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The article is biased, it doesn't mention Ukrainian victims of Ukrainian terror, Soviet and Nazi influence, situation of Ukrainians in other countries (SU, Czechoslovakia). Xx236 (talk) 08:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
moving back? Rather not back. Xx236 (talk) 09:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Obviously, Wiktor Poliszczuk is an unreliable source and things directly attributed to him ought to be kept out. See ]Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. I hope the person who added him is not yet another of the dozwens of sockpuppetrs of banned User:Loosmark. Faustian (talk) 03:54, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I dont see any informations about terroristic actions by OUN and UWO. Maybe aobut pl:Drugie wystąpienie UWO and pl:Pierwsze wystąpienie UWO, and more: pl:Zamach na Józefa Piłsudskiego we Lwowie (1921).
References
Snyder
was invoked but never defined (see the help page).Take a closer look at the following edit * 03:51, 1 September 2011 Faustian (talk | contribs) (22,118 bytes) (Removed a lot of stuff referenced to an unreliable source (Poliszczuk), kept Marek's referenced addition).
Contrary to summary, the above edit was a blank revert of everything going back (all the way) to ((Expand section|date=September 2008)). In total, 10,374 bytes of well referenced info was removed, and the number of citations reduced from 47 to 35, including the following few samples of 12 weblinks to a variety of wp:rs material including books written by reputable scholars, and accessible via Google Books.
and many others.
The above blank revert of copy was toppled with a personal attack (see: the opening line in the section above): "not yet another of the dozwens (sic) of sockpuppetrs (sic) of banned User:Loosmark" – a false allegation meant to discredit new research. Please, focus on content, OK? This Wikipedia entry is not your venue for political advocacy against any development in Ukrainian-Polish history. And, don't play with words in your summaries, because the article history is there for all to see. — FoliesTrévise (talk) 16:52, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
The work of User:FoliesTrévise. This diff: [3] - removal of sourced information plus massive addition of irrelevent information about Poles in the Soviet Union.
That was a content issue. More seriously in that edit, User:FoliesTrévise falsified what a source wrote. The source is Comments on Timothy Snyder's article, "To Resolve the Ukrainian Question once and for All: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ukrainians in Poland, 1943-1947" Journal of Cold War Studies, Volume 1, Number 2 (Spring 1999). Originally the article read: "Between 1934 and 1938, a series of violent and sometimes deadly attacks against Ukrainians were conducted in parts of Poland. requently, Polish police watched these brutal attacks and afterwards arrested the Ukrainian victims for "disturbing the peace." The footnote within the article contained more details: "In one of many such incidents, the Papal Nuncio in Warsaw reported that Polish mobs attacked Ukrainian students in their dormitory under the eyes of Polish police, a screaming Ukrainian woman was thrown into a burning Ukrainian store by Polish mobs, and a Ukrainian seminary was destroyed during which icons were desecrated and eight people were hospitalized with serious injuries and two killed. Taken from Jeffrey Burds..." The original source is available online. It reads:
User:FoliesTrévise changed the article to read: In Warsaw, on 2–3 November 1938, a militant National Radical Camp (officially delegalised after three months of existence) attacked a Ukrainian Catholic seminary as well as several institutes; set a shop on fire and hurled a woman into it. Several ONR Camp leaders had been interned in the Bereza Kartuska Detention Camp.
Nothing that he wrote was in the references he added, and indeed he used Burds' work as a reference, falsifying what Burds wrote. Burds explictly blamed this violence on followers of the Polish National Democrats. User:FoliesTrévise changed the aticle to blame it on someon else, whom the Polish government eventually arrested, creating the impression (that totally contradicts the source) that these actions were opposed by the Polish authorites.
