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Case clerk: Callanecc (Talk) Drafting arbitrators: SilkTork (Talk) and Newyorkbrad (Talk)from Aug 2013 AGK (Talk) & NuclearWarfare (Talk)
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Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.
While I'm not an involved party here, I urge the Commitee to decline this case because it is premature; the community has not exhausted its ability to resolve issues with these users. — C M B J 06:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I am also not a party to this matter, as I have never edited the article, though I had a number of comments to make at what is now the ANI sub-page thread. One of those statements was to the effect that I did not think the time was ripe to take this matter here. For clarity, I want to make it clear that I now agree with the filing administrator's decision to request this case be taken up by ArbCom. I urge you to take on this issue, as in my view it is of the utmost importance.
In contrast to the opinion put forward by CMBJ, I believe this filing is not premature, as the recent discussion on ANI (linked above) has shown that the community is unable (and/or unwilling) to resolve conduct (and content) disputes and to enforce the article probation that has been in place since late 2010.[1] As incredible as it sounds, there is a consensus among the involved parties that article improvement cannot occur (and has failed to occur for several years) and that efforts to work things out on the talk page have stalled. If this isn't a case for arbcom, I don't know what is. Viriditas (talk) 09:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Additional comment: we are in desperate need of prophylactic measures. It may be wise to widen the scope of this request to encompass all U.S. politics articles as it has come to my attention that certain editors involved in this topic area may be using this incident (and the lack of any continuing enforcement in this area) as a litmus test for what they can get away with in the coming days. For example, just after the ANI report was filed and this arbcom request was made, User:The Devil's Advocate and User:Casprings began disrupting Binders full of women with time wasting snow keep AfD noms and out-of-order merges against consensus. I see this continuing problem with political articles connected to previous issues with WikiProject Conservatism and Barack Obama, and more recently with John Kerry and the current Tea Party movement. I hope that arbcom can draw a line in the sand and put a stop to this as the political rhetoric heats up and the POV warriors begin swarming at the gates to do battle. Viriditas (talk) 07:53, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Additional disruption: now occurring at New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case by User:Little green rosetta and User:RightCowLeftCoast after RightCowLeftCoast canvassed WikiProject Conservatism for backup support. Note how the same editors find their way into the same conflicts over U.S. politics, religion, and homosexuality. Viriditas (talk) 02:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Hasty filing; ANI only started 920 pm Saturday, ArbCom opened 1230 am Monday? Recommend declining case per further community input. NE Ent 10:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
@Risker Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive219#Sanctions_on_Tea_Party_movement NE Ent 12:46, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
By changing horses we've arrived at a DR Mexican standoff; community interest in resolving the issue without AC, as indicated the variety of editors participating in the ANI subpage has waned; the committee tally thus far is all in the other category.
I've found two recent ANI threads that were subpaged in addition to TPM:
See also a recent USPLACE discussion than ran 10 days and resulted in an "artistic" close in which the sanctioned editor gave the closing admin a barnstar and the OP described it as "solomic"
My understanding, after discussion with KC, is that the perceived benefit of AC/DS vs community sanction is that she perceives the editing norms of AE preferrable to that of AN. I submit that is a reason to from consensus to reform AN, or perhaps merge AC/DS into a Wikipedia:sanction enforcement board, similar to the way editing restrictions logs both AC and community sanctions, not kick issues to arbcom.
