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Something funny's going on in chemistry in the mid 50s. Doesn't agree with Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Sluj 00:56, 11 December 2004
I agree. Can someone confirm that the chemistry in the mid 50s is correct, because I would think the Nobel Prize Site would be more corrrect. User:Jarchie 05:08, 23 April 2007
Unfortunately, none of Wikipedia's Nobel laureate lists is taking into account that not all Nobel laureates are of equal importance. Some obviously had much more impact than others. One of them even achieved superstardom and became "man of the century", while most of them remain largely unknown. Here we cannot judge who deserved it etc. But we ought to report how the Nobel committee expresses its own view of the value of individual contributions by awarding fractional prizes. The official Nobel web site explicitly says for each laureate X how much of a Nobel Prize X really got, for example, "1/4 of the prize" or "1/2 of the prize" or "1/3 of the prize" etc. If X got less than 1.0 Nobel Prizes X is still a Nobel laureate, of course, but it's also clear that X could have done better. Everybody in the field, and especially the laureates themselves, are fully aware of the significance of these fractional prizes. Suppose the physics prize goes to 3 researchers, one of them gets 1/2, the others 1/4 each - it's absolutely clear whose contribution was larger in the eyes of the committee.
I think all Wikipedia Nobel Prize lists must be augmented by this crucial information! This will also put in perspective the recent inflation of Nobel laureates in the sciences, which is easy to explain: most of the recent laureates had to share the prize while most of the early laureates got a full prize. The sum of the Nobel Prizes per year is constant; you may divide it among many laureates, but then the laureates necessarily become less outstanding on average. Science History14:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the 1/3, 1/4, etc, bits should be added. I disagree that anything should be said about what this implies. Just record the bare facts and avoid speculation about relative worth - it doesn't work when covering more than a century of science anyway. Carcharoth13:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Nobel Foundation doesn't take a position on whether the fractions have any meaning. If "[e]verybody in the field [... is] fully aware", that's doesn't have any impact on Wikipedia. Find some reliable sources for that claim, and then we can start talking about doing more that merely noting the fractions. RossPatterson (talk) 21:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I dont know if anyone here knows Dutch. But but there is a Laurierkrans Which is given to the olympic games (dont know if games is the right word) winners. Anyone know if Laureates is connected with Laurier or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.80.54.3 (talk) 11:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes: I do, because I live in Flanders, so that's even my own mother tongue, and you are indeed correct, moreover, we also say "gelauwerden" or laureaten for the winners and lauwerkrans (laurier is a tree), derived from the verb lauweren plus its adjective lauwering (in Latin: laudare and laudatio resp.), meaning to honor and honoring resp. Extremely sexy11:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Should the nobel peace laureates have a nobel medal icon under their name and above their picture while other laureates do not, yet if we look at templates it explicitly states that icons should not placed in this position???
Someone111111 (talk) 07:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, it might be better to give it a page of it's own to make clear that distinction. Having the Nobel Prise and the Banks prize in thesame chart, as is done in this article, is confusing.Wikinegern (talk) 08:45, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It would be more accurate to entitle the column in the table of "List of Laureates" as Economic Sciences rather than simply Economics.RobHickling (talk) 17:41, 12 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It would be nifty to add dates of death, or maybe just a "deceased" mark next to appropriate names. I'll start compiling a list, but don't hesitate to jump in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.137.148.197 (talk) 21:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to try for a Nobel laureates FT with this as the main page and I would like to reformat the page. If anyone objects or has any suggestions, this is your chance.