This subtle sort of dishonesty is a serious violation of wikipedia policy.Faustian (talk) 17:07, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Another thing User:FoliesTrévise has done. Look at this diff: [4]. Here is the pasage this came from: [5] (I can't cut and paste because its from googlebooks). Hrushevsky says that Galicia was more advanced and European than other parts of Ukraine, attributing this to its existence in Galicia-Volhynia, the presence of German settlers, etc. With reference to the Polish influence specifically, Hrushevsky is unambiguously negative about Polish influence. As can be seen in the diff, User:FoliesTrévise turns Hrushevsky's work on its head, erasing what he specifically wrote about Poland and replacing it with his general statement about Galicia being more advanced, and placing this in a section about Ukraine under Poland in order to create the false impression that Hrushevsky's appraisal of Polish influence was positive when clearly it was quite the opposite.
This sort of sneaky disruption is particularly damaging in wikipedia. It is becoming a pattern with User:FoliesTrévise.Faustian (talk) 18:05, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
I think these sentences need some clarification:
In the 1936/37 academic year only 344 Ukrainians (13.3%)in comparison to 2599 Poles were enrolled in middle school. In the 1938/9 academic year only 6 Ukrainians were accepted for tertiary education.[58] In Poland, there was one Polish gymnasium for every 16,000 Poles but only one Ukrainian gymnazium for every 230,000 Ukrainians.
Basically, what are these % of and how is the last one calculated? I find it hard to believe that only 2600 Poles or 344 Ukrainians were enrolled in middle school - out of a population of almost 30 million. Either the term "middle school" means something other than how it is commonly used, this is data for just one town or something else is going on. And this 13.3% - 13.3 percent of what? All students enrolled? All Ukrainians of middle school age?
Ok, I looked more carefully at the last sentence and it makes sense, so no problem with that - except that "gymnasium" should be spelled consistently. Volunteer Marek 17:36, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Actually that whole section has a lot of typos in it, both in the text and in the references. That's minor though and can be quickly corrected. Volunteer Marek 17:37, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
I put the 13.3% of ethnic Ukrainians in context by citing the 13.9% of ethnic Ukrainians in the 1931 Polish census, which debunks the claim of injustice in the statistics of secondary education in the Second Polish Republic. No reason has been stated for the removal of that pertinent bit of information, only a personal attack. The numbers cited need to be put in a broader context of other years, and the number of other ethnic groups at different levels, etc. Someone here has another agenda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 11:39, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Since there appears to be consensus that the census number should be included, I put them there despite the fact that Faustian removed them, despite his claims to the contrary. In 1910, Ruthenians had an illiteracy rate of 60% in Galicia. Maybe that should be included? For a proper perspective, maybe we need information about language schools for other minorities, i.e., Jews, Germans, and Belorussians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.162.128.43 (talk) 14:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Reliable Sources say that rural Ukrainian literacy increased under Poland. There was 6 years of war which you conveniently omit.
This is about the Ukrainian minority in Poland and its single language educational policies. How many Polish citizens who spoke Ukrainian as a first language studied in Vienna or Czecho-Slavakia during the inter war period? If relevant it should go in a foot note.
We are discussing the effect of the single language education policy as it affected the Polish nation's minority that spoke Ukrainian as a first language. Since the 1931 Polish census distinguished only based upon the first language spoken, it is mixing apples and oranges to compare ethnic Ukrainians who spoke Polish as a first language with those who spoke Ukrainian as a first language. Therefore, I deleted it, but feel free to add your comments to Wiki page about the census. I added a link for readers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 13:10, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
So according to Iryna Shlikhta in Nationalism as a Play: Ukrainian Nationalists Playing in the Inter-War Poland, which I have cited, the "underground" university and Polytechnical school were funded by a "Ukrainian Local Student Soviet" which was supported by the Ukrainian Nationalists. This suggests collaboration between the Ukrainian nationalists and the Communists to subvert to Polish state. Any known sources about this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 13:43, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
NOTICE OF EXCEPTIONAL CLAIMS REQUIRE EXCEPTIONAL PROOF RULE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:REDFLAG#Exceptional_claims_require_exceptional_sources