The remit of the committee is serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. (emphasis mine), not become a "discretionary sanctions, ban, ban, topic ban, topic ban, admonishment" assembly line. We all reap what we sow; while DS'ing Tea Party, whether by case or motion, is a reasonable to solution to the specific issue at hand, it will encourage the community to continue to prematurely file cases before exhausting other avenues. The current "wait and see" responses thus far are inadequate to compel community activity; I urge ya'll to explicitly decline the case. If, after a week or two, the community is still unable to arrive at a solution a case could be opened then. NE Ent 14:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Article probation does not seem to be working here, judging from the hostile reaction to KillerChihuahua. To an uninvolved observer the responses to her posting on the talk page of TPM seem quite disproportionate. Perhaps there are underlying issues of WP:OWN which might be just one symptom of a toxic editing atmosphere. Article probation has worked on Men's rights movement, but in that case a fair number of neutral observers, including administrators, keep matters in check; that article was initially targeted by activists/advocates on off-wiki sites. Perhaps, like Mass killings under communist regimes, this article (or related articles) could benefit from discretionary sanctions. The discussions at WP:ANI regarding the TPM article have been chaotic, with various attempts to prevent any kind of administrative action related to article probation. When neutral administrators are attacked like that, something is wrong. Without naming names, it does look like just a few individuals, several of whom have yet to comment. Mathsci (talk) 10:55, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
If, as NuclearWarfare suggests, this could possibly be resolved by a motion imposing discretionary sanctions on "TPM articles," could the underlying principles just be taken to be those for the "Obama articles" here? (4 current arbitrators were active on that case.) Admins at WP:AE sometimes find it useful to have a set of principles available when a report is made. Mathsci (talk) 11:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Let's give a week to the community to deal with that, then, if no clear outcome is possible, restart this one. Cavarrone (talk) 12:09, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Reject speedily. ASAP. Stat. Post haste. Read the weird AN/I postings and note the desire of some to shout "Off With Their Heads!" over what is obviously a content dispute which is never something ArbCom deals with or ought to deal with. A quick rejection is in fact a message - that using silly proposals is not something the committee thinks is a valid basis for a real case. I concur with Arthur Rubin here. Collect (talk) 12:18, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
@Goethean: Your first wording appeared far more accurate with regard to your edits and intent. Cheers. Collect (talk) 17:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
@Gamaliel: I welcome anyone actually reading my edits and talk page comments. Your characterization of them is absurd from any neutral perspective. For example: [2] has me stating that a journal whose express interest is to oppose the tobacco industry (It is important for tobacco control advocates in the USA and internationally, to anticipate and counter Tea Party opposition to tobacco control policies and ensure that policymakers, the media and the public understand the longstanding connection between the tobacco industry, the Tea Party and its associated organisations. seems an eensy indication that the journal might lack objectivity, and a clear claim of "guilt by association" in the first place), is not necessarily a reliable source connecting all sorts of groups by association to the "tobacco industry." That is a legitimate issue for discussion, but to assert own advocacy of some of the positions shared by the most flagrant offenders is sufficiently far afield as to warrant inquiry of such a poster. And I am proud to assert that following policies and guidelines is a "meaningless platitude" to you. I consider such a post, in fact, to be uncollegial and contrary to any rational basis for reaching consensus if one can simply assert "the other editor should be banned because he disagrees on content." Cheers -- but your own words show where the problem lies. Collect (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
@Gamaliel: I read your post and stand by my own post. I have now been online for over three decades, and please accept my assurance that (having read well over five million messages, and reviewed over 50,000 image files) I have some minimal experince in this field. Draconian solutions are exceedingly rarely beneficial. That you find this a "platitude" is unfortunate. I think mandatory 20 year sentences for possession of a small amount of LSD is absurd. I think $500 parking tickets which destroy poor people economically are absurd. All "platitudes". We have intersected on about 2% of the articles I have edited. I recollect no specific editing disagreement with you which would reasonably result in your posts. Feel free to post diffs on my talk page of edits which you find egregious. Cheers.Collect (talk) 21:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I've posted this link to a thread from the TPM Talk page on ANI page as I think it encapsulates--if not in a dramatic manner--a sort of collaborative obstructionism in which a group of editors would seem to be engaged. The scope would seem to be somewhat expansive in light of the response the case garnered in such a short period, so maybe it is too cumbersome for ANI. At any rate, the above statement by North8000 should be evaluated against this thread, which demonstrates the sort of interaction and the respective dispositions of three of the above-listed involved editors as well as Xenophrenic [3].--Ubikwit (talk) 14:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
This issue probably doesn't need a case to decide. If my analysis is correct, there is in fact only one question that ArbCom needs to decide: "Has KillerChihuahua been acting as an uninvolved admin in a dispute over a page subject to probation?"
