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Want to add new information about Donald Trump? Please consider choosing the most appropriate article, for example: |
Q1: This page is biased towards/against Trump because it mentions/doesn't mention x. Why won't you fix it?
A1: Having a neutral point of view does not mean giving equal weight to all viewpoints. Rather, it refers to Wikipedia's effort to discuss topics and viewpoints in a roughly equal proportion to the degree that they are discussed in reliable sources, which in political articles is mostly mainstream media, although academic works are also sometimes used. For further information, please read Talk:Donald Trump/Response to claims of bias. Q2: Donald Trump has been convicted in the New York trial on felony charges. Why doesn't the opening sentence say that he is a convicted felon?
A2: Wikipedia works by consensus; new information can only be added if it is either uncontroversial or if there is community consensus in favour of the addition.
A discussion on the topic of whether the first sentence should use the wording of convicted felon was held, and the outcome was 'No Consensus'; per Wikipedia's established policy and practice, this means that change is not endorsed by the community, and that the requested addition should not be made. Q3: A recent request for comment had X votes for support and Y votes for oppose. Why was it closed as no consensus when one position had more support than the other?
A3: Wikipedia is built on consensus, which means that editors and contributors here debate the merits of adding, subtracting, or rearranging the information. Consensus is not a vote, rather it is a discussion among community members over how best to interpret and apply information within the bounds of our policy and guideline infrastructure. Often, but not always, the community finds itself unable to obtain consensus for changes or inclusions to the article. In other cases, the community may decide that consensus exists to add or modify material based on the strength of the arguments made by members citing relevant policy and guideline related material here. This can create confusion for new comers or those unfamiliar with Wikipedia's consensus building processes, especial since consensus can change. While all are welcome to participate in consensus building, keep in mind that the best positions for or against including material are based on policy and guideline pages, so it may be in your best interest to read up on Wikipedia's policies and guidelines before diving into the debates. |
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NOTE: It is recommended to link to this list in your edit summary when reverting, as:[[Talk:Donald Trump#Current consensus|current consensus]] item [n]
To ensure you are viewing the current list, you may wish to .
official White House portrait as the infobox image. (Dec 2016, Jan 2017, Oct 2017, March 2020) (temporarily suspended by #19 following copyright issues on the inauguration portrait, enforced when an official public-domain portrait was released on 31 October 2017)
1. Use theQueens, New York City, U.S.
" in the infobox. (Nov 2016, Oct 2018, Feb 2021) "New York City" de-linked. (September 2020)
gaining a majority of the U.S. Electoral College" and "
receiving a smaller share of the popular vote nationwide", without quoting numbers. (Nov 2016, Dec 2016) (Superseded by #15 since 11 February 2017)
Oct 2016) In the lead section, just write: Removed from the lead per #47.
Forbes estimates his net worth to be [$x.x] billion.
(July 2018, July 2018)
Many of his public statements were controversial or false." in the lead. (Sep 2016, February 2017, wording shortened per April 2017, upheld with July 2018) (superseded by #35 since 18 February 2019)
without prior military or government service
". (Dec 2016)
Include a link to Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (Jan 2017) Include a link to an archive of Trump's Twitter account in the "External links" section. (Jan 2021)
12. The article title is Donald Trump, not Donald J. Trump. (RM Jan 2017, RM June 2019)
13. Auto-archival is set for discussions with no comments for 14 days. Manual archival is allowed for (1) closed discussions, 24 hours after the closure, provided the closure has not been challenged, and (2) "answered" edit requests, 24 hours after the "answer", provided there has been no follow-on discussion after the "answer". (Jan 2017) (amended with respect to manual archiving, to better reflect common practice at this article) (Nov 2019)
14. Omit mention of Trump's alleged bathmophobia/fear of slopes. (Feb 2017)
Trump won the general election on November 8, 2016, …"). Accordingly the pre-RfC text (Diff 8 Jan 2017) has been restored, with minor adjustments to past tense (Diff 11 Feb 2018). No new changes should be applied without debate. (RfC Feb 2017, Jan 2017, Feb 2017, Feb 2017) In particular, there is no consensus to include any wording akin to "losing the popular vote". (RfC March 2017) (Superseded by local consensus on 26 May 2017 and lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017)
Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current president of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality." The hatnote is simply ((Other uses)). (April 2017, RfC April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, April 2017, July 2017, Dec 2018) Amended by lead section rewrite on 23 June 2017 and removal of inauguration date on 4 July 2018. Lower-case "p" in "president" per Dec 2018 and MOS:JOBTITLES RfC Oct 2017. Wikilinks modified per April 2020. Wikilink modified again per July 2020. "45th" de-linked. (Jan 2021)
Wharton School (BS Econ.)", does not mention Fordham University. (April 2017, April 2017, Aug 2020, Dec 2020)
20. Mention protests in the lead section with this exact wording: His election and policies
(June 2017, May 2018) (Note: In February 2021, when he was no longer president, the verb tense was changed from "have sparked" to "sparked", without objection.)