This is my proposed format. It would stick just to names and years and ignore details like nationality and reasoning (for those, one could just go to the appropriate list). However, things such as refusing the prize will be noted. For double winners, I am thinking of using a coloured column so that they will stick out more. Anyway, all opinions are welcome. -- Scorpion042219:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A similar list with the work for which the award was given does seem to be missing from wikipedia. It would be an important page to be added and linked from this page. Atif.hussain (talk) 21:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This page is a somewhat comprehensive list of achievers in various fields. Instead of sticking to the literary meaning, "Nobel laureate", which would disqualify even economics, we should try to cover all other imp. subject awards here. This could be named "List_of_Apex_Laureates" or some other suitable name, covering the 5 Nobel prizes, Federal bank's Economics award, Abel award in Maths, etc., and List_of_Nobel_laureates redirected to this page. This would make it a comprehensive list of imp. award winners, instead of sticking to Nobel awards. Atif.hussain (talk) 21:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Why is a photo of the US president used for this page? The whole picture seems very US-centric and thus inappropriate for an international prize in an international encyclopedia. There ought to be more appropriate photos available? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.233.193.12 (talk) 17:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree 100%, but there really aren't any more free photos that show recipients in multiple categories. Would you prefer an image that shows Dick Cheney instead? -- Scorpion042217:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your suggestion is much better. this may be POV, but having Bush as the first recognizable face on this article, of all articles, is just too weird for me to handle. anyway, there is at least one well known laureate, luis alvarez, in the 68 photo.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:37, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any reference/list the reports Laureates by the institution they were affiliated with at the time? (or primarily affiliated with throughout their career?). Note sure if this is a meaningful question, but I was curious :-) Natebailey (talk) 02:34, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, my bad. I misread your post. Was "institutions" applied in the broadest sense, or simply to universities? If it is the former, then no such list probably exists, and if the latter, then there you go. — sephiroth bcr(converse)10:07, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... Incorrectly. I'd go as far as to say you grossly misrepresented the cited source. It's also rather useless in the first place for the simple fact that the figures depend on the arbitrary decision to be more or less specific when it comes to subdivisions. It just comes off as an inappropriate scoreboard. The table at that article is sortable anyway. TompaDompa (talk) 05:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for discussing the matter at a talk page (instead of through edit summaries, see WP:SUMMARYNO). The content removal should be considered in light of content policies WP:CONPOL. You've indicated a failed verification, which has been corrected, thank you. As for the claimed arbitrariness, the source cited (nobelprize.org) is the most authoritative. Let's give an opportunity for others to comment? Please beware of the WP:3RR. Thanks, @TompaDompa. fgnievinski (talk) 05:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You made a WP:BOLD edit and were reverted. You then reinstated it without discussing it first per WP:BRD. You didn't even properly correct the massive misrepresentation of the cited source when you reinstated itfor the second time, but falsely claimed to have done so. What on Earth are you doing?For that matter, why would you want a scoreboard in the first place? Are you aware of the extremely lengthy discussion that led to List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation existing in the state you found it in? I'm guessing the answer is no since you posted to this talk page rather than Talk:List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation. It used to be a massive WP:OR mess of a scoreboard. Moving away from what amounted to a prestige-measuring contest between universities is an important reason the current format was chosen. TompaDompa (talk) 05:58, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my, what a hornet's nest. Can you be more explicit what specifically is missing or misrepresented? The very same authoritative publication currently cited to source the individual affiliations also does the job of counting the number of occurrences and giving the subtotals per university. There is not even WP:CALC or WP:WEIGHT involved, it's just an excerpt of the top ones sorted in descending order. All the caveats stated in the lead still apply (re: affiliations are those at the time of the Nobel Prize announcement). You may not like scoreboards but it's popular nonetheless. fgnievinski (talk) 02:35, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As was the case with the original list you added, the updated list you added did not list the complete set of institutions with at least the same "score" as the bottom entry. Anyway, that list has since been removed by Onetwothreeip. Clearly, consensus for inclusion has not been established. TompaDompa (talk) 18:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You mean the institutions with score equal to 6? There were three such institutions. I've double checked now and the authoritative source doesn't give any additional institutions with score 6. Which one are you missing? Anyways, I've trimmed down the list to the institutions with at least score 10. The allegation "contrasts in counting methods with the rest of the article" is simply not true. I'm still not getting what's your argument -- remember, WP:NOTCENSORED. fgnievinski (talk) 22:00, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
With "score" at least equal to 6 (now 10). And it's still not resolved. This is just sloppy on your part.My objection is that it does not improve the article. Again, the format that has been used for the last few years, the one that does not take a scoreboard approach, was chosen in part because the editors who worked on cleaning the list up from the absolute WP:OR nightmare that it used to be deemed it desirable not to treat it like a prestige-measuring contest between universities. WP:NOTCENSORED does not enter into it. There exists no consensus that this addition improves the article, and the WP:ONUS to get such a consensus is on you. You have repeatedly re-added material that other editors have removed, as if your version should be the preferred one by default.Finally, I suggest that we move this discussion to the relevant talk page, i.e. Talk:List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation. That's where it belongs. TompaDompa (talk) 22:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've done some automated text parsing and now I believe the excerpt is complete, thank you. I've archived the raw ranking.