I've looked at the pages referred to above and I am convinced that she has. If ArbCom agrees with me on that, then it simply needs to state that it will support KC (and any other uninvolved admin) in discharging that role - and perhaps admonish those misguided individuals who have attempted to pervert those actions. Anything less will create a chilling effect on admins who voluntarily put themselves through stress and hassle purely to keep Wikipedia running. Is it any wonder that the pool of active admins willing to take on such jobs is continually shrinking? --RexxS (talk) 18:28, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The hysterical overreaction to KillerChihuahua's very mild attempts at rule enforcement and community involvement demonstrate quite clearly that some sort of intervention is needed at this article. Article ownership and incivility, not to mention outright hostility, are rampant. Someone, the community, arbcom, whoever, needs to step in to curb the battleground mentality of political-minded editors, some of whom have been unchecked for years. To those who are disputing the need for action (most loudly perhaps Collect, who neglects to mention his own editing on that article, his own advocacy of some of the positions shared by the most flagrant offenders, and the fact that he's well known on various noticeboards for advocating against any suggestion of community or administrative action in pretty much any case), they should be required to specifically lay out what they would do instead, besides absolutely nothing or reciting meaningless platitudes. A wide topic ban on political articles would be an effective way to eliminate this battleground mentality. Those editors could contribute to Wikipedia in less contentious ways besides editing political articles, and if they were single issue accounts dedicated to only politics, then they should be banned anyway, and Wikipedia has lost nothing and gained much. Gamaliel (talk) 18:41, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
@Collect You claim my position is "the other editor should be banned because he disagrees on content", but I obviously said no such thing, and if you had any interest in collegiality as you claim to have, you would withdraw such a ridiculous claim. I simply want to enforce existing rules regarding civility, battleground behavior, etc. You claim to be in favor of "following policies and guidelines" but you have consistently advocated against even the most minor enforcement actions in regards to those policies. Gamaliel (talk) 21:22, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I have been involved with some of the wrangling over U.S. politics articles over the past months, particularly during the election season, and do not see any benefit to the project in accepting a case on the Tea Party Movement at this point in time. The ANI filing by KC is a sterling example of everything wrong with that noticeboard or, more accuraely, everything wrong with how certain editors use it. People were voting for broad topic bans on U.S. politics articles without any meaningful inquiry into the topic area or the editors in question. Basically it was, and is, little more than an emotionally-driven lynching by editors who are mostly biased in one respect or another. I think an arbitration case will find plenty of misconduct on all sides, quite probably also finding fault with KC's conduct, and that we will have a lot of restrictions and sanctions passed on a whole lot of editors from all sides during the case or in the aftermath should discretionary sanctions be imposed on "edits relating to the Tea Party Movement broadly construed" as is a likely outcome. However, the effect will only be a stifling of activity on this topic and U.S. politics in general for as long as the Tea Party remains a relevant movement.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:09, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Accept the case, and then suspend it pending mediation. The mediation will give the involved editors a last chance to argue on the basis of the content, so there is then a big incentive to take that opportunity. If that fails, the ArbCom case can go ahead but then the primary focus will be the conduct of the editors. Count Iblis (talk) 11:59, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
KillerChihuahua, the personal attacks must ultimately originate from some content dispute. If the problems between some editors are now unrelated to content issues, then if they are sent to mediation where they have to address content, that may well all by itself resolve the problem without the mediators having to do much, apart from making sure the editors are focussed on editing the content and not fighting out other disputes. This is similar to how the mere presense of a teacher in class can calm down the students and make sure they are focussed on the lessons and not on other things.
