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Can anyone find any Nintendo GameCube renders of Bowser to put on the article?

In Super Mario World 2, we really do learn that he first encountered Mario as a baby. i'm putting that back in. Meelar 18:50, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Nonsense. Mario is a plumber from Brooklyn who had been working in the sewers prior to actually being orientated with the Mushroom and Koopa kingdoms. That block of info your adding has just as much in my mind as if to add to Adolf Hitler, "He was infamous for his evil acts of slaughter in the Holocaust." And it looks like you're making some grammatical errors, that is, no caps on your second sentence, not to insult you. --Marcus2

No problem, I usually catch those. Anyway, I maintain that Nintendo's promotional material clearly links the two Marios, so we should include it. Meelar 21:27, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Promotional material is not to be relied upon. It may be misleading or contradictory. Remember the expression, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. --Marcus2

I'd like to repeat my request here--find one source that says Mario and Luigi didn't meet Bowser in Super Mario World 2 (not counting fan fiction). If you can't, the info should stay. Meelar 21:44, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

See my response to this on your talk page. This is not a biography or a science project. --Marcus2

This may not be a biography or science project, but it is an encyclopedia article. As such, it must contain, accurate, verifiable information, and this information should not be removed without reason. Unless you can provide such reason, from credible source material, the information will remain. Meelar 05:51, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Having played and completed Super Mario World 2, as well as many of the other Mario games, I side with Meelar. I also think Marcus2 should follow his own advice, because I think the idea Mario is from Brooklyn comes mostly from promotional material. I'm not sure if Shigeru Miyamoto, for all intents and purposes the creator of Mario and writer of his history, ever stated that Mario is from Brooklyn, though he has stated he's a plumber (and it's implied Mario was originally a carpenter in Donkey Kong). It's possible that Miyamoto has said this but if so, I'd like to see a source. --Furrykef 19:31, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Marcus2: If you continue this edit war, I may suggest that this topic be locked. All nintendo games are cannon, even if they contradict. Rather than removing content, perhaps just extend to article to say that the SMW:2 storyline conflicts with the other possible story. Tacvek 02:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes. The correct procedure in cases of discrepencies in story lines are to document the discrepencies in good NPOV fashion. Sherlock Holmes fandom has been doing this for years. Same with comic book fandom for retcons in continuity. Also Edgar Rice Burroughs fandom. For the comic book character Archie there are at least two separate stories of how he first met Veronica, both of them contradicted by the L'il Archie series about Archie and the gang as very young children.

Document. Don't argue about which is right.

If promotional material says something, then cite the exact promotional material (which will encourage other readers to cite other promotional material confirming it or to document other statements in contradiction).

If you can't cite it, don't spread it. jallan 20:00, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Why is this article at the disambiguating link Bowser (Nintendo character) instead of Bowser which is a redirect? Until someone creates Bowser (the guy from Sha-na-na) I think we're fine at the unambig link. If no one has any objections, we should delete the Bowser redirect, and move this article there. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:39, Jun 17, 2004 (UTC)

Somewhere along the line the two names merged, and he is now known in America as being Bowser Koopa, with "Koopa" as his, and his children's last name.

I haven't seen Bowser ever referred to as "Bowser Koopa" in official materials, although admittedly the most recent Mario game I've played is Super Mario 64. Can anybody provide an example? --Furrykef 19:39, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I doubt that there is any referrence, However that said i know that it must be either Bowser Koopa, or Koopa Bowser, and the first makes more sense. Tacvek 02:56, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I still don't buy the idea that his name is "Bowser Koopa". As far as I know, in Japan it has always been "King Koopa", and in the United States, it was "Bowser, King of the Koopas" in canonical sources (the games), and "King Koopa" in some non-canonical sources (the cartoons). I've never seen the form "King Bowser Koopa" even in such non-canonical sources. - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:09, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, I agree with you that you don't usually see it written that way in video games, but if the Koopa Kids are any indication, it's his name nonetheless. They all have names like "Wendy O. Koopa" and so on, so presumably it's a clan and a surname. Just as if my name were John Doe, you could call me (somewhat archaically) John, King of the Does, or Leader of the Does, or some such. Using this example, the names King John and King Doe both work, as well. Andre (talk) 22:17, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