have sparked numerous protests.
22. Do not call Trump a "liar" in Wikipedia's voice. Falsehoods he uttered can be mentioned, while being mindful of calling them "lies", which implies malicious intent. (RfC Aug 2017, upheld by RfC July 2024)
Trump ordered a travel ban on citizens from several Muslim-majority countries, citing security concerns; after legal challenges, the Supreme Court upheld the policy's third revision.(Aug 2017, Nov 2017, Dec 2017, Jan 2018, Jan 2018) Wording updated (July 2018) and again (Sep 2018).
25. In citations, do not code the archive-related parameters for sources that are not dead. (Dec 2017, March 2018)
26. Do not include opinions by Michael Hayden and Michael Morell that Trump is a "useful fool […] manipulated by Moscow"
or an "unwitting agent of the Russian Federation"
. (RfC April 2018)
27. State that Trump falsely claimed
that Hillary Clinton started the Barack Obama birther
rumors. (April 2018, June 2018)
28. Include, in the Wealth section, a sentence on Jonathan Greenberg's allegation that Trump deceived him in order to get on the Forbes 400 list. (June 2018, June 2018)
29. Include material about the Trump administration family separation policy in the article. (June 2018)
30. Supersedes #24. The lead includes: "Many of his comments and actions have been characterized as racially charged or racist.
" (RfC Sep 2018, Oct 2018, RfC May 2019)
31. Do not mention Trump's office space donation to Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/Push Coalition in 1999. (Nov 2018)
32. Omit from the lead the fact that Trump is the first sitting U.S. president to meet with a North Korean supreme leader. (RfC July 2018, Nov 2018)
33. Do not mention "birtherism" in the lead section. (RfC Nov 2018)
34. Refer to Ivana Zelníčková as a Czech model, with a link to Czechs (people), not Czechoslovakia (country). (Jan 2019)
Trump has made many false or misleading statements during his campaign and presidency. The statements have been documented by fact-checkers, and the media have widely described the phenomenon as unprecedented in American politics.(RfC Feb 2019)
37. Resolved: Content related to Trump's presidency should be limited to summary-level about things that are likely to have a lasting impact on his life and/or long-term presidential legacy. If something is borderline or debatable, the resolution does not apply. (June 2019)
38. Do not state in the lead that Trump is the wealthiest U.S. president ever. (RfC June 2019)
39. Supersedes #21 and #36. Do not include any paragraph regarding Trump's mental health or mental fitness for office. Do not bring up for discussion again until an announced formal diagnosis or WP:MEDRS-level sources are provided. This does not prevent inclusion of content about temperamental fitness for office. (RfC Aug 2019, July 2021)
40. Include, when discussing Trump's exercise or the lack thereof: He has called golfing his "primary form of exercise", although he usually does not walk the course. He considers exercise a waste of energy, because he believes the body is "like a battery, with a finite amount of energy" which is depleted by exercise.
(RfC Aug 2019)
41. Omit book authorship (or lack thereof) from the lead section. (RfC Nov 2019)
42. House and Senate outcomes of the impeachment process are separated by a full stop. For example: He was impeached by the House on December 18, 2019, for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. He was acquitted of both charges by the Senate on February 5, 2020.
