he actually was fully graduated there - independently from the specialization course he attended - as all of the "Notorious graduates", and not a sporadic contact. The fact that years passed from his graduation, I dont think can be brought as justification. Graduation is not like milk, that then you throw away. One remains a graduate till he dies...or have I to repeat my study in 10 years to have it confirmed???
2. "such as taking a single course on Radio Operations" is given as a general statement, while it does correspond just to D'Aubuisson. This is, anyway, explained later on, in the "according to SOA Watch" section, where this information seems more appropriate since states who is the person in the case.
3. That "The education now emphasizes democracy and human rights" is given as stated, while this is only wht DIRECT SOURCES, that should be avoided but here are widley used, do say. Sources, in fact, are: the official website (6), an article quoting the school's officials (7), another article where I dont find traces of the words "human rights" or "democracy", but rather talks about the case of D'Abuisson (8). "Emphasize", in fact, seems not neutral, but rather a personal consideration. More neutral would be stating the fact, more reliable, that 8 hours of Human rights and democracy education has been introduced in curricula, or at least write that the "emphasizing" is in supporters'/officials' words.
Then I suggest to: - restore the previous version;
-in alternative, to find a compromise such as: This is denied by the WHINSEC and supporters who argue that the education now emphasizes democracy and human rights and that the connection with the school is in some cases weak. --Desyman44 (talk) 16:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
--Desyman44 (talk) 16:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
My observations on the discussion above. There can be no disputing a fact about whether or not a soldier attended training at an American school nor what courses he/she attended. It is documented and cannot be denied. The second fact that cannot be disputed is that, for those soldiers who have been convicted of the crimes, the record is clear and undeniable. As an academian myself, I can't wrap my brain around the concept that completion of an American training course is the undeniable cause for the crimes that these soldiers committed. Where is the verifiable proof? I would march on Washington if I had something like that but, I'm sorry, there isn't anything posted on this page that removes the doubt. Statements from those convicted that said the training they received in the US made them do it, or perhaps a US or International instructor who made an official statement that they told them to commit these crimes would be the only way I could see that we would know for sure. The more I read the postings here, the more frustrated I am becoming with information posted based on assumptions or conjectures without any verifiable documents. This looks to be more a debating page on the topic than an encyclopedia page, which is what it is intended to be. How about contributors stick to the facts we can put about WHINSEC here. Perhaps there should be a USARSA page or a US Military Training page that would be titles that are more all-encompassing for the info posted here that doesn't apply to WHINSEC. 56CommonSense (talk) 21:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to learn more about the training manuals posting on the page and the oversight committee report mentioned. When I followed the link, it took me to a page on the SOAW website that talked about the event and had some quotes from the briefing/report but did not contain any citation and/or link to the report or a link to where they got the information in their article from. How am I supposed to know what is the truth without a verifiable source? I teach some online courses and I crush my students when they do not cite their work. Wikipedia is trying to improve the quality of the information on its pages so that more schools, Universities and such will recommend it as a reference. It is irresponsible citations such as #16 that contribute to reader's perceptions that the information on Wikipedia pages is not reliable. Contributors please, only provide real citations/references to the true sources of information, otherwise it is unusable. Until that link is fixed or replaced, it should remain disconnected. 56CommonSense (talk) 22:03, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Let's say the school does train soldiers in rendition type techniques (and I'm not asserting that, only that there are legitimate reasons to question). Does anybody really think the school would supply training manuals that cover "interrogation procedures when all else fails" to the public upon request, or list courses such as "Torture 101" on their website? Transparency has never been our strongsuit. Just sayin'. Lulu de St. Etienne (talk) 18:21, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
To respond to this last paragraph when WHINSEC was created it was by design that no interroigation techniques of any kind be taught at the school. Lessons learned from the past dictated that this fact be closely monitored and that the school be as open and transparent as possible so there were no doubts. Becoming an advisor to the school starting shortly after their opening I was part of the discussions, which took up a significant percentage of the work of the Board Of Visitors (The oversight board)concerning ways the school could allow close inspection of its activities. Of course this didn't stop constant demands for congressional investigations into the school by those who fear that there were deranged warmongers hiding behind every door waiting to teach torture and human rights violations. The school teaches leadership skills and the classes are in many cases idential to those offered to our armed forces, only in Spanish. Having served 27ys in the military both as enlisted and as an officer I can tell you that absolutely none of my classes taught me torture techniques. So tell me lulu do you think that WHINSEC is the only possible place and means that such techniques could be taught? 67.173.129.228 (talk) 14:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I have removed the POV tag since the user who added it, even after I invited him/her to leave a comment on this talk page, did not explained why and what his/her proposal were, therefore only adding the template without allowing any possible resolution of the dispute as no dispute actually started.--Desyman44 (talk) 19:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