I've posted a notice at the talk about indicating this ongoing discussion; I'm not comfortable moving it because it was started here by someone else a few years ago.
You can't just keep repeating your opinion that "it does not improve the article", because opinions clearly differ. An argument should be made about content policy violations, which I've seen none so far.
It's not up to editors to judge whether "prestige-measuring contest between universities" is something desirable or undesirable. Wikipedia has to stick to the facts, provided they can be reliably sourced and with due weight -- which is the case for the ranking, as per original source cited.
One policy worth discussing is about basic arithmetic not being original research (WP:CALC): I've aggregated the counts of closely affiliated schools and laboratories to the parent university. Again, that's just a sum, hence not WP:OR. For the largest ones it was easy, but it'd grow increasingly more difficult for the smaller cases. fgnievinski (talk) 03:30, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You could have just closed this discussion using ((atop))/((abot)) and left a link to Talk:List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation, noting that the discussion will continue there from here. This talk page section had had no comments whatsoever for almost 15 years when you commented here.
There is quite a bit wrong with what you just wrote. To wit:
"This does not improve the article" is a policy-recognized reason not to include content. See WP:ONUS: While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.
We are allowed to make subjective assessments about how something influences the overall article quality. I'm sure you understand this in the context of e.g. including or excluding certain image files.
Likewise, we are allowed to make subjective assessments about the best way to present information. The information in the scoreboard is also in fact present in the table, though it is structured and presented in a different way. I'm sure you understand this in the context of e.g. phrasing the same information in different ways in prose.
WP:CALC says Routine calculations do not count as original research, provided there is consensus among editors that the results of the calculations are correct, and a meaningful reflection of the sources. I dispute that this is the case here—you made the editorial decision to include different subdivisions in the same tally even though the source decided against doing so. You even changed the order by doing this. You are not (supposed to be) the arbiter of which affiliations are close enough to warrant folding into the same number and which are not.
There's also a case to be made that listing the institutions in descending order of number of affiliations violates WP:DUE as this emphasizes the numerical values in a way the source, which lists them alphabetically, does not. TompaDompa (talk) 19:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If the recipients of the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economics are included in this article, we will have to include recipients of other unrelated (non-Nobel) prizes, like the "Alternative Nobel Prize" (the Right Livelihood Award). GVU (talk) 21:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus. The only previous discussion was a comment that the Riksbank Prize (obviously!) doesn't belong here, because it's a different prize. If there is any consensus, it's to remove the Riksbank prize. GVU (talk) 21:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We're only including the prizes recognized by the Nobel Foundation. Winners of other prizes are not officially considered "Nobel laureates" and will not be included here. — sephiroth bcr(converse)03:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, we're only including prizes etablished by the will of Alfred Nobel. Other prizes are not officially considered "Nobel laureates" and will not be included here. For this exact reason, Riksbank laureates belong in a different article, as it is a different prize that has nothing to do with Nobel and his prizes. The recipients of the Riksbank Prize are not Nobel laureates, but Riksbank laureates. GVU (talk) 06:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, the Riksbank Prize is consistently not referred to as a "Nobel prize" or the laureates as "Nobel" laureates by the Nobel Foundation (compare all the other prizes the foundation is managing, which are all referred to as Nobel prizes, for instance "All Nobel Laureates in Physics", "All Nobel Laureates in Chemistry" and so forth, but only "All Laureates in Economics". The page also clearly states that the name of the prize is "The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel". Not the "Nobel Prize in Economics". Does this make it obvious enough that your position is wrong or do you need more convincing? GVU (talk) 17:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless, the prize is recognized by the Nobel Foundation (unlike the one you mentioned above), and every media and piece of news in existence refers to them as "Nobel laureates", regardless of whatever is on the Nobel Foundation page; you're attempting to be ridiculously strict and shortsighted here. Anyhow, you have no consensus whatsoever, any changes you attempt will be reverted, and you're harping for nothing here. — sephiroth bcr(converse)20:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
<-- It's pretty obvious that here we're dealing with a "true believer" which this topic unfortunately tends to attract. The fact that economics laureates are listed along with other laureates by the Nobel foundation is not enough - Wikipedia should do it differently! Differently than the Nobel foundation. This dispute pops up with a clockwork like regularity and in fact what we have already is a compromise. Again, GVU needs to come up with something entirely new and convincing or else it's a referral to the archives.radek (talk) 19:24, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The argument against is that the lists for the individual prizes include the price rationale, and not just the name of the laureates. Tomas e (talk) 14:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Change to heading of Template for Laureates of the Nobel Peace Prize