Claims that a Sovereign nation discriminated against an ethnic minority is an exceptional claim which requires exceptional proof. Sources cited are only from the ethnic group claiming to be the victims of discrimination. More neutral sources are required to support this claim. Faustian is mischaracterizing the 1931 Polish census which counted people not by ethnicity, but by first language spoken. The educational records from Poland use the same metric, first language spoken, not ethnicity. Faustian is clearly in error here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.174.5.82 (talk) 19:24, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Claims that a Sovereign nation discriminated against an ethnic minority is an exceptional claim - not really, as it happened (and still happens) all the time. I think it's also in Snyder and possibly in the Radziejowski source though I haven't looked at that one yet.Volunteer Marek 19:28, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Rabid Ukrainian Nationalist Faustian is violating the 1RR and has just deleted statements from a conference at Oxford university: http://www.inter-disciplinary.net/probing-the-boundaries/making-sense-of/play/conference-programme-abstracts-and-papers/
Conference Programme, Abstracts and Papers 2nd Global Conference Monday 22nd July – Wednesday 24th July 2013 Mansfield College, Oxford
Now I understand that he considers himself superior to what Oxford University deems academically proper, but he is out of line here. This is going up. Sanctions will be requested. The Ukrainian Nationalist bias of this page violates NPOV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.174.5.82 (talk) 19:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
After World War I Poland found itself with two very different ethnic Ukrainian regions (Galicia and Volhynia), with different histories, religions, etc. Poland pursued different policies in each of these regions. Perhaps the section involving interwar Poland ought to be reorganized, with a general section (National Democrat vs. Pilsudski approaches, total Uke population, etc.) covering the background information and then two sections, one about Galicia and one about Volhynia, each with its own subheadings devoted to significant aspects of life under Polish rule. This might be less confusing and might palce the info (such as Orthodox Church destruction) in its proper geographic context.Faustian (talk) 19:42, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a large Ukrainian bias in this work so far which repeats Soviet style antipolonism without sources. The difference between the self declared Lithuanian Pilsudski and the idiot Dmowski needs to be addressed to explain where things went wrong. Ethnically mixed Catholic Galicia needs to be distinguished from Orthodox Volhnia. These were different regions culturally, ethnically, and by religion. Modern Ukrainians don't understand how different Galicia was before WWII. 195.238.180.57 (talk) 10:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Jan Gross supports that there was much Soviet anti-Polish propaganda at work here against all things Polilsh: Jan Tomasz Gross, Revolution from Abroad: The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western Ukraine and Western Belorussia, Princeton University Press, 2002, ISBN 0-691-09603-1, p. 35-36 Soviet Propaganda is also referenced elsewhere and should be included. Gross is cited elsewhere in Wikipedia on this point, and it should be addressed here to avoid the Ukrainian Nationalist POV being promoted by some here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 11:19, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
There's several issues of contention in this revert [9] (and the corresponding other one). Looking over it quickly I tend to think that Faustian's version is more neutral and, well, just better. For example, I don't see the point in noting that Pilsudski was a "a self declared Lithuanian" - why is that relevant or related, even putting aside what "Lithuanian" actually means in this context?
Some of the other stuff is simply weaseling the language, like replacing "Ethnic Ukrainians were slightly underrepresented in the secondary education system" with "Ukrainian language speakers may have been slightly underrepresented in the secondary education system", and Himka is a reliable source so there's no justification for removal of that.
The other issue is the citing to this "play" conference. I don't see a reason to insert "short lived" in there, especially if it did have 1500 students (which AFAICT is not being disputed)
The other claims based on this paper are that
So there is some interesting info here, though I do think it'd be good to find other sources, ones written by historians, to back this up.
I also don't see much point in changing:
Ukrainians were worse off in Poland than they were in neighboring Czechoslovakia. In that country, the first Ukrainian school system was only established in 1918 and already by 1921-1922 89 percent of Ukrainian children were enrolled in Ukrainian-language schools.
to
Ukrainians unhappy with Polish language instruction were free to study in the Ukrainian language in Vienna or Czechoslovakia.
That seems like a pretty POV (and frankly somewhat obnoxious) way of putting it. Here I'll have to take a closer look at the Radziejowski source.