Things get difficult along this path. In the original Japanese, he is known as Koopa (クッパ, kuppa). In the original SMB, he was Great Devil Koopa (大魔王クッパ, dai maō kuppa)! (I'm not sure at the moment if he's even been "King Koopa" before and not just "king of the Koopa.") "Bowser" is something the folks here at Nintendo of America (NoA) created, to my chagrin (though I admit, it fits well). Likewise, in Japan, the Koopalings' don't have Koopa as their surname; they're just Larry, Morton, Wendy O., etc. Thus, I'm against the "King Bowser Koopa," especially since it's an inference (though admittedly a valid one). Either we should stick to the Japanese info and mention the American info (my choice since the Japanese info comes from Nintendo itself and Miyamoto himself); stick to the American info and mention the Japanese info (which I'm not wont to do); or create an amalgamation of the two, which would likely be a bit confusing. I think we should do "King Koopa," "Koopa," and "Bowser" and not "King Bowser" (unless supported) or "(King) Bowser Koopa." (Not to mention that "Bowser Koopa" sounds pretty lame ...) -- J44xm 03:38, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Well your argument against "(King) Bowser Koopa" is something I'll have to think about. However, what's wrong with "King Bowser"? There's a screenshot from SMRPG saying that further down on the page. Andre (talk) 21:51, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

You're quite right about that, so "King Bowser" is in. ^_^ (Sorry for the delay in replying.) -- J44xm 12:59, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Dear Goddess that's a lot of quotes. I thiiiink we should move them to WikiQuotes or just get rid of them. Also: Are they all from the TV show? Nifboy 04:26, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Apparently. A move to wikiquotes would be ok with me. Andre (talk) 02:07, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the quotation section is overpowering. Joyous 04:05, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

Most of them. Some of them, though, are from the games and comics. User:Nintendo Maximus

Bowser (Nintendo) → Bowser - A majority of the links point here. Note that the dis-ambiguation page itself can be named Bowser (disambiguation) and none of the other pages the dis-ambiguation page links to will change their titles. Georgia guy 02:11, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

• Oppose Bowser is a disambig page with several other meanings that could just as easly make a better case for that name. Since Bowser is so common, it should be the disambig page. We have no way of knowing how many people type in Bowser and actually go to the other pages. The fact that some users put in a bad link should not be a reason to remove a disambg page or to move it. Also note that more then 50% of the redirects are from 5 redirects that have bad links. Those will be fixed shortly. Vegaswikian 07:30, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose Fix links as necessary, I don't see any case this is the overwhelmingly most common sense of the unqualified word. Alai 03:52, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Template:Notmoved violet/riga (t) 10:57, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Since I visited this page more recently than the closed debate, I'm a bit miffed. I would have supported the above. See the example set at Mario where the unambiguated article clearly refers to what some would otherwise title "Mario_(Nintendo)"... I think, that since the mutual archnemeses Mario and Bowser are so inexorably linked, they should probably follow the same article-naming pattern.--MDC 07:53, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

• A stronger point too: look at Mario (disambiguation) and Bowser (disambiguation) ... and you will find there are several times more name-uses of "Mario" than "Bowser"... and yet the Nintendo character Mario is an ad hoc favorite and Bowser is not?? weird. --MDC 07:53, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

• I move to reopen the debate.--MDC 07:53, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