"Notions that the school has really changed, except in name, are generally absurd". And you know this how? I became an advisor to the shool around a year after it opened and worked with them for eight years. What is your point of reference as to what was and was not taught at the school. I reviewed each year the curriculum that was being taught and interviewed both students as well as teachers. I was there to help them through the process of the translation of everything into English so it could be reviewed and closely scrutinized for any objectionable materials with the goal of being more transparent. I met with the creators and was part of the oversight for the develpment and implementation of the Human Right Protection training program. I was there to see the development of the anti drug enforcement training with its strong element of protecting innocent civilians and protecting the environment when assaulting and shutting down drug labs. I walked the site and instructors explained the training to the advisors and board members. I was there for the implementation of the "Shoot Don't Shoot" training program designed to encourage police and military to assess a situation involving armed conflict and criminal activity and making sure innocent civilians or criminals about to surrender are protected and the use of armed violence is not the first option considered. I tried to include these things in the article and much more and it was repeatedly removed while accusations unproven to be connected to anything the school taught where repeatedly included. If a graduate from the school committed a criminal action / human rights violating action which book used at the school taught them that and which class or instructor was the source of that learning. I can tell you most emphatically that in the eight years I worked with the school that there were some huge changes taking place in the school and the work that they did. The most profound of which was not only the inclusion of human rights materials and training but an emphasis in which it became the foundation upon which everything else was taught. Chaplain Kent (67.173.129.228 (talk) 22:27, 16 November 2012 (UTC))
I just read this last posting above. Again, looking to be objective and stick to verifiable facts, I am bothered by this statement as a reason to post something here "Notions that the school has really changed, except in name, are generally absurd. The new "human rights" courses are nothing but a whitewash." I would like to know what this statement is based on and if there is any verifiable material to back it up. When I read it, it appears to be an opinion statement or a point of view. Has the contributor ever visited the institute or talked with anyone there, US or International? This would be the best way to verify what the human rights courses are like. It appears that WHINSEC regular has members of the IRC and even Human Rights Watch participating in their training, conferences and their "Human Rights Week." What do they say about the human rights training? The other statement "Members of the Honduran Miliary were seen there recently, even *immediately after* their participation in a coup that ousted democratically-elected leader Manuel Zelaya." The history of the Institute and the records of student attendance that are found on their federal advisory committee website (open to the public) shows that Honduras has had students at WHINSEC annually for most of the courses they offer and Honduras also provides some instructors regularly, so I would expect that on any given day, you will find students and/or instructors from Honduras at WHINSEC. So that being the verifiable history of Honduras at WHINSEC (see the SECDEF annual report to congress on the faca website) how does that have any connection with the Honduran Coup? If there is any verifiable evidence that we can use here to show that those Honduran military members that participated in the Coup did so because they were trained or directed to do so because of their attendance to any American school or institute, let's look at it here. If not, then the posting above must be based on opinion and/or assumption and has no place in Wikipedia, according to their policies. Finally, I would again bring to all contributor's attention the fact that the material in question here is about Army training institutes in existence long before WHINSEC was established. I don't understand how it applies to WHINSEC. 56CommonSense (talk) 21:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
"The School of the Americas has been criticized concerning the human rights violations performed by a number of its graduates"
I deleted WHINSEC from the sentence because the reference given while it does mention SOA it does not mention WHINSEC. Also the facts do not match this statement. Of the WHINSEC students who have been accused of wrong doing the list is not "numberous" but very small. And of the accused wrong doing of the former students most were for criminal acts other than human rights abuses. Finally if you look at the reference given to verify the information that reference while it does mention SOA it does not mention WHINSEC. ChaplainSvendsen (talk) 03:46, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