Is there a way we could incorporate the two bulleted points into the text but leave out the other anon IP changes? Volunteer Marek 01:15, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Herviberit, thank you for join us to add a very welcome additional point of view. The work cited by Radziejowski was first published in Communist Poland in 1976 before making its way West into English: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0920862241/ref=dp_proddesc_1?ie=UTF8&n=283155 The comment is only used as introductory or background information, and is simply repeating Communist era propaganda against the Second Polish Republic. Nothing published under communism can be considered a reliable source unless it is independently confirmed. The fall of communism has allowed modern historians to reexamine the history of the era. Some here don't want to move away from the official Communist version of history, and some here continue to push a POV that Poland had some obligation to continue the Hapsburg educational system that left it trailing a country like Germany in industrialization. Poland had good reason for instituting one national language for education, but if that goes up on the page it won't stay for long, because it will disruptive to the POV being pushed here.```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 13:15, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the author of that "play" paper is/was a history graduate student at this university. That paper [13] is actually an interesting read though I would also hesitate to use it as a reliable source (it might be ok for some things) and it's the kind of "history work" that can be sort of irritating.Volunteer Marek 02:15, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
The source here is a professor of history in a Ukrainian university who is considered an authority on the Second Polish Republic. Therefore, she is a reliable source and is recognized as such at universities in Poland and Oxford University in the UK. Whether or not this specific work has been peer reviewed, does not impeach the author as a reliable source as much as someone here wants to ignore her work and academic status in Ukraine and abroad.
Also note that Faustian is being reported for edit warring, cyberhounding/cyberstaliking and harassment and in violation of Wiki policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 11:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#History_of_the_Ukrainian_minority_in_Poland. Thank you. —194.44.15.214 (talk) 11:16, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello, History of the Ukrainian minority in Poland. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is History of the Ukrainian minority in Poland.The discussion is about the topic topic. Thank you. --194.44.15.214 (talk) 14:52, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
I have serious concerns about the NPOV of this page and think it needs to be merged with something else such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_minority_in_Poland or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonization
There is a problem with one editor attempting to dominate the page with a certain ethnic POV about some great injustice done to those who spoke a Ruthenian language and where not at least bilingual Polish speakers. He is promoting a POV that Poland had some moral or legal obligation to continue the Hapsburg model of education that left the Hapsburg empire trailing Germany industrially. He refuses to acknowledge that Poland's policy of one national language was in the national interest of modernization and industrialization, that it opened educational opportunities to minorities in all Polish universities and polytechnical schools nationwide, and that Poles who had been educated in German, or Russian were also adversely affected by this policy.
Although the page is about the Ukrainian minority in Poland, he wants to discuss how other former Hapsburg nationals educated their Ruthenian populations, while ignoring the affects of the single language educational policy in Poland effected other ethnic groups in the Second Polish Republic. If we are to start comparing Poland's educational system linguistically with regard to the rest of Europe, it would need to include Germany where the Pomerianan language is now extinct — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 14:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
The work cited by Radziejowski was first published in Communist Poland in 1976 before making its way West into an English translation in 1983: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0920862241/ref=dp_proddesc_1?ie=UTF8&n=283155 (The translation is not a revised edition, nor is a translation of book from a foreign language by university press an endorsement that the content is accurate.) The comment is only used as introductory or background information, and is simply repeating Communist era propaganda against the Second Polish Republic. Nothing published under communism can be considered a reliable source unless it is independently confirmed. The fall of communism has allowed modern historians to reexamine the history of the era. Some here don't want to move away from the official Communist version of history.
According to the quote from Faustian, life was better for Ukrainians in the Soviet Union than it was in the Second Polish Republic. Now better is a subjective term, but considering the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor occurred in the Ukrainian S.S.R., it defies belief from anyone other than a communist apologist. So did the Holodomor not occur, or was there a greater policy of starvation of Ruthenian peoples in the Second Polish Republic that no one has ever reported? You will note the response, or lack thereof, from the editor presently holding the page hostage to his POV.