(Feb 2020)
43. The rules for edits to the lead are no different from those for edits below the lead. For edits that do not conflict with existing consensus: Prior consensus is NOT required. BOLD edits are allowed, subject to normal BRD process. The mere fact that an edit has not been discussed is not a valid reason to revert it. (March 2020)
44. The lead section should mention North Korea, focusing on Trump's meetings with Kim and some degree of clarification that they haven't produced clear results. (RfC May 2020)
46. Use the caption "Official portrait, 2017" for the infobox image. (Aug 2020, Jan 2021)
47. Do not mention Trump's net worth or Forbes ranking (or equivalents from other publications) in the lead, nor in the infobox. (Sep 2020)
48. Supersedes #45. Trump's reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic should be mentioned in the lead section. There is no consensus on specific wording, but the status quo is Trump reacted slowly to the COVID-19 pandemic; he minimized the threat, ignored or contradicted many recommendations from health officials, and promoted false information about unproven treatments and the availability of testing.
(Oct 2020, RfC Aug 2020)
49. Supersedes #35. Include in lead: Trump has made many false and misleading statements during his campaigns and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics.
(Dec 2020)
50. Supersedes #17. The lead sentence is: Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American politician, media personality, and businessman who served as the 45th president of the United States from 2017 to 2021.
(March 2021), amended (July 2021), inclusion of politician (RfC September 2021)
51. Include in the lead that many of Trump's comments and actions have been characterized as misogynistic. (Aug 2021 and Sep 2021)
52. Supersedes #23. The lead should contain a summary of Trump's actions on immigration, including the Muslim travel ban (cf. item 23), the wall, and the family separation policy. (September 2021)
53. The lead should mention that Trump promotes conspiracy theories. (RfC October 2021)
54. Include in the lead that, quote, Scholars and historians rank Trump as one of the worst presidents in U.S. history.
(RfC October 2021)
55. Regarding Trump's comments on the 2017 far-right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia
, do not wiki-link "Trump's comments" in this manner. (RfC December 2021)
56. Retain the content that Trump never confronted Putin over its alleged bounties against American soldiers in Afghanistan
but add context. Current wording can be altered or contextualized; no consensus was achieved on alternate wordings. (RfC November 2021) Trump's expressions of doubt regarding the Russian Bounties Program should be included in some capacity, though there there is no consensus on a specific way to characterize these expressed doubts. (RfC March 2022)
57. Do not mention in the lead Gallup polling that states Trump's the only president to never reach 50% approval rating. (RfC January 2022)
58. Use inline citations in the lead for the more contentious and controversial statements. Editors should further discuss which sentences would benefit from having inline citations. (RfC May 2022, discussion on what to cite May 2022)
59. Do not label or categorize Trump as a far-right politician. (RfC August 2022)
60. Insert the links described in the RfC January 2023.
61. When a thread is started with a general assertion that the article is biased for or against Trump (i.e., without a specific, policy-based suggestion for a change to the article), it is to be handled as follows:
((archive top))
and ((archive bottom))
, referring to this consensus item.This does not apply to posts that are clearly in bad faith, which are to be removed on sight. (May 2023)
62. The article's description of the five people who died during and subsequent to the January 6 Capitol attack should avoid a) mentioning the causes of death and b) an explicit mention of the Capitol Police Officer who died. (RfC July 2023)
63. Supersedes #18. The alma mater field of the infobox reads: "University of Pennsylvania (BS)". (September 2023)
64. Omit the ((Very long))
tag. (January 2024)
65. Mention the Abraham Accords in the article; no consensus was achieved on specific wordings. (RfC February 2024)
66. Omit ((infobox criminal))
. (RfC June 2024)
67. The "Health habits" section includes: "Trump says he has never drunk alcohol, smoked cigarettes, or used drugs. He sleeps about four or five hours a night." (February 2021)
My 27 August posting of this graphic in the section /* 2024 presidential campaign */ was reversed, with the edit comment "It's a biography, not a political battleground. Recentism. Already in the campaign article."