You said: "there's no dirty war going on anymore in latin america" and that is why there are no accusations of human rights abuse against WHINSEC. That is what you said. So if there had not been any "dirty wars" going on during the time SOA was in existance would that also mean that there would not have been any accusations against SOA? Do you see how faulty that reasoning is. "No NGO changed attitude the day after SOA turned into WHINSEC." Sorry that is not true. You have been believing the misinformation which groups like SOA Watch have been handing out. There was a radical change when SOA was eleminated and WHINSEC was created. And in fact since the beginning WHINSEC has continued to evolve in many positive ways. Examples of this are: "Shoot, Don't Shoot" training. (I actually was allowed to participate in one try of their computer weapons training program.) How to determine if somebody with a weapon is a threat to you or not. So you don't shoot first and ask questions later. Their Anti-Drug Task Force Training. Which includes how to recognize innocent civilians and protect them from harm around remote drug labs. Also how to handle toxic and potentially environmentally hazardous waste on the sites. Finally cooperation between nations so that one country can pass off or receive permission to cross a border to arrest drug traffic offenders. Next The Human rights protection training which became mandatory for all students at WHINSEC. Followed by the "Train the Trainer" program which is producing Human Rights Protection trainers who return to their country to give the training to the nation's military and police forces. The Vetting system which is probably one of the best prevention tools for any soldier hoping to gain higher level ranks. For many graduating from WHINSECs Command And General Staff course (it has since been renamed) is the only way to be promoted to the higher level ranks. For the Central and South American service members its the equivalent of a US soldier graduating from West Point as concerns future career possibilities. Potential students tread very carefully so as to no be accused of human rights abuse and even being a part of a unit with human rights abuse accusations against it can prevent one from being accepted as a student. I could give much much more information. But can you see how WHINSEC is not SOA even though they both train(ed)common leadership courses all of which are also used by our armed forces for US military. (I know all of this because I spent 27 years in the military and have had some of those exact leadership training courses. I also know all of this because as a peace and justice advocate I spent 2000-2008 traveling to the school each year investigating, asking questions of students and teachers, reviewing materials, and serving both as an advisor (2000-2004) and then as a Board Of Visitors member (2004-2008). What I find incredible is that Wikipedia will accept radical groups with a political agenda like SOA Watch which in many ways has little use for the truth as valid references. Then on the other hand refused to allow references from the school itself and individuals like myself who have actual first hand knowledge to be used. All of what I have writtn above at one time or another I posted into the article and it was removed without any discussion or comment. ChaplainSvendsen (talk) 18:48, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
I removed this section for lack of relevance. According to the info posted here, this issue was addressed by DOD in 1996. Manuals were destroyed, removed from inventory in 1991, a decade before WHINSEC was established. WHINSEC never distributed these manuals. Posting here misleads readers that there is a connection. 56CommonSense (talk) 15:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Here's what I find amazing. There are complaints that any reference to SOA are taken from the article and the insistance that accusations and slander concerning the former school (SOA) be included in the article and then when I include information enlightening people about just exactly what did take place back they are removed because there is no "connection". So is there a connection between the former SOA and WHINSEC or not. If not then there should be no reference to SOA in the article and if there is then relevant material explaining just exactly what happened is quite appropriate. So the editors need to decide which way they want it and either include both or exclude both. (67.173.129.228 (talk) 21:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC))Chaplain Svendsen
I realize that it states that this is not the place to have a discussion about the article. That is not my purpose here. My purpose is to prevent ongoing battles of people adding things only to have them removed. The guidelines state that any materials which are posted need to be "verifiable" and that the writing be "neutral". So here's my contention. If I read the materials and they appear to be attacking rather than "neutral" then that is a reason to remove or change it. Also, who decides what source is a legitimate source. I do not consider SOA Watch a reliable or truthful source. So unless somebody from Wikipedia can give me a good reason otherwise if the source is SOA Watch I can take that material out because SOA Watch is not a legitimate source. My rationalization for that is simple. If Wikipedia articles are supposed to be "neutral" then I'm assuming that the sources should not be organizations who's only goal in life is to attack, defame, and eleminate the subject. i.e. SOA Watch. Surely there are other sources which can be found to verify the materials.