An import issue here is that the teacher has authority (disciplinary measures can be taken against students, and they can end up failing exams), while here on Wikipedia, the authority of Admins can be questioned and appealed. If ArbCom were to send the case to mediation, with the understanding that an ArbCom case will start if the mediation isn't successful, the editors know that they have to drop their content unrelated disputes or else face sanctions later. Of course the editors can do that right now too, but I'm of the opinion that you have to give the editors a chance to show how their present disputes are related to content issues and argue on the basis of that. Count Iblis (talk) 12:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
According to this thread at KillerChihuahua's talk page, she may currently be unable to participate in this debate. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
T. Canen's comments below are to my eyes more than a bit relevant here. I also think, as has been said below, that there is a real chance that the final decision could almost be written before the case is presented. But, as someone who occasionally is a bit involved at AE, and as I said before in the most recent Falun Gong arbitration, there are times when I believe that it is in the community's interest to have individuals who have been elected by the community based on their judgment and knowledge of the subject to decide matters, rather than having something addressed by the admins at AE, who were generally not made admins specifically for their ability to resolve arbitration matters. By saying this I am in no way saying that the admins who offer more frequent input at AE are in any way not qualified to do so, and I do not at all believe that they aren't qualified to do so - some of them are in fact individuals who I hold in very high regard, and at least one is someone I myself asked to run for ArbCom before the last election. But this does not strike me as being necessarily an incident in which the rulings of the basically self-appointed AE editors would be preferable to the opinions of the elected arbitrators. John Carter (talk) 00:43, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Like John Carter above, as an admin active at AE, I'm responding to the discussion among arbitrators about the usefulness of discretionary sanctions. In my experience, AE works well for some 90% of the cases, in which the facts are relatively simple and clear-cut, and which involve one or two editors. We do have problems dealing adequately with cases that involve many editors, or long-term patterns of difficult-to-pin-down misconduct (such as tendentious editing), or the social dynamics among long-term contributors. This may be both because of the amount of evidence and analysis such cases require, which is often more than individual volunteers are willing to make time for. Also, decisions in such relatively complicated cases are of necessity more a matter of judgment and therefore more open to criticism. That in and of itself is of course not a problem, but in my experience it can range up to very violent reprobations, accusations of harrassment, requests for desysop, etc. from the affected users or their friends. It is understandable that relatively few admins want to expose themselves to this repeatedly in what is after all their hobby, not their job.
It is in this sense that I agree with T. Canens that AE is less well-equipped than ArbCom to deal with certain cases. It's not really a matter of time – AE threads can in theory last as long as they need to – or of restrictions, because there are few explicit restrictions on discretionary sanctions. It's that AE administrators, as unelected individual functionaries, lack the institutional resources of ArbCom, i.e., a relatively large pool of clerks and arbitrators who have committed themselves to the job, as well as the Committee's institutional protections – collective rather than individual responsibility for decisions, an electoral mandate, a fixed term of service and being the authority of last resort. That is what makes ArbCom more suited than AE to dealing with cases involving many people, complicated facts and/or complicated social dynamics.