Non-educational pic of Trump at a rally— the raised fist, the Secret Service detail surrounding him, and the MAGA mob on the stage may not be educational, but it illustrates the campaign rallies pretty well. The 2024 campaign section currently has this paragraph:
During the campaign, Trump made increasingly violent and authoritarian statements.[697][698][699][700] He also said that he would weaponize the FBI and the Justice Department against his political opponents,[701][702] and used harsher, more dehumanizing anti-immigrant rhetoric than during his presidency.[703][704][705][706]We could add another sentence:
He mentioned "rigged election" and "election interference" earlier and more frequently than in the 2016 and 2020 campaigns, using a "heads I win; tails you cheated" rhetorical strategy.[1]and add the graph without caption to illustrate it. There's room for the image and the graph in the section. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 17:08, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
References
a-picture-is-worth-a-thousand-wordswas a saying aimed at paintings and other visual media. Not graphs and pie charts. Zaathras (talk) 00:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
References
((cite web))
: |last=
has generic name (help)
((cite web))
: |last=
has generic name (help)
((cite web))
: |last=
has generic name (help)
2024 presidential campaign section
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On November 15, 2022, Trump announced his candidacy for the 2024 presidential election and set up a fundraising account.[1][2] In March 2023, the campaign began diverting 10 percent of the donations to Trump's leadership PAC. Trump's campaign had paid $100 million towards his legal bills by March 2024.[3][4] In December 2023, the Colorado Supreme Court ruled Trump disqualified for the Colorado Republican primary for his role in inciting the January 6, 2021, attack on Congress. In March 2024, the U.S. Supreme Court restored his name to the ballot in a unanimous decision, ruling that Colorado lacks the authority to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which bars insurrectionists from holding federal office.[5] During the campaign, Trump made increasingly violent and authoritarian statements.[6][7][8][9] He also said that he would weaponize the FBI and the Justice Department against his political opponents,[10][11] and used harsher, more dehumanizing anti-immigrant rhetoric than during his presidency.[12][13][14][15] Trump mentioned "rigged election" and "election interference" earlier and more frequently than in the 2016 and 2020 campaigns, using a "heads I win; tails you cheated" rhetorical strategy.[16] On July 13, 2024, Trump's ear was grazed by a bullet[17] in an assassination attempt at a campaign rally in Butler Township, Pennsylvania.[18][19] The campaign declined to disclose medical or hospital records.[20] Two days later, the 2024 Republican National Convention nominated Trump as their presidential candidate, with U.S. senator JD Vance as his running mate.[21] References
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The graph should have the neutral title "Trump election interference rhetoric" (or similar). The added text is bolded. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 11:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Mandruss, DN, SPECIFICO, John Bois, Zaathras, QuicoleJR, GoodDay: notifying everyone who has participated in this discussion so far that RCraig has changed the title of the graph from "Donald Trump’s groundwork for election denial" to "Donald Trump's sowing of election doubts". (No idea why the graph on this page still has the original title. The file at "File:20240524_Trump_groundwork_for_election_denial.svg" has the new title.) Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 13:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I still oppose the addition of the text & graph-in-question. GoodDay (talk) 19:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
I've added text and two RS to the article since there appears to be a consensus that text is acceptable. I don't understand the objections to the graph. It's a visualization of the information, without having to resort to "many more" or comparing numbers for 2016/2020/2024. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 15:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
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The issue is whether this graphic should be included, in any one of the sections, "2024 presidential campaign" or "False or misleading statements" or "Promotion of conspiracy theories". 15:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Be aware that User:Space4Time3Continuum2x helpfully added text to the "2024 presidential campaign" section: "(Trump) intensified his "heads I win; tails you cheated" rhetorical strategy, mentioning "rigged election" and "election interference" earlier and more frequently than in the 2016 and 2020 campaigns and refusing to commit to accepting the 2024 election results."source1source2. Accordingly, an image caption is probably not necessary, though one was provided in preceding discussion sections.