Next I want to know why the introduction is off limits to editors. The introduction is not neutral and in my educated opinion contains misleading information. I can't edit it, however, because there isn't an option to do that. Also can anyone from Wikipedia explain why WHINSEC should not be allowed to write major portions of this article? If what they write can be proven wrong then of course it should be deleted. What I have a problem with is false and misleading accusations are aimed at the school and written into the article as if they were fact. But on the other hand represenatives from the school arn't allowed to put information about the school and its activities because its not verifiable? So accusations verifiable or not are OK but telling the story about the school is not. How is that fair let alone "neutral". I'm doing this now because I'm planning on posting information about the school and will be very vigilant as to who deletes any of it and challenging it to the editorial board. ChaplainSvendsen (talk) 19:13, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Whatever.... I didn't enter the fray and make any edits but this is clearly a debatable subject and should be identified as such. Continuing human rights violations in countries such as Honduras and Columbia are being attributed to graduates of the "school of assassins", which underwent merely a change in name at the request of the Pentagon, for PR reasons. SOA Watch is surely not the only group calling for the school's closure. Catholic missionaries returning from the relevant nations can be found protesting in Fort Benning. PBS and RT have done tv segments on its existence. Here is an attempt at an even-handed approach to the controversy and yearly debate over Congressional funding. Most recently, Ecuador withdrew from their agreement with US to allow a US military base in Ecuador in exchange for training of their soldiers. Correa said that the US could have a base when Ecuador could maintain their own base in the U.S. There is a growing anti-US-imperialism sentiment across the globe and resentment over our reserve currency status.
Chaplain, do you also believe there was no waterboarding used at Gitmo and we aren't assassinating US citizens with our drones? You can teach a course on human rights however when you train men to be people killing machines and send them home to work for narcissistic and power-hungry leaders of conflict and poverty ridden nations, while unable to refrain from human rights yourself (refusal to sign Inter-American pact, Bradley Manning, NDAA, Patriot Act, treatment of protesters are more examples), of course abuses will be seen. While your loyalty and patriotism may be lauded in other circumstances, they have resulted in not only a biased, but a seriously incomplete and whitewashed picture of this training facility. Lulu de St. Etienne (talk) 18:03, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
First of all have you ever looked at the school's curriculum. I did and I didn't see one class on "train men to be people killing machines" included. The classwork offered at WHINSEC is roughly equivalent to the non commissioned officer schools and Officer training schools of our armed forces. Its much of the same training that US soldiers receive only in Spanish. And lets look at just one of your accusations that of the "treatment of protesters". Do you know what the school does with protesters? They invite them to get on a bus and come into the school and let them ask questions of a board comprised of students and teachers of the school. Perhaps that is why today the number of protesters at the school has been so greatly reduced because they see for themselves what is being taught. Chaplain Svendsen (67.173.129.228 (talk) 22:44, 16 November 2012 (UTC))
The following was added to that section. There were also a few minor changes in phrasing.
With the establishment of WHINSEC a new and different school was created which in the years since its creation has created a number of programs in response to the criticisms aimed at the former School Of The Americas. The most obvious of which is their mandatory human rights training which is mandatory for all students. One new policy was a vetting system who's goal was to prevent anyone already accused of human rights abuses from gaining a seat at the school. Another specific attempt to prevent criticism was the complete omission from the classes of the teaching of any type of interrogation techniques and a careful review of all teaching and reference materials.
This material was included as relevant facts concerning the reasons for SOA being closed and the attempt by the military to establish a new and different school. If there is any complaint about references I would like to know exactly what would be a valid reference. I have this information because I spent eight years investigating the school and all of it was presented during the Board Of Visitor meetings over the years. My references include past board members as well as the public relations section of the school. If this is a problem then I would like to see references concering accusations against former graduates that can show a cause and effect between what classes they attended at the school and the accusations of human rights abuse. Additionally quite often all that has to happen is the announcement that an investigation is being started, regardless of whether it had anything to do with human rights abuses or not, and immediately its presented as proof within this article. If this material is deleted because of complaints of verifiability then I will most certianly go in and delete those other references for the very same reason. ChaplainSvendsen (talk) 16:33, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
You consider SOA to be too biased to be used as a reliable source then cite former board members and the PR division of the school as your primary sources? Surely ye jest. It appears as if you have some sort of ties to the school that prevent impartiality. Lulu de St. Etienne (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
The following was deleted from the article: "U.S. Army Maj. Joe Blair, a former director of instruction at the school, said, "there are no substantive changes besides the name. [...] They teach the identical courses that I taught, and changed the course names and use the same manuals."