That's not to say that the typical outcome of ArbCom cases, as outlined by NuclearWarfare – "discretionary sanctions, ban, ban, topic ban, topic ban, admonishment" – is a bad thing. It's probably the best thing ArbCom can do in many situations (minus the admonishments, which I think are pointless and patronizing). What the Committee should consider, however, is developing procedures for cases of intermediate difficulty that are a bit too much for AE to handle effectively, but which are not necessarily worth the attention of the full Committee. As I've previously suggested, one way to do this could be to institute subcommittees of three or five arbitrators to which enforcement requests could be referred by AE administrators. Sandstein 13:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a similar problem in the single-payer healthcare article with many of the same editors listed here (North8000, Arzel etc.). KC referred me to here although I'm not sure if the original scope of US Politics still applies. From what I can tell many of the editors (North8000 in particular) often engage in WP:Battleground tactics (as recently as today). One of the only remedies I can see are temporary topic bans as suggested in the Tea Party Movement AN/I but I'll hold off on voting for that until a decision to accept or deny the dispute is reached here. CartoonDiablo (talk) 19:49, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I am very disappointed by AGK's statement. If you run for Arbitration Committee it is your job to hear intractable disputes, to review the evidence and to propose constructive solutions. It is not your job to shoot from the hip before hearing all the evidence, state a conclusion, and declare who should be banned before the case starts. Now AGK will have to recuse himself because he's obviously not ready to hear the case with an open mind. Jehochman Talk 13:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
@ Bishonen -- "Tea Party, broadly construed" would cover the topics you've mentioned. As in, don't use Wikipedia as a platform for political advocacy. Jehochman Talk 13:51, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I am likewise disappointed by AGK's statement, as it was right from the beginning framed as a multi-party dispute, not a two-party dispute. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:51, 2 March 2013 (UTC) Struck, comment referred to earlier version of statement. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
Judging on the sheer size of this mess and the fact that the community is unable to resolve the dispute, ArbCom has little choice but to accept the case. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 04:15, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
I see the case is going to be accepted. KC originally listed it as "Tea Party movement / US politics", and Roger Davies shortened the name to "Tea Party movement" (with the comment that he was shortening "for now"). Both KC and CartoonDiablo have recently expressed uncertainty as to whether the originally proposed scope, US Politics, will apply when the case goes live.[4][5] Perhaps the committee hasn't made up its collective mind on that score yet. I urge you to in fact try to do something about ongoing POV disruption at the entire "US politics" spectrum and to invite evidence on articles like Gun control and Single-payer healthcare. Or, as second best, to at least consider a wider topic ban for North8000 and probably one or two others than merely from specifically Tea Party-related pages. Bishonen | talk 15:48, 4 March 2013 (UTC).
I would urge ArbCom to accept this. I have no interest in American politics but do have a number of high-profile homosexuality-related pages on my watchlist (as they are magnets for vandals and nutcases) and see a number of problematic editors' names re-occurring here. The link to WikiProject Conservatism probably needs investigation here. Black Kite (talk) 15:57, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
I have not edited either the article or talk page, but commented on the thread at RS/N. I was surprised to see how many users coming from the Tea Party talk page had a clear battleground mentality, and immediately began making personal attacks. A quick glance at the TP talk page shows there is clearly a toxic culture there, and it appears other dispute resolution options have not been successful. a13ean (talk) 21:29, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Having done some time a few years ago babysitting the Sarah Palin article, I strongly suggest that the committee set up a rotation for admins watching over this article and the myriad related articles that are doubtless affected by the same issues involving the same warring parties. Ask for volunteers, vet them, and then set it up so none of them are stuck doing this for more than a month or so at a stretch. Fringy US politics will cause faster burnout than almost any other topic. --SB_Johnny | talk✌ 00:20, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I hope arbcom leaves their politics at the door on this and limit their sanctions (if any) solely to user conduct. A broad, this is a political article under discretionary sanctions boilerplate after this is over will only set up a lot of drama for the future.--MONGO 18:49, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
This is just entrenched editors that believe their version is neutral and any deviations is biased. A simple review of wording of talk page subjects confirms this. I would caution that Wikipedia demographics don't match U.S. voting demographics so in-built perceptions by the community will not be perceived as neutral. Trying to resolve this as a content dispute will devolve into the type of arguments regarding the Iraq War ("Liberation" or "Occupation"?). If arbcom does take it, I would hope they choose to address sources for claim (i.e. what is "reliable" and "neutral") but even that would be difficult (i.e. is Al Hunt an award winning reliable source or a commentating editor formerly on the left side of the Evans and Novak roundtable?). Unfortunately I don't see a way to address these issues as the biases of the editor come into play. Bottom line is that people interested enough to edit these articles already have an agenda. A nice thing to have might be a WP:BLP-like policy for current events and surrounding articles. Unsourced or poorly sourced negative information is simply removed from these articles. Make organization objectives and ideology similar to LGBT BLP articles and only include self-identified descriptions. Anything outside of that would require exceptional sources. --DHeyward (talk) 06:48, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Initiated by Xenophrenic (talk) at 21:27, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
I am presently "topic-banned from all pages relating to the Tea Party movement, broadly construed." I have recently edited the James O'Keefe biography article, which I obviously do not see as falling under this restriction since O'Keefe has no relation to the Tea Party. My edits were also wholly unrelated to the Tea Party. However, another editor raised the question on the O'Keefe talk page which has prompted me to cease editing that article until I obtain clarification here. Please note: I see the phrase "Tea Party" does briefly appear elsewhere in the O'Keefe article, and I have no desire to circumvent the ArbCom case restrictions even inadvertantly, so I have to ask...