Various include and exclude/oppose arguments are presented above, without reaching consensus since August 30. —RCraig09 (talk) 15:08, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
He sows doubt about the legitimacy of the election, and then begins to capitalize on that doubt by alluding to not necessarily accepting the election results — unless, of course, he wins.It then says that it's a
rhetorical strategy — heads, I win; tails, you cheatedthat he's employed before, e.g., when The Apprentice didn't win an Emmy. Sowing takes two, the one who's throwing the seed and the fertile soil receiving it; rhetoric is only about what Trump says. (I may be overthinking this.) Editors saying that this will be irrelevant after the election is also WP:CRYSTALBALL. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 15:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
Clarification on opinion — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemov (talk • contribs) 20:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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He mentioned "rigged election" and "election interference" earlier and more frequently than in the 2016 and 2020 campaigns and refused to commit to accepting the 2024 election results;[708][709] analysts for The New York Times described this as an intensification of Trump's "heads I win; tails you cheated" rhetorical strategy.[709]Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 08:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
He mentioned "rigged election" and "election interference" earlier and more frequently than in the 2016 and 2020 campaigns and refused to commit to accepting the 2024 election results;[708][709] analysts for The New York Times described this as an intensification of Trump's "heads I win; tails you cheated" rhetorical strategy.[709]Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 08:03, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Is this presented anywhere in the constellation of articles that relate to Trump? I see no mention of it on this page. Thanks. 72.14.126.22 (talk) 20:24, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
I have removed a citation that appears to go directly to his birth certificate. User:Space4Time3Continuum2x has reverted it, citing the third sentence of WP:BLPPRIMARY. Here are all the sentences from that policy section, numbered for your convenience:
So... I'm pretty much thinking that the third sentence, which says "Do not use public records that include personal details" means that ref shouldn't be there at all. If by chance the fourth sentence was the intended one, that sentence indicates that it especially shouldn't be there by itself (if it's going to "to augment the secondary source", then there actually needs to be a secondary source there for it to augment). I think we should remove it as contrary to this policy and also unnecessary, but if we're going to keep it, then someone needs to find and add a secondary source that discusses the primary source.
WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
WikiProjects rate whole pages, not individual sections.Exactly; thank you.
As you say above [...]I said we might have different experiences. What I meant was that you might have seen significantly more links than I have; nothing more. My stats suggest that's probably not the case. I would suggest that you have an unusual interest in PRIMARYNEWS because you created it.My comments to date have been more about general process principles; it seemed to me you were asserting weight for an essay that does not have widespread support. If it was merely "my position is fully articulated here", that's different and my apologies for wasting your time. I think editors could be more careful to make that distinction.As for this specific case, I fail to see why a certified birth certificate is insufficient sourcing for a date or place of birth. Unless the author of a secondary source was present for the delivery, what verifiability can it possibly add? Besides the certified birth certificate, what basis would it use? Do we need a secondary source to exclude the possibility of a forged certified birth certificate? How can a certified birth certificate be good enough for very important legal purposes, but not good enough for Wikipedia? If you can make this make sense, go right ahead; I'm always open to learning via logical reasoning. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth." Birth certificates can only supplement WP:SECONDARY sources. They cannot be cited alone.
In the same section, there's another BLPPRIMARY citation problem. One of the claims is cited only to a public record from the "National Archives...via Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)", which is a violation of BLPPRIMARY. This is another instance of it doubtless being factually correct but still not being in compliance with the written policy. If someone doesn't want to find and add a WP:SECONDARY source, we will have to remove that primary source. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:10, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Two months later, on Sept. 17, 1968, he reported for an armed forces physical examination and was medically disqualified, according to the ledger from his local Selective Service System draft board in Jamaica, N.Y., now in the custody of the National Archives. The ledger does not detail why Trump failed the exam — the Selective Service destroyed all medical records and individual files after the draft ended in 1973 and the military converted to an all-volunteer force.I added both cites to the sentence. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 12:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
In the foreign policy section on Syria there was no mention of the support for Trump's missile strike on Syria so I included it [4] and it was reverted by User:Zaathras [5]. Bob K31416 (talk) 08:56, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am no fan of Donald Trump. Politically I am a never-Trumper, but the evident editorial bias in this article is precisely what gives credence to the fact that he is persecuted in the media among his supporters. There are essentially no positive comments in the article and many opinions are characterized as fact i.e. "Trump has been characterized as a racist..." 2601:680:C300:52E0:88B7:FCFA:295E:4286 (talk) 17:30, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