it was brought up a year ago that the lede photo, while showing many laureates, also shows a us president, which is somewhat us centric. a 68 photo from wikimedia commons was suggested. i propose we change it, as its not us centric, has one well known laureate, alvarez, and is a better photo (close up of faces). unless objected to, im gonna do it soon.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think the table in this article is not organized very well. Organizing the columns by Prize Category doesn't really make sense. I think a table like the one below would allow for a lot more information to be presented, with a much more useful sorting capability. The more information we can present on this page, the easier it is for users to sort by that information and find what they need.
Obviously, this would be a lot of work too. But it would be worth it. Assuming there is consensus to make this change, it would be much more practical if several people took a chunk of the table and converted it over. At the least, we'd have to look up the country for each person, as well as their university affiliation (can be found here). I'll volunteer to take a large chunk... anyone else up for it? SnottyWongtalk21:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I like the looks of it, but if you're wanting to merge List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation back in, then you'd have to somehow include "Graduate", "Attendee or Researcher", "Academic staff before or at the time of award", and "Academic staff after award" categories into the "Affiliation" column. I personally have no preference, just pointing out that there's additional information in the other table. There's some similar information in the "Relation" column at List of Nobel laureates affiliated with Princeton University, so maybe that's the way to go. VernoWhitney (talk) 21:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you're saying. I'm sure we could figure out a slick way to incorporate that information, perhaps using footnotes to designate the type of affiliations. I'm also not insistent on completely merging this article with List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation as it may only be practical to list the laureates' primary affiliations in this table. I think it's more important to attempt to get as much information as possible into one sortable table rather than spreading it around a bunch of different articles. SnottyWongtalk22:09, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think we cd easily use 4 different symbols after the university name to designate the relationship. Good idea though. Sandman888 (talk) 21:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a valid problem though. Some of these people might affiliations with 6 or 7 different universities. We could stuff them all into this table, but it might start to look nasty. We might just want to come up with a "primary affiliation" criteria so that we can list a single university for each person, and let List of Nobel laureates by university affiliation do the rest. Example criteria possibilities: University where the person did the research associated with their award, University where the person was primarily employed when they received their award, etc. SnottyWongtalk21:56, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You're forgetting that there are currently lists for all six Nobel prizes. This table is meant to provide a quick listing of winners, as well as a list of winners per year, which is something wikipedia lacks. -- Scorpion042201:17, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I figured that having all of the information in one sortable table would be the most efficient way to go, assuming it is practical. If there is no consensus for it, then I would just as well not go through the considerable effort required, and I'm certainly not going to fight for it. Especially considering this is a featured list, if the opinion isn't near unanimous, then I'm ok with just dropping the idea. SnottyWongtalk04:16, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd oppose the idea in this list. There must be some 600 names in this list. And I think that to have all the extra information in one list would not be managable. Is affiliation really that important. I'm sure it is important for the institution (i.e. bragging rights) but how relevent to the laureate is it in all cases. In some cases it might be where they did the work that got them rewarded but in others perhaps it is just where they graduated from. That is not to say I think the idea of incorportating more information in a sortable way is a bad idea (it's one I quite like) however I think it would need to be somewhere else (sublists?) Rambo's Revenge(talk)18:32, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To date no-one has received a nobel prize in the field of economics, because there is no such prize (many people have received prizes from the swedish central bank for economics, but that is not a nobel prize). I propose that the economics parts of the table should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.178.119.139 (talk) 19:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article states that "Six laureates have received more than one prize" but only mentions that the International Committee of the Red Cross has received the Nobel Peace Prize three times. Who are the other 5 laureates who received multiple prizes? The reference is broken. 131.251.252.33 (talk) 12:27, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since the Nobel prize is no longer awarded posthumously, perhaps notes should be added to winners that have won one, either before 1974, or under the special rule (Ralp Steinman)?
