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This article was split of from Nazi occultism. Please see there for the previous discussion. Zara1709 11:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_aliens
I'm pretty sure the above article is somehow deeply connected to Serrano's and the others' theories... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.136.2.44 (talk) 07:42, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
From Henry Corbin, Spiritual Body and Celestial Earth (trans. Nancy Pearson, Princeton University Press, 1989, pps. 71-72).
"...That is why the progression, which this mode of thought makes it possible for us to conceive, is not a horizontal linear evolution, but an ascent from cycle to cycle, from one octave to a higher octave. A few pages from the same Shaikh, which have been translated here, illustrate this. The spiritual history of humanity since Adam is the cycle of prophecy following the cycle of cosmogony; but though the former follows in the train of the latter, it is in the nature of a reversion, a return and reascent to the pleroma. This has a gnostic flavor to be sure, but that is exactly what it means to 'see things in Hurqalya.' It means to see man and his world essentially in a vertical direction. The Orient-origin, which orients and magnetizes the return and reascent, is the celestial pole, the cosmic North, the 'emerald rock' at the summit of the cosmic mountain of Qaf, in the very place where the world of Hurqalya begins; so it is not a region situated East on the maps, not even those old maps that place the East at the top, in place of the North. The meaning of man and the meaning of his world are conferred upon them by this polar dimension, and not by a linear, horizontal and one-dimensional evolution, that famous 'sense of history' which nowadays has been taken for granted, even though the terms of reference on which it is based remain entirely hypothetical.
Moreover, the paradise of Yima in which are preserved the most beautiful of beings who will repopulate a transfigured world, namely, the Var that preserves the seed of the resurrection bodies, is situated in the North. The Earth of Light, the Terra Lucida of Manicheism, like that of Mazdeism [Zoroastrianism], is also situated in the direction of the cosmic North. In the same way, according to the mystic Abd al-Karim Jili, the 'earth of the souls' is a region in the far North, the only one not to have been affected by the consequences of the fall of Adam. It is the abode of the 'men of the Invisible,' ruled by the mysterious prophet Khizr (Khadir). A characteristic feature is that its light is that of the 'midnight sun,' since the evening prayer is unknown there, dawn rising before the sun has set. And here it might be useful to look at all the symbols that converge toward the paradise of the North, the souls' Earth of Light and castle of the Grail...." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.10.2 (talk) 18:48, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
This page should be titled Esoteric neo-nazism or Esoteric neo-fascism in order to abide by naming conventions used on most of the other pages on fascism and Nazism. Benoist is hardly a Nazi or neonazi. Some debate even calling him a neofascist.--Cberlet 05:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I take your point, but I still don't see a problem. Visitors to either Esoteric Nazism or Nazi occultism will immediately discover what is included, and where to read about stuff they might have imagined was included.
Goodrick-Clarke's terminology is what it is. He perceives that neo-Nazis are a subset of Nazis. (You wouldn't argue that we can't call ourselves mammals because we are primates.) However, if you are still unhappy about it, we could sidestep the terminology. I've re-read Goodrick-Clarke and Godwin on the Landig group and they clearly fall in with the Evolians rather than Serrano. So there is no reason why we can't list that group separately on Neo-völkisch movements — it was a sort of connecting link between NVM and earlier völkisch/Ariosophical mysticism — and, more immediately, move the contents of the present article to Esoteric Hitlerism. (I am hoping that you will not suggest "Esoteric neo-Hitlerism"!) Result: two rather better defined articles. If we inserted a short explanation of G-C's ill-defined Esoteric Nazism on Neo-völkisch movements, this page could redirect to there. Gnostrat (talk) 00:12, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree; even though this is an old discussion, I've moved the article as discussed and added hatnotes on both article so the reader knows the difference and can find the material they were looking for. Skyerise (talk) 11:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
No wonder Serrano and his gang consider the ancient Book of Enoch so interesting: it describes the white Nordic physiotype as superhuman and "angelic":
http://www.lunaeterna.net/popcult/religion.htm
Noah as a newborn is described as being very pale in appearance, with white hair and skin. His looks are so unusual that his father, Lamech, initially suspects his wife of having had an adulterous affair with a lusty fallen angel....