[first closure ended here]
Since you've been adding to this thread- I don't think "The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it." was ever intended to mean I shouldn't flesh out my lone reply in multiple copy edits after my closure. That would require me to get it right the first time (why?), which I very often fail to do. Questions like yours aren't entirely unimportant, but in my opinion they belong in a separate thread. For one thing, the OP's scope was far larger than the racism thing (it's pretty clear they meant "e.g.", not "i.e."). For another, your questions appear to challenge the policy itself, which doesn't belong on this page at all. You know where to take them. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:49, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Some ignoramus reverted two of my recent edits to this page. Here are the diffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&diff=prev&oldid=1245914253 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_Trump&diff=prev&oldid=1245915331 As to the first one, it is abundantly clear that the person who reverted my edits has never read the Trump v. Anderson opinion, because the corrections I made were 100% correct. The way the article described the Anderson ruling was incorrect and my edits were correct. And the second one corrects opinionated language. I am interested in fellow users' opinions on this. I am planning on putting the edits back in 24 hours. Have a nice day. :-) Praiawart (talk) 03:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
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Hi folks. User:Space4Time3Continuum2x removed my edits regarding Trump's financial sources on what I think are illegitimate grounds. I want to challenge this to keep them up. Here are my two revisions: [7] and [8]. Thanks. DivineReality (talk) 04:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
illegitimate grounds. What are your "legitimate grounds" for adding the content to Donald Trump#2016 presidential campaign and the infobox? As I said in the editsum reverting your bold edit to the 2016 campaign section, some of the info is about other time periods (inauguration, presidency, 2020 and 2024 campaigns) and some is not supported by the sources (the Adelsons donating more money than Clinton's entire campaign budget). Infobox: I think it's bloat. There is no definition for a "major donors" parameter. Doesn't mean we couldn't add it per "(({blank1))} (({data1))}", but we'd first have to identify the major donors, and what's the point? Mellon so far has donated more than the $100 million Miriam Adelson said she would put into her super PAC, the election is still seven weeks away, and "we're just getting started. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 14:18, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Donald trump has been targeted with a second assassination attempt on 9/15/2024, by 58 year old Ryan Routh. [1] GatlinGun511 (talk) 14:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
References
The FBI said it is investigating "what appears to be an attempted assassination"or, as WaPo put it, "man arrested on suspicion of possibly trying to assassinate". This is an encyclopedia, not a breaking news ticker. (Waiting for the
The last attempt by Thomas Matthew crooks made it in the article right away, why not this time?This is a classic and common fallacy. That things have been done wrong before is hardly justification to do them wrong again and again. It's also whataboutism.The earlier we publish, the more likely it is we will publish misleading or incorrect information. At first it was an AK-47; now it appears that it was an SKS, which is decidedly NOT an AK-47. And so on, and so on. We see this repeated over and over in current events where editors, completely devoid of patience and restraint, just can't wait to get stuff into articles. It's unrealistic and irresponsible to assume that readers will keep returning to see if early information has been corrected. Newspapers do not have the luxury of waiting, but we do.
There's no rush- Good, then you agree to wait. Thank you. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
shouldn't be censored- Huh? Who is suggesting we should censor this information? Please don't argue against arguments that have not been made; I think the word is "strawman". ―Mandruss ☎ 00:20, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
keep returning to see if early information has been corrected.I further gather that you think it's Wikipedia's mission to get information out there quickly, like a newspaper, not an encyclopedia. I must admit I'm surprised to see that from an editor with your extensive experience. But ok. You present a reasoned argument, so you don't have to stick around for it to count. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
i dont see why that article doesn't have to wait but this one does.Same fallacy as before. Delaying the creation of an article is a whole different animal from delaying new content in an existing article. Delaying new content is not what is meant by "censorship" by anybody's definition including Google's.
And how about we just mention the new assassination attempt briefly [...] and only mention info that's been 100% confirmed.- No particular objection except that there is no rush to publish; that's enough for me. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
In principle, all Wikipedia articles should contain up-to-date information. Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events.The policy does not say "Wait a week or maybe more". Cullen328 (talk) 01:06, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
"Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events."Not at issue here; nobody is opposing the stand-alone article.