The reason for this deletion is that even though it is an accurate statemnt and even though there is reference documentation the posting is disingenuous and misleading and fails the requirement of being neutral. It leaves one with the assumption that nothing was added to the course work. My suggestion is that if this is to be included it needed to be in another section other than human rights violation. Just how is setting up a supply cage or teaching proper preventative maintenance of a vehicle relevant to the subject of human rights violations? The statement in and of itself is correct, but over all misleading. let's take Vehicle Preventative Maintenanc for instance. It's taught in English all over the US military. Its translated into Spanish and is taught at WHINSEC in exactly the same way it was taught in SOA. And? What's the point? The assumption this posting tends to lead people to is that SOA is the same school teaching the same things in the same way without any changes. And that is blatantly false. So if someone what's to restate is in an accurate and neutral way and post it somewhere other than the Human Rigts Violation section I have not objection of having it returned to the article. ChaplainSvendsen (talk) 14:30, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Team, As a first time reader of this particular page, I have spent several days reading through the old instructions to become familiar with the history of this page's evolutions. Reading through the comments, I see a wealth of information about WHINSEC and about USARSA-some clearly verifiable (government documents, legislation etc) other information appears to lack credible sources. It is my intent to contribute my expertise to Wikipedia, including this page but before I do, I would like to get some answers to a few items that stand out immediately to me based on my own research. I need to get a sense of the purpose of this page from Wikipedia's view and also the view from those who have contributed and continue to contribute.
My first intention is to submit a Lead Section paragraph to replace the current one
"The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC or WHINSEC), formerly the United States Army School of the Americas (USARSA or SOA; Spanish: Escuela de las Américas) is a United States Department of Defense educational and training facility at Fort Benning near Columbus, Georgia in the United States. Established by the US government for teaching law enforcement and military techniques to US allies in the rest of the Americas, it has been criticized for training Latin American dictators and their militaries in various techniques to quell dissidence in their countries."
I hope that I am correct in identifying this as the lead section. Regardless if that is its title, I believe that, based on Wikipedia's policy-present a "neutral point of view" and "verifiable" this paragraph does not represent a neutral point of view and is missing the verifiable information about WHINSEC (taken from 10 USC 2166) which defines the Purpose of the institute. I think this is what a reader would expect. Specifically, my intended changes would address the following points:
Why is there a redirect from an old SOA website to WHINSEC? IAW 10 USC 2166 clearly shows that Congress closed that Army school over a decade ago " (b) REPEAL OF AUTHORITY FOR UNITED STATES ARMY SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS.-Section 4415 of title 10, United States Code, is repealed." 10 USC 2166 also authorizes the SECDEF to establish a DOD training institute for Western Hemisphere nations (says he "may") "(a) ESTABLISHMENT AND ADMINISTRATION.-(l) The Secretary of Defense may operate an education and training facility for the purpose set forth in subsection (b). The facility shall be known as the 'Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation'. A reader does not have to analyze this legislation here to understand that it was Congress' intent to close USARSA and establish a new DOD training institute to provide the SECDEF the ability to organize a security cooperation training institute as well as to address the concerns of opponents to USARSA, both civilian, governmental and international. If someone desires to read about USARSA, why would they be directed to a page dedicated to WHINSEC? In my opinion, the redirect implies that the WHINSEC page is the new USARSA page but USARSA no longer exists, as verified by the reference I just shared. Solution: Eliminate the redirect because it confuses readers; start a USARSA page so that readers can find USARSA research all in one place; create a section called "Controversy" on the WHINSEC page where information can be input that discusses other views, opinions etc about WHINSEC. Being objective-a review of the current WHINSEC page contains only a paragraph or two of facts about WHINSEC itself. The remainder of the entries are centered on the controversy surrounding USARSA. It is not the lead section that fails to properly describe what is the content on the page, it is the content on the page which does not match its title and provides little information about WHINSEC.
2) Why is the word " formerly" used in the Lead Section: "The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC or WHINSEC), formerly the United States Army School of the Americas" The verifiable evidence (US Legislation) which I shared above clearly shows that these are two different institutes. If there is credible evidence that it was Congressional intent to incorporate only a name change for USARSA, then that reference should be cited here, otherwise remove the reference to USARSA.