CHAPTER 106 (FRAGMENT FROM THE BOOK OF NOAH) And after some days my son Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son. And his body was white as snow and red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair of his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him and fled, and came to his father Methuselah. And he said unto him: "I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.10.1 (talk) 07:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Readers interested in Evola, Serrano, etc. should also take a look at the Nordic Alien entry here. Benjamin Creme believes in a scenario quite similar to Evola and Serrano, with hyperphysical Venusian Nordic aliens from the extramundane etheric plane guiding the evolution of earthlings, etc. The Theosophical inspiration is here again quite evident. Theosophy seems inextricably linked with far-out root-race and therefore racialist ideas in modern history.
More on the Book of Enoch-Theosophical-Ufologist-Nazi connection:
http://www.echoesofenoch.com/meetthenordics.htm
Sumathi Ramaswamy, The Lost Land of Lemuria (University of California Press, 2004), p. 68: Indeed, Theosophy generates a complex geography of human races in which all the black peoples of the world are either Lemurians or their degenerate descendents, while the most advanced peoples of today--white Caucasians--are members of the fifth Root-race, far removed from them (77). In the Theosophical evolutionism, as Spirit--or Monad or Pilgrim--works its way through the history of the earth, it "is compelled to incarnate in, or rather contact, every race" (78). As it marches across the history of the earth, Spirit manifests itself in the form of the various Root-races and sub-races which it successively sheds as it surges upward toward our present Fifth Race, the most perfect so far. Those who get left behind--referred to variously as "sluggards" and "failures"--are destined to stagnate. Arguably, this enchanted evolutionary vision is much more racist and hierarchical than that espoused by many a contemporary disenchanted materialist, for millions of years separate the white Anglo-Saxon from the black aborigine whose origins are ascribed to the "racial decay" that besets the seventh sub-race in the closing years of Lemuria's life on earth (79). Further, rather than emerging from the more perfected forms of the Fourth Root-race on Atlantis, as the majority of northern humanity do, the blacks of the world--"fallen, degraded semblances of humanity"--are deemed to be descendents of a Root-race that was ultimately transcended by other, superior forms (80). Lemuria is handy in this regard as well, allowing the Theosophist to not only place the lower, degraded specimens of humanity in a different time, but also to isolate them further from the more evolved races by tracing their origins to a totally different continental configuration (81). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.136.1.133 (talk) 07:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
PLease have a look on Schellinger, Uwe; Anton, Andreas; Schetsche, Michael T. (2015). Pragmatic Occultism in the Military History of the Third Reich”. In Black, Monica, and Eric Kurlander: Revisiting the "nazi Occult" Histories, Realities, Legacies (NED New ed.). Boydell & Brewer. JSTOR link. pp. 157–80.
Quote After 1945, a consensus held that occultism -- an ostensibly anti-modern, irrational blend of pseudo-religious and -scientific practices and ideas -- had directly facilitated Nazism's rise. More recently, scholarly debate has denied the occult a role in shaping the Third Reich, emphasizing the Nazis' hostility to esoteric religion and alternative forms of knowledge. Bringing together cutting-edge scholarship on the topic, this volume calls for a fundamental reappraisal of these positions.
That said, the article is a) based on conspiracy theories started by rightwing authors of popular German books in the 1950ies and 60ies, refreshed by Goodrick-Clarke, b) does not embrace the newer research denying any connection and c) has no idea about the current picture presented by Schellinger et al which is much more differentiated. I see some need for rework. Polentarion Talk 18:55, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
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See discussion at Talk:Occultism_in_Nazism#Merge_with_Esoteric_Nazism (please comment there to avoid splitting up the discussion). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)