"In principle, all Wikipedia articles should contain up-to-date information."Read "articles should not contain out-of-date information". Also not at issue here, since nobody is proposing that this article should contain out-of-date information.
The policy does not say "Wait a week or maybe more".True, and it also does not say anything like, "Wikipedia should publish current events information ASAP after it appears in news media."I think the misunderstanding is yours, but there's an easy way to test that. You can boldly update the policy to include something like, "Wikipedia should publish current events information ASAP after it appears in news media." If what you say is correct, that should be accepted as a useful policy clarification. If a policy is
widely misunderstood, shouldn't it be clarified to eliminate further misunderstandings? I'd lay wager it would be rejected as an unwanted policy change.I know you won't do that—why should you?—and none of what I say here will have any effect on the outcome; the urge to publish NOW is as strong as a mating instinct for too many editors. Still, I felt it needed to be said for the record. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
KENNEDY SHOT IN DALLAS
, the initial wire service lead, and even that said something about the nature of the attack. By omitting essential information, we would be leaving it to readers to fill in the blanks, and "no shot fired, Trump never even seen by the suspect" is not likely to be their first guess. We have to write as if this is the reader's only news source, else we could just avoid it entirely and let readers get their information from newspapers, TV, and social media. More reason to wait. ―Mandruss ☎ 01:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
References
a foiled assassination plot? Who are you, and what have you done with Zaathras? Any sources for this development, except for the usual conspiracy mongers? Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 12:14, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
this incident? Because that's what it is right now, "the incident" (NY Times - scroll down to fifth paragraph). WaPo:
federal law enforcement officials ... have said they are investigating the incident as a possible assassination attempt. ... Charging [the suspect] with an attempted assassination could be complicated by the fact that the suspect never fired his weapon on Sunday, making it even more critical for investigators to gather any available evidence about his intentions and state of mind.You can read the criminal complaint here. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 12:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Secret Service agent walking one hole ahead of Mr. Trump spotted the barrel of a rifle and opened fire(NY Times), and the suspect ran away. That doesn't say whether the suspect could even see Trump at the time. (It indicates, though, that the Secret Service was doing its job.) The FBI is investigating the incident as a possible attempted assassination, so, IMO, we can't say in Wikivoice that it was an apparent assassination attempt. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 15:11, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
a u.s. President almost diedare useful here. O3000, Ret. (talk) 17:44, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
what “appears to be an attempted assassination”. The acting director of the Secret Service said that the suspect (not "perpetrator") never had "line of sight" (scare quotes per the source) on Trump. Translated from officialese to English I think that means he never even saw him. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 17:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
Oppose This language. As to anything else, I do not sign blank cheques. Slatersteven (talk) 13:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
I added the American English tag to the talk page since it wasn't there before and the article follows American English spelling conventions. Was this a good addition? Unnecessary but should stay? Go? I'm trying to get a feel here for when articles should be tagged with language conventions, and I figured I'd ask on the talk page of a currently relevant person without such a tag. Sirocco745 (talk) 00:02, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
((Trumpian English))
template, at least. ―Mandruss ☎ 03:37, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
((Trumpian English))
article. We would be free of rules about grammatical construction, etc.The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This edit [10], regarding mischaracterizing Trump's rhetoric, appeared briefly in the article [11] and was reverted [12]. Here's what it looked like.
Trump joked that he would not be a dictator "except for day one", regarding closing the border and drilling for oil. Harris said, "Trump will be a dictator on day one."
Trump said that there would be an economic 'bloodbath' for the automotive industry if Biden won. Harris said, "Donald Trump, the candidate, has said, in this election, there will be a bloodbath if the outcome of this election is not to his liking."