56CommonSense (talk) 21:43, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC), is a United States Department of Defense Institute located at Fort Benning near Columbus, Georgia in the United States. Authorized by US Congress through 10 USC 2166 in 2001,[1] WHINSEC "Provides professional education and training to eligible personnel of nations of the Western Hemisphere within the context of the democratic principles set forth in the Charter of the Organization of American States (such charter being a treaty to which the United States is a party), while fostering mutual knowledge, transparency, confidence, and cooperation among the participating nations and promoting democratic values, respect for human rights, and knowledge and understanding of United States customs and traditions. [2]Throughout the decade since its establishment, WHINSEC has provided training for more than 13,000 US and International students. Its educational format incorporates guest lecturers and subject matter experts from sectors of US and International government, non-government, human rights, law enforcement, academic institutions and interagency departments[3] to share best practices in pursuit of improved security cooperation between all nations of the Western Hemisphere.(WHINSEC Public Website). Additional information is included below concerning WHINSEC's history, curriculum and opponents of US training programs open to Latin American nations. The Lead Section has been updated as posted above in order to provide more clarity on what this page is about; include information that is verifiable and referenced; and ensure a neutral point of view. 56CommonSense (talk) 18:28, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
In the interest of accuracy and ensuring that searchers find the information that they are looking for, I have taken out/modified the search categories as shown below for the reasons annotated:
Category:Terrorism in the United States-Removed-This page does not have information about any terrorist acts and/or terrorism in the United states unless your opinion/view is that this institute conducts/condones terrorism. Information found on this page should be relevant and verifiable, not subject to opinions.
Category:Human rights abusesRemoved-removal is debatable if we create a neutral section on this page entitled "Opponents of WHINSEC" (example) and the section discusses who the opponents are and why they are opposed to WHINSEC the category may be relevant. I offer this as, in reading what is currently on this page, it looks as though the topic of "human rights abuses" is used quite often and I would have to assume that those who posted that information may repost under the new section.
The debate over this topic that appears throughout this talk section has inspired me to do some reading and make a conclusion about it in the spirit of a new point of view which may allow contributors to come to some agreement on what is relevant to be posted on a page entitled WHINSEC. In analyzing this, I have tried to be as objective and neutral as possible and stick to verifiable facts and information.
The connection between human rights abuses appears to be from students who completed training at USARSA and later committed an act(s) of human rights abuse in their native countries. It also appears that the connection made by those who posted is best described using the legal term "proximate cause." Proximate cause is defined as "a happening which results in an event, particularly injury due to negligence or an intentional wrongful act." In the case of the human rights abuses noted by contributors on this page, it appears from the postings that, in their view, the proximate cause of the human rights abuses was attendance at USARA. I say "in their view" as I do not see any documentation that indisputably verifies that attendance to training courses at USARSA is the proximate cause of criminal acts of trainees.
Verbalizing or writing proximate cause statements that an accuser knows are not true can be considered slander or libel (the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation; a false and defamatory oral statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt).
Fortunately our Supreme Court has recognized that there is a constitutional aspect to slander or libel which is freedom of speech. The Supreme Court has taken the opinion that statements made about a public person or a matter of public concern are not considered slander or libel if the person making the statement does not know whether or not their statement is true (they are protected under the 1st amendment). Without their ruling, freedom of speech in American might be significanly hindered, no to mention freedom of the press. This Supreme Court standard is referred to as “actual malice."
Intervening causes come into play when trying to prove proximate cause. An intervening cause is defined as "A separate act or omission that breaks the direct connection between the defendant's actions and an injury or loss to another person, and may relieve the defendant of liability for the injury or loss." In this case the defendant's action would be his/her attendance to USARSA. It appears as though most of the violations occurred after attending training courses at USARSA. Considering what intervening causes are possible in this scenario, I have come up with a list including: Coercion by peers, or superiors; obligation to follow orders of superiors; threat of physical harm; provocation; misinformation; traumatic stress syndrom; mental illness; a skewed moral framework or set of values; personal experiences growing up etc. When developing this list, I tried to think about "what causes people to harm or kill others." I am certain there are many more possibilities. My conclusion would be that any of these intervening causes as well as others i am not aware of could have caused these people to commit these acts. My other conclusion is that we will likely never know exactly why they did it. In other words "would these people have committed these acts of violence if they had not attended training at USARSA." Considering the testimony presented on this page about the murders in El Salvador for example, it appears to me that it is very likely that these atrocities would have happened anyway, as the testimony and truth commission findings seem to show that these soldiers were ordered to do so. The only connection to USARSA that appears there is there attendance to training course(s).