There is a line between the Literature and Peace columns, and looking at old versions, there always has been. I suspect this is a problem with your display - are you looking at this on a tablet or phone? as wide tables or images requiring scrolling sideways, can give display problems. If this is a problem on a PC, try altering your zoom level CTRL++ will increase the size, CTRL+- will reduce it and CTRL+0 (zero) will return it to 'normal' size. - Arjayay (talk) 13:39, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi, there's slight mistake in the "PRIZE" section paragraph of this article. It fails to inform that "the Nobel Prize in Literature is conferred by the Swedish Academy".
Even the link reference [3] correctly points it out on its own website but somehow in this section of the article it's missing.
I am somehow not allowed to edit the article. So i request anyone reading this to please rectify this tiny error.
Locking pages like this down to prevent helpful edits by passers by goes complete against the philosophy that built Wikipedia in the first place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.251.196 (talk • contribs)
The idea to add laurates' countries' flags was previously discussed (see #insert a flag from 2012). There appears to have been no consensus to add, and no flags appear to have been added at that time. Over the past few months, User:SalmanZ has been adding flags. Let's pause and discuss please. I'm not going to undo it all (WP:BRD hardline approach) for the moment, because it's a lot of work spread over many edits, but this is clearly controversial material. I agree with, that per MOS:FLAGCRUFT it's visual clutter in the table and the prize is based on person alone not as a representative of a country. I'm pinging User:Finnusertop from that discussion, not because they agree with me but because they are the only editor involved there who is still active on WP. DMacks (talk) 18:09, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@DMacks: Hi, thanks for informing me, unfortunately, I didn't know anything about this discussion #insert a flag it was clearly a controversial material. like many other users,I also thought inserting a national flag against each laureate in the table, rather than emphasizing their nationality, it would make it easier to trace the origin country of each laureate right away. Nevertheless, I'm open minded person and I would like to get to know more about WP: WORDPRECEDENCE that says:"the flags should not change the expected style or layout of infoboxes or lists to the detriment of words."However, as you asked I paused insertion of flags and as you know I can undo it all. but I can wait for any suggestion. Best regards. --SalmanZ (talk) 22:54, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
The recipient of the 1973 Nobel Prize in Physics, Brian David Josephson was actually Welsh. Displayed next to his name is the English flag. This is misleading, and extremely inaccurate. It promotes the outdated notion that Wales is in fact a principality of England; this is a xenophobic idea, and tremendously offensive. This should be changed. ConnorLeeHughes (talk) 12:02, 15 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@4me689: I get the impression that you're pro-image, when it comes to page content. May I recommend that this page, would be the best place for images of Nobel Prize winners. GoodDay (talk) 02:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@GoodDay: to be honest, I don't really want pictures in the Nobel Peace Prize section in the 2022 article, I hesitated to added them because it would be making it longer than it is. 4me689 (talk) 02:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Creating a new article "List of Nobel laureates by age"