Although the examples of mischaracterizing Trump's rhetoric appear to be correct, unfortunately the information comes from Fox News, which Wikipedia considers to be generally unreliable for political items [14]. I guess I'll wait to see if the above examples of mischaracterizing Trump's rhetoric appear in a source that is acceptable to Wikipedia. Thanks. Bob K31416 (talk) 10:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
Later in the rally, Trump warned it will be a “bloodbath for the country” if he is not elected. The comment came as he was promising to hike tariffs on foreign-made cars, and it was not clear exactly what Trump was referring to with his admonition. “Now we’re going to put a 100 percent tariff on every single car that comes across [the] line, and you’re not going to be able to sell those guys — if I get elected,” he said. “Now, if I don’t get elected, it’s going to be a bloodbath for the whole. That’s going to be the least of it. It’s going to be a bloodbath for the country.”I don't recall which opinion writer commented recently that RS are still "sanewashing" Trump's utterances. Does "bloodbath for the whole" and "bloodbath for the country" translate to "bloodbath for domestic automakers" or plausible deniability? Anyway, our text mentions neither the bloodbath nor the "dictator for day one", so refuting that alleged mischaracterization by his opponent(s) is too much detail. Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 14:32, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
WASHINGTON, March 22 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has made a series of inflammatory and racist statements on the U.S. campaign trail since declaring his candidacy in November 2022. In some cases, he has used violent imagery to lambaste immigrants and opponents. He has warned that the United States is on the verge of collapse, and his rhetoric has raised concerns that he might flout democratic norms by using the power of the state to target perceived enemies if he is elected.[17]– Muboshgu (talk) 15:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "On January 6, 2021, he urged his supporters to march to the U.S. Capitol, which many of them attacked." to "On January 6,2021, in his speech he said "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." Which lead to the attack on the Capitol. Many consider this statement to have incited an insurrection. While Trump and his supporters do not think that he was responsible for the attack on the Capitol." [1] Reese3521 (talk) 14:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
References
((Edit extended-protected))
template. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)I’m not a fan of Trump but this article is so biased. Can we add some positive things to the first portion of this article? At least mention forcing NATO countries into paying, positive economic growth, or fairly fast economic COVID recovery compared to other first world nations, or something neutral like tax cuts or recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. There are positives and negatives to even the worst presidents, but the first portion of this article reads like something straight out of Mother Jones. Don’t pretend like Trump hasn’t done like one or two good things. C9crab (talk) 06:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
While it is important to account for all significant viewpoints on any topic, Wikipedia policy does not state or imply that every minority view, fringe theory, or extraordinary claim needs to be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity.Balancing negatives with positives to make it less negative is FALSEBALANCE. We go by WP:DUE. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
Your argument above seems to misunderstand how balance on Wikipedia works - our job is to reflect the overall tone, focus, and weight of the highest-quality sources available. If those sources are overwhelmingly negative, then a balanced lead will also be overwhelmingly negative ...
Here's a positive that was rejected. Trump scores a long-awaited coronavirus win with vaccines on the way Regarding the question, "Can we add some positive things about his presidency to this article?" I guess the answer is no. Bob K31416 (talk) 02:26, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Need to add author. His new book "Save America" came out recently.
The lead "Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is an American politician, media personality, and businessman who served as the 45th president of the United States from 2017 to 2021." should be updated with author.
204.197.177.42 (talk) 00:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Anything added diff and aspires to be the 47th to the lead, I reverted per MOS:FIRST + Trump's current campaign mentioned in 5th paragraph, Anything reinserted here and here the slightly edited text He seeks to be the 47th.
Violation of 24-hour BRD? Or plausible deniability? MOS:OPEN doesn't say anything about "one-sentence paragraphs being disfavored". Space4Time3Continuum2x🖖 10:34, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
a major-party nominee’s ongoing candidacy for POTUS has always been mentioned in the opening paragraphis rather disingenuous, as Trump is first ex-president in nearly a century to run again after leaving the Office. For most challengers, e.g. Mitt Romney in 2012, Bob Dole in 1996, being the current candidate would be the most noteworthy aspect of the biography. For a person who has already been president and is known for numerous controversies and allegedly attempting to overthrow the government, being the current nominee does kinda sit a few rungs down the notability ladder. Zaathras (talk) 21:22, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Donald Trump "hail and hearty and well met" "Pennsylvania" rally
69.181.17.113 (talk) 07:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Should he be added to Category:American politicians convicted of crimes? It is my pleasure (talk) 16:57, 26 September 2024 (UTC)