Jan Gross also disagrees and note that Poles saw "in the marketplace how these Soviet people ate eggs, shell and all, horseradish, beets, and other produce. Country women rolled with laughter" Jan Gross, Revolution from Abroad: The Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western Ukraine and Western Belorussia (2002), pg. 46 We have other contemporary accounts: "All witnesses are unanimous in stating that the Bolshevik troops on entering this part of Poland (which was generally regarded as a poor and backward region) were seized with admiration for the extraordinary wealth and abundance of the country into which they marched. … The women," writes an eye-witness, " wore rags wrapped round their feet or felt slippers, instead of shoes: they brought all their family belongings in one battered suitcase, and sometimes even an iron bedstead. Bedding was not known to them and the luxury of fresh linen was never dreamed of in the Soviet Republic, even by dignitaries and important women commissars. The pick of the Soviets sent out for display to this bourgeois country were ignorant of the simplest arrangements of everyday life. Accustomed to being herded together, they did not understand the superfluous habit of enjoying individual lodgings: bathrooms and kitchens they considered as uncanny inventions, and their way of feeding and housekeeping could - by its extreme misery and primitivity - only make one think of the simplicity of requirements attributed to cave-dwellers." The Soviet Occupation of Poland , Free Europe Pamphlet #3, (1940) edited by Casimir Smogorzewski. http://felsztyn.tripod.com/id15.html
Please note that the term Ruthenian applies to a family of languages which includes Belarussian, Ukrainian, and Rusyn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenian_language Also note that only Ukrainian Nationalists refuse to recognize Rusyn as a separate language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyn_language
Now what Faustian refers to as “blatant falsification of a source” was in fact moderating POV from a clearly unreliable and dated source. He simply refuses to work collaboratively with others who attempt to edit the page and resorts to labeling anyone with a differing perspective “disruptive”. However, another editor posted the following reply about Ukrainian language instruction in Czechoslovakia “Acc. to Magocsi: "even by the end of the 1930s the general environment in the province [ Carpathian Ruthenia ] was not pro-Ukrainian. This was evident in the results of a kind of referendum carried out in 1937 by the Czechoslovak government among local parents, who were asked which language they wanted for instruction in schools. A majority of schools (73 percent) voted against having their children taught in Ukrainian. The height of Ukrainian propaganda in Subcarpathia was reached in late 1938-early 1939, during the period of autonomous Carpatho-Ukraine. The subsequent period of Hungarian rule revealed, however, that the Ukrainian idea penetrated only a small percentage of young people. In general, Rusyn society remained indifferent to Ukrainian propaganda in 1938-1939, and if anything, felt nostalgia for the previous era of Czechoslovak rule. (...) In 1946 all Rusyns were by force recorded by the Soviet administrative organs as Ukrainian." (Encyclopedia of Rusyn history and culture. 2005. p. 512). Rusyns are recognized as a national/ethnic minority and have separate linguistic status in all the east European states in which they live, except Ukraine - Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, BiH (European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages)” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_the_Ukrainian_minority_in_Poland#Dispute Again you will note the contentious response from Faustian, and how the entire page is being dominated by Faustian, with the concurrence of exactly one other user name, whose purpose appears to be to appear whenever Faustian has one of his many disagreements with other editors to side with Faustian. This page simply lacks anything approaching a NPOV.
In conclussion, using Soviet era Communist propaganda from a 1976 communist publication is not a NPOV and it is the person who insists on employing it who is being disruptive, petty, and narrow minded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.44.15.214 (talk) 14:45, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Obviously, someone here is ignorant of the difference between a revised or second edition and a censored text. Polish censors would blank out things that could not be published. Things were published with blank white space to show that something had been censored. All that has been stated is that that the original text was published in the West in 1983 with the censored text now published in an English translation. This is not a second edition of anything. Even if the work was published in the West, this individual never appears to have emigrated from the Soviet Bloc at the time and also would have been under pressure to not stray to far from official Soviet history to keep his job. The work dates to 1976 or earlier, and is also dated. It must be again noted that education is not the focus of the work, and the context of the quote is that all things were better for Ukrainians and Belorussians in the Soviet Union than they were in the Second Polish Republic in the interwar period. Now that is an incredible statement considering the mass starvation in Soviet Ukraine, but hey, the food was confiscated by a government that used Ukrainian as an official language. So things must have been better in the U.S.S.R. even if people had to resort to cannibalism of dead family members to survive. Better really depends on one's POV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.95.32.229 (talk) 18:19, 14 June 2013 (UTC) So here is the rest of the quote from Janusz Radziejowski: "In the 1920s, the situation of the Ukrainian and Belarussian minorities was generally worse than in neighboring countries; in terms of employment and wages, Ukrainians and Belarussians were even worse off than they had been in tsarist Russia...”
