This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Physics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Physics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhysicsWikipedia:WikiProject PhysicsTemplate:WikiProject Physicsphysics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles
This article is part of the History of Science WikiProject, an attempt to improve and organize the history of science content on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. You can also help with the History of Science Collaboration of the Month.History of ScienceWikipedia:WikiProject History of ScienceTemplate:WikiProject History of Sciencehistory of science articles
This article falls under the scope of WikiProject Paranormal, which aims to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the paranormal and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, help with current tasks, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and discussions.ParanormalWikipedia:WikiProject ParanormalTemplate:WikiProject Paranormalparanormal articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Polyhedra, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of polygons, polyhedra, and other polytopes on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolyhedraWikipedia:WikiProject PolyhedraTemplate:WikiProject PolyhedraPolyhedra articles
I've reworked (and added quotations directly from the Timaeus) the "World Soul" section of this page, as whoever wrote the previous entry had clearly not read Plato's text very carefuly (if at all).
128.205.73.127 (talk) 18:12, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In Wikipedia, we use sentence case for headings. Is "The Creation of the World Soul" an actual chapter in Timaeus? If not, this and similar headings need to go to sentence case. Thanks! 17:45, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
The section below in quotation marks is not relevent to the article. The Christian Doctrine of Creatio Ex Nihilo was not developed until the councils expounded it. The section has the appearance of a Christian polemic and I've therefore removed it.
"For Plato, the demiurge lacked the supernatural ability to create ex nihilo or out of nothing. Not being omnipotent the demiurge was able to only organize to a limited extent the "ananke" (αναγκη) or necessity."
I cancelled the remark about some Christian sects differring with creation ex nihilo because they did not exist at
Plato's time and therefore are not relevant to the article. While the reference to the Bible position is important also because the "Timaeus" has been used to interpret the Genesis by medioeval Christian philosophers who indeed refused the original idea of eternal matter and introduced the creation ex nihilo. Benio7622:01, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To the person who wrote about the interpretation of the creation in Genesis as an "organisation" and not a "creation ex nihilo". I reverted your edit because:
1/ it is not sourced. You propose an interpretation of the Genesis which is different from the current one and is based on the translation of a world from ancient Hebrew: so, you have to quote first of all a dictionary for the translation and then a critical source supporting and explaining the interpretation. Otherwise, your contribution is original research and does not follow WP guidelines (see WP:NOR);
2/ as I already wrote, the reference to this interpretation will be pertinent if connected to Plato's times: was this interpretation already existing when the Timaeus was written? Are there relations between Hebrews and Christians supporting this interpretation and the Timaeus? I explained why my reference to the standard interpretation is relevant to the history of the Timaeus, please do the same. Otherwise, I think that Genesis or other articles connected to creation are more appropriate articles for your contributions.
In general, please make propositions in the talk page and discuss them with the other editors before editing. If you source your contribution and explain the pertinence, I have no problem with accepting it. Thanks. Benio7616:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So why does the article say "the Bible account"? Why not briefly mention these medieval theologians? Dan 05:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I added that the article is speaking of the traditional interpetation. The medieval theologians are already mentioned at the end of the article. Benio7614:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot13:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just checked all of the external links and nowhere is the word "Demiurge", ever used by Plato.MPA 00:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MPA (talk • contribs)
"Demiurge" is in fact used in the Timaeus, as well as in some other dialogues. You can find references under definition of the word in LSJ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.210.47.193 (talk) 04:02, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am sure that this is a common problem for articles written about the writings of Plato, but this article says things like "Plato assumes" and "Plato posits" as if it is clear that the author actually thinks what the characters think. Plato never made overt claims in his own name, at least not in the Socratic dialogues. Every such instance should be replaced with "Timaeus describes" (as is accurately used in most of the article. Rugbyhelp (talk) 17:38, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know it's years late to the discussion, but I think this could help for future instances. In the case of many of the doctrines developed in this dialogue, as it happens with the proposition of a rational creator (the demiurge), the elemental constitution of the universe (earth, wind, fire and water as the basic manifestation of the physical realm, which shouldn't be confused with being its principle or cause, as it happens in atomism), or it's geometrical structure (e.g. the existence and requirement of "space"), we can find parallels of said doctrines in other texts. For example, the notion of a creator is atheme present in dialogues such as The Statesman, Philebus and The Sophist in a similar manner as its appearance in Timaeus. 179.60.95.33 (talk) 01:39, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The last comment about the Golden mean is wrong: the golden mean is never mentioned at all, even indirectly. Also Plato speaks of 'God' (in the singular) not 'the demiurge', There is no discussion in the article of the lengthy discursus on physiology, disease and sensation, which is by far the longest discussion in the Dialogue. Also there is no mention in this article of the Creator God's creation of the other gods, nor of the role of necessity in the creation. Overall, I'd say that the article needs a complete rewrite. Eluard (talk) 02:38, 2 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He speaks of both "the god", "the gods", and "the demiurge". There is no "God" for the ancient Greeks as far as I know. More importantly as someone else noted, Plato never speaks in this nor in any other dialogue. And I think you will have a hard time showing Timaeus the astronomer and politician of all people to be a mouthpiece for Plato. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.210.47.193 (talk) 04:11, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't understand it to mean the golden ratio either. It appears as though it is just describing convergence as the average is applied repeatedly between two things (fire and earth). metric (talk) 14:43, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Help request for Timaeus (dialog) at Wikisource[edit]
Do to personal limitations, I can't fix some problems I stumbled onto at Timaeus at Wikisource. I did point out the problems I saw at:
I have just modified one external link on Timaeus (dialogue). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check)) (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.