So, what is my point? Without some verifiable proof of proximate cause in the human rights violations posted on this page, one would have to make an assumption about the proximate cause of the violations. The assumption could not be neutral but would find USARSA responsible or not responsible. Therefore, we, as contributors, should be critical of posting information that is not verifiable and requires a non-neutral assumption to be made. This is not in accordance with Wikipedia policies or the spirit of presenting neutral information for readers.
Category:Salvadoran Civil WarRemoved, occured before the establishment of WHINSEC; not connected Category:Operation Condor Removed, occured before the establishment of WHINSEC; not connected ca:Escola de les Amèriques fr:École militaire des Amériques Removed, this page is about WHINSEC not another institution pt:Escola das Américas Removed, this page is about WHINSEC not another institution Human rights in latin america Category:Human rights training in the Western HemisphereModified-formerly "human rights violations". New category is more consistent and representative of WHINSEC 56CommonSense (talk) 18:10, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Lots of long winded, "if you didn't see it happen it didn't" yap in these various sections to base the gutting of an article. As long as School of America's redirects to this page, this is where SOA info needs to go. If you want to WRITE ANOTHER PAGE FOR SOA, that's fine, however you violated Wikipedia guidelines by removing information directly linked under the name, excusing it as "not relevant". Really? Not relevant but it directs to this page?
If you don't like the two being together, you can write a separate page for SOA. Until then, You are Wrong To Remove SOA information from this page, as THIS PAGE IS THE LINK FOR SOA, and DEFACING INFORMATION IS ALSO AGAINST WIKIPEDIA.99.14.111.122 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:35, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
I think its appropriate that we have a section "background" where we can put additional information about WHINSEC that is not part of the lead section but does not fit into the History section. I will place the text here initially. 56CommonSense (talk) 21:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
"In 1946, in the early days of the Cold War, the Latin American Training Center – U.S. Ground Forces[5] was established in the Atlantic sector of the Panama Canal Zone, in the US army base of Fort Amador.[6] During 1949 it was expanded and became the U.S. Army Caribbean Training Center, seated into a former hospital building on the grounds of Fort Gulick[7] (now housing the Melia Hotel).[8] It was once again expanded and renamed the U.S. Army School of the Americas in 1963. It relocated to Fort Benning in 1984, following the signing of the Panama Canal Treaty.[9] More than 61,000 military personnel attended these United States Army schools.[5] According to WHINSEC's web page, "the School of the Americas taught military education courses as they were taught in U.S. Armed Forces institutions—the School translated the courses, lessons plans and all, into Spanish. Beginning in 1963, and evolving as the region changed, SOA taught, at various times, professional military education and training courses to officers and non-commissioned officers in the areas of: professional leadership (Command and General Staff course, Military Police courses, Infantry Officers Basic course, Artillery Officers course and a Cadet Orientation course); infantry weapons (Mortar Officer course); technical support (Engineer Basic and Officer courses, Radio Operators course, Small Caliber Repair course, Wheeled Vehicle Maintenance course and Medical Assistance courses); counter-insurgency (Internal Defense and Development course, Military Intelligence course, Military Police course), introduced during 1963; and specialized leadership and skills (Ranger course, Air Mobile course, Jungle Operations course, Patrolling course, Parachute Rigging course, Basic Airborne course, Pathfinder and Jumpmaster courses)."[5"
Since this section is on the WHINSEC page, we should provide information on the history of WHINSEC. The institute has been around for a decade, there has to be some good information about it during that time. The information above doesn't talk about WHINSEC at all and I find myself increasingly frustrated with the lack of WHINSEC information on this page. I am working on updating the history section to tell the readers something about WHINSEC's history, not USARSA history, which apparently ended in 2000.56CommonSense (talk) 22:18, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
As stated above, I am editing the History section to eliminate confusion for readers. Information here should focus on WHINSEC's history, not USARSA history. USARSA history information is appropriate for its own page but does not fit here. I will try to synthesize the opponent point of view here as it relates to WHINSEC and leave opponents to USARSA to find a more appropriate page to post this information. 56CommonSense (talk) 16:10, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Is the consensus that a separate article is needed to describe the School of the Americas from 1946 to 2000? Is it ok for that single article to cover the evolution of SoA over those years as per the first paragraph in this History discussion or does each variation deserve its own article? donbock 12.48.228.67 (talk) 21:46, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