I suggest we change the name to King Bowser. We have Princess Peach, so we might as well have King Bowser. --A Link to the Past 00:49, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support, I prefer King Bowser to a title with parens. Andre (talk) 01:47, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. I'm pretty sure I've never heard him referred to as "King Bowser". They haven't used that terminology in any of the recent Mario games, either. Bowser (Nintendo) is fine. -Doozer (Talk) 00:22, 19 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Strongly oppose There seems to be no attempt to argue this is the most common name for this character, as per the naming conventions, If this is an attempt to re-open the "get rid if the disambig" debate, above, then it's dishearteningly soon. Alai 00:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • It has nothing to do with the disambig debate. Kammy Koopa calls Bowser King Bowser. So, what you're saying is that the fact that his title as a King being fact can't compete with him not being called it everytime someone refers to him? He is a King. There is no reason to not refer to him as King Bowser when it's undeniable fact that his title is King. There's no difference between his situation and the situation of Princess Peach; if you are arguing that this is his name or whatever, what's that then? Why not call her Peach? King Arthur's article is King Arthur, not Arthur (Britain). King Bowser is a better term than Bowser (Nintendo), because it's not only 100% true, but it's also a better name. No one will be confused, some people would type in King Bowser occasionally (no one would do it now without previously knowing it). Absolutely no reason to not change it. Can you actually make a feasable argument? I don't mean to be rash about this, so I'll be a little less serious... Sir, your arguments are bunk. BUNK, I say!--A Link to the Past 09:51, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
    • Can you actually cite a reason to make such a move, other than the above "no reason not to!" assertions? And here's a reason not to: the "most common name" rule, as I said before. "King Arthur" is clearly the most common reference to "King Arthur", so the comparison isn't at all compelling. Alai 23:36, 22 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • It's his official title. Has anyone ever referred to him as Bowser (Nintendo)?--A Link to the Past 03:24, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
        • That's not WP policy, though, which (as I keep saying) is to use most common names. Which in this case would be to "Bowser". From your rhetorical question I gather you indeed are quibbling with the "(Nintendo)" disambiguation, then? Alai 03:44, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • The policy is foolish. King Bowser isn't called King Bowser for the reason that he's not Mario's King. If a character is more commonly referred to with a nickname than his actual name, should it be his Wiki name? So, you're saying that his official title, his superior name, is not the one appropriate for Wikipedia because he's more often referred to as Bowser? And Nintendo can't be called Nintendo Corporate Ltd, because it includes Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe, IIRC. There is no reason to keep it as Bowser (Nintendo). King Bowser is his official title, established by Nintendo of America. Okay? Okay. Okay, wow, characters who aren't under the rule of Bowser don't call him King Bowser, while his minions and Nintendo call him. No one really calls Henry VIII King Henry VIII, because he's not a likable King. Arthur is. King Bowser isn't.--A Link to the Past 05:57, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
            • I want to ask why, using that logic, we shouldn't rename the Mario article to his full name, Mario Mario. Nifboy 07:37, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
              • Here's a game - show a canon use of Mario Mario. Excluding Dr. Mario, that's just a title given to him for the sake of the game. Also, King Bowser is NOT rarely used. Unless you don't count Paper Mario, TTYD and Mario & Luigi as games. Lucas doesn't factor in the Star Wars Christmas Special into the series, and Miyamoto doesn't factor in the Super Mario Bros. Movie into his series. -- A Link to the Past 08:30, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. "King" title is rarely used and even more rarely used before "Bowser" (Mario RPG uses "King Koopa" and refers to him as Bowser). If the parenthesis bother you so much, use his full name, "Bowser Koopa," instead. Nifboy 07:53, 23 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose absolutely. Bowser, and only Bowser. No Koopa, no King, no nothing except (Nintendo) if necessary, and that's a different argument. No King. --Golbez 06:08, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
• Strongly Oppose. The only reason Mario's girlfriend Peach is at Princess Peach is because Peach infinitely more often refers to the fruit. I am sure many Nintendo gamers (such as my dad, who has only played the Mario Kart series) are not aware that Bowser proclaims himself king of anything. I, however, have played various Mario titles since the early 90's. When talking about the games, I always referred to (and still do refer to) Princess Peach simply as "The Princess," because before playing Mario Kart I was unaware that she was named Peach. --MDC 06:39, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
  • On a side note, I think Bowser is at least as worthy of One-name entity status as Mario, if not more so. Note the high number of other people named "Mario" and the low number of others named "Bowser"! --MDC 06:39, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
    • I don't see why people are horrified at using an official, superior alternative as opposed to one part of his name and acknowledging what game he's in. -- A Link to the Past 05:16, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
      • I must call BS on the use of "superior" as an adjective describing the proposed change; at least five people so far disagree with that. As for "official," I still maintain "Koopa" (which is equally "official") is more common than "King" in reference to Bowser. Nifboy 05:41, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
        • King Bowser was used in TTYD, M&L and PM. TTYD came out after SMB. How exactly is Koopa more common? Bowser is constantly referred to as King. -- A Link to the Past 16:31, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Template:Notmoved Alai 00:32, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This name change does not seem to have been posted to requested moves, and hence has just rumbled on and on, without ever being formally closed (and not moved). And prior to this month-long move discussion, there was a move request, which also did not reach a consensus. Can we let this alone for a while? Alai 16:56, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• This is a much more reasonable move. People refused to do the other move because it would ruin the disambiguation page, while people refuse to do this because it's