For this statement to have been true, for Ukrainian and Belarussian minorities to have been worse than in neighboring countries in terms of employment and wages, this would mean that Ukrainians and Belarussians in the Second Polish Republic would have been worse off than those it the Soviet Union. So I have asked Faustian this question: “So did the Holodomor not occur, or was there a greater policy of starvation of Ruthenian peoples in the Second Polish Republic that no one has ever reported?”
He has not answered that question. He has given us a link to a discussion about how many died in the Holodomor, from which we may assume that he is now acknowledging that it did occur. Therefore, we must demand that he provide us evidence of a greater policy of starvation of Ruthenian peoples in the Second Polish Republic that no one has ever reported. We are waiting...
Lastly, even a respected academic is limited by the information which is available to him. When all that is available to him is official government propaganda, the conclusions which he tdraws from that information are unreliable. This should be obvious to anyone with any common sense, but those who have an agenda refuse to consider common sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.95.32.229 (talk) 18:52, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Garbage in, Garbage out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.95.32.229 (talk) 18:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
A fair comparison of life for Ruthenians in the interwar period in Poland vs. the U.S.S.R. would note that those in the U.S.S.R. had been systematically starved, while in Poland there was relative prosperity, and not the propaganda that has been presented here by you and your Communist era historian without any credible source. They did have options to choose which country in which they wanted to live under the Treaty of Riga and St. Germain. Somehow life in the U.S.S.R. could hardly be considered better by any serious person. But using your sole metric of recognition of Ukrainian as an official language, the thousands of deaths in the Holodomor are irrelevant for comparison. That is your point of view, but most people would consider its effect of those deaths and the effects of malnutrition and psychological effects of cannibalism on the survivors.
Furthermore, it is well noted that the closest thing to a referendum on Soviet rule in the Kresy (Eastern Poland) was when men attempted to vote with their feet and join the Polish army of General Anders. The Soviets refused to permit many who were not ethnic Poles from leaving the U.S.S.R. (Harvey Sarner, Anders and the Soldiers of the Second Polish Corps (1998) pg. 95, 101) So much for how bad things were in the Second Polish Republic. Your myth is busted and so is the communist era propaganda. Of course, Ukrainian nationalists have different heroes: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52209227
The following refutes your claims which you are using to further disrupt participation on this board: “Also, there is no prohibition on editing non-protected articles using an IP address. If one makes frequent good-faith edits without an account, and the result is a large number of IP addresses being attributed to his/her edits, no violation has occurred. “ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_sock_puppetry#IP_sock_puppetry Continue the harassment at your own risk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.95.33.133 (talk) 15:27, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Dear IP, rather than posting long paragraphs about what you think the situation was, please at least reference a specific passage in the article and source. There already is a sentence in the article which states "the Ukrainian cultural life and political representation in Poland sharply contrasted with that of the Stalinist Soviet Union.[37] The Ukrainian people in the Soviet Ukraine "suffered more from Stalin's rule than any other European part of the USSR" in the same period, ravaged by the terror of Great Famine and the killing of thousands of educated Ukrainians" which addresses most of your points. The comparison with other countries that I see is that with Czechoslovakia, which was discussed above. And in the case of Czechoslovakia the situation of Ukrainians, at least in terms of education, was indeed better than in the 2nd Polish Republic. I don't see any comparisons with Belarus. I also don't see any statement claiming that life was better in Soviet Ukraine, unless I'm missing something.Volunteer Marek 16:00, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
At the beginning some Ukrainians opted for migrations, so not all of them were forcibly moved.Xx236 (talk) 07:14, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
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