All this is is great info on WHISEC, but I want info on The SOA, whose link comes here. Can I get that information, please?~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.14.96.168 (talk) 19:51, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Was updated to 2012 to add recent announcement by Correa of Ecuador that he would be pulling all troops from WHINSEC citing reasons of human rights violations. The link used came from SOA Watch, sorry Reverend, but their reporting was the most complete I found on the topic. My statement was confirmed by actual statement by Correa which SOA Watch provided, albeit in Spanish. (Not fluent but knowledge of French is enough to get the gist.) Whether the school taught violations or not, it's indisputable Correa is making the correlation, which is what I wrote. Lulu de St. Etienne (talk) 18:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
It seems to have escaped notice that the history of WHISC as School of the Americas has been whitewashed out of this article: the lead doesn't even mention the old name! This despite the fact that it is widely agreed that it was little more than a cosmetic change, and that School of the Americas redirects here. This needs to be fixed. Rd232 talk 15:55, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
My effort to make an addition to Further Readings failed. This Wikipedia topic is incomplete without a link to the following poem: "Memorial for Antonio Maria Barrera" - which is posted upon the Internet at the following url: "http://jacksonday.home.comcast.net/~jacksonday/barerra.htm". United Methodist Church clergyman, Rev. Jack Day, joined others in the annual School of the Americas protest march in November 1998. When he got home he began the creation of a poem. Composed in English, this writer suggested the stanzas be translated into Spanish, and the poem published in both languages. Jack credits two translators for their help. Please go read this remarkable American poem. -- signed Edward Chilton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.133.62.232 (talk) 14:46, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I've read every article posted in the past, and it seems to me that they are all generally unfounded and bias in support of closing the Institute. Not once did I see an official article, newsletter or even mentioned the folks at that place. As if this was the platform to carry on with the promotional material in the benefit of a particular cause - may I say, close the school? Well, the school is closed.
I don't deny the fact that IF you want to include history into the page, you should. But then start from where the Institution was founded BY LAW - 2001.
So, I looked into the official pages and posted what I found. If you would like to contribute with a piece that states something like: Opposition to WHINSEC - then by all means. But let’s stick to the facts and not forget intellectual verifiability
Comments as those made in the past in this page by certain individuals are considered under Wikipedia policy as libelous, and must be deleted.
Verba et FactaEDJO97
I've read every article posted in the past, and it seems to me that they are all generally unfounded and bias in support of closing the Institute. Not once did I see an official article, newsletter or even mentioned the folks at that place. As if this was the platform to carry on with the promotional material in the benefit of a particular cause - may I say, close the school? Well, the school is closed.
I don't deny the fact that IF you want to include history into the page, you should. But then start from where the Institution was founded BY LAW -
So, I looked into the official pages and posted what I found. If you would like to contribute with a piece that states something like: Opposition to WHINSEC - then by all means. But let's stick to the facts and not forget intellectual verifiability
Comments as those made in the past in this page by certain individuals are considered under Wikipedia policy libelous, and must be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EDJO97 (talk • contribs) 16:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Stumink made this edit, twice, and I reverted both times for the following reason: the current text is sourced. The edited text,
is not corroborated by the source, which describes only how the terminology used by WHINSEC-trained troops changed, not any actual shift in policy wrt. which groups where targeted, and the edited text does seem to imply such a change. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 11:41, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
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please excuse me if I'm asking a stupid question, but is there a source proving that Saddam Hussein was at the school? During my studies I invested some time in the life of Saddam Hussein and this seems rather unlikely to me. He was a long time guerilla warrior against al-Kazim before the second coup d'Etat of the Baath Party brought him into gouvernement office. I think he was never actually in the military and Iraq wasn't considered an US-Ally at the time, this was rather the British influence zone.Tortososs (talk) 23:20, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
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Why is there no explanation of where this institute came from or when it began? It's vague.
Makes you want to believe the cynics who say anything negative gets removed.63.155.53.122 (talk) 13:00, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
An IP gutted the page, and I restored it, noting a cited reliable source that goes against the basis of the IP's blanking. In doing the restore, I got a warning about a deprecated source. Any idea which source is the deprecated source, so I can help find a replacement for it? —C.Fred (talk) 18:24, 20 April 2021 (UTC)