A. Not official (false)

B. Never used (false)

C. Dumb to use titles (use Peach (Nintendo) if you think Bowser (Nintendo) is a appropriate)

I guess I could leave it alone. But the naysayers are being stubborn; no one is harmed by this - the title is more official than Bowser (Nintendo). -- A Link to the Past 17:16, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

What about because: it was voted against, long since (true), and it's against the naming conventions policy (true)? Isn't persisting in debating the point further in the face of this somewhat, well, "stubborn"? Alai 22:16, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Well, it does make sense that because it's used less than Bowser, it WOULD be against naming conventions. But has anyone ever called him Bowser (Nintendo)? What are you saying? Does it cause problems? Nope. Does the quality of the name increase? Yup. Are we using an official, canon, 100% approved by every division of Nintendo? Yup. Is it still used? Yup. -- A Link to the Past 22:46, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

My King Bowser move failed, but if this does, humanity phales. *chortle* Anyway, considering the fact that Bowser is a main character in one of the most popular characters in the Mario series, the most popular video game ever made, I would go on a limb and say that this character is far more well-known than a Canadian politician, a common name for pets and the guy from Sha Na Na Na. - A Link to the Past (talk) 00:26, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

1. A Link to the Past (talk) 00:26, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
2. After discussing the situation with this article with A Link to the Past, I think that the current disambiguation page at Bowser should be moved and replaced by the current Bowser (Nintendo) article. We do not have any other full-length article on any "Bowser" topic, and the vast majority of incoming links to "Bowser" as of this writing are for the Nintendo character. - RedWordSmith 01:01, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
3. Agree, I don't think anyone typing "Bowser" in the search bar would be looking for any of the other things mentioned on the disambig page.Amren ^(talk) 01:02, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
4. I still can't figure out why this was disambiguated in the first place. Nifboy 01:42, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
5. Sounds alright to me. Andre (talk) 03:44, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
6. --Apostrophe 03:54, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
7. Support. I agree 100% with RedWordSmith. ~~~~ 04:58, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
8. Support. After discussing this with A Link to the Past I agree that it would be best to move the pages. Jtkiefer ^{T | @ | C} ----- 05:53, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

1. A bowser is a petrol pump, in Australian English, for one. Dysprosia 05:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

   I added that to the main Bowser page. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 06:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

1. Phales more like Fails it --SPUI (talk) 00:31, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
2. So, you want to move Bowser to Bowser (disambiguation) and move this page to Bowser? If so, and if the others have no problem with it, I can make the move. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:30, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]