This is where the "broadly construed" phrasing can get tricky. O'Keefe may not be "officially" assosciated with the Tea Party, but his mentor was Andrew Breitbart and his activities are pretty clearly aligned with the goals and values of the Tea Party. If there is any doubt, you should probably just stay away. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:52, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
As the "other editor" in question, this is actually good guidance for those of us on the periphery. In this case, I raised the question not to get anyone in trouble (and I would hope that any admin/arb reading this would see it for what it is and not an attempt by Xenophrenic to skirt the boundaries of the ArbCom case), but because of this specific section in the article, which is about a video release noteworthy because of the NPR associate's comments on the Tea Party movement.
Looking back at the original case, it appears that ArbCom chose not to address the question of what "broadly construed" means. For the sake of reducing inter-editorial strife, I'm hoping some sort of guidance can come of this clarification request.
"Tea Party" is often used in daily conversation in America imprecisely and usually pejoratively to indicate anyone sufficiently the right of American politics. The fairest definition of the topic of "Tea Party movement" however should refer to organizations, voters, and activists self-identifying as themselves members of the Tea Party or Tea Party organizations, self identifying as allies of the same, or politicians whose support derives from those efforts. James O'Keefe would seem to not qualify on that end, except that one of his major claims to fame is a video he released of an NPR executive speaking candidly about the Tea Party. Since the topic ban is on "all pages relating to the Tea Party movement, broadly construed" (emphasis added), the presence of the topic as a component of the article on James O'Keefe, activist, renders the Wikipedia-en page James O'Keefe under the topic ban. This is why topic bans are best written as editing subject bans and not page bans. I suggest that the Committee clarify or amend the wording of the topic ban to apply to edits concerning the Tea Party movement, broadly construed, and that the edits in question be allowed, although I think Xenophrenic is better advised to steer clear because of the specific history of O'Keefe's activism --Tznkai (talk) 07:29, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
flies squarely in the face of what "broadly construed" clearly means. Although, obviously, that phrase is (deliberately) imprecise, any clarification of its meaning to come from the committee must cast the widest possible net, and not be hamstrung by restrictive definitions such as Tznkai's. In this case, the "Tea Party" should include everyone Tzankai mentioned, as well as all those people to whom it is applied in the common understanding of its meaning.The fairest definition of the topic of "Tea Party movement" however should refer to organizations, voters, and activists self-identifying as themselves members of the Tea Party or Tea Party organizations, self identifying as allies of the same, or politicians whose support derives from those efforts
The goal here is not to make some kind of socio-political point, but to reduce disturbance in the editing environment. To schieve that, "broadly construed" must mean what it says. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:25, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
If the general public or the press use "Tea Party" to describe a certain person, they do so because it seems to fit the person's attitude, behavior or politics, regardless of whatever their "official" status is. Such a person is more than likely to create the same possibility of disputatious editing, and should, therefore, be included in the "broadly construed" definition, which is, again, a definition to be used in regard to editing behavior only. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:19, 21 December 2013 (UTC)"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master — that's all."
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Initiated by Malke 2010 (talk) 00:08, 6 January 2014 (UTC)at 00:08, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
The 2013 Arbitration case involving Tea Party movement resulted in topic bans for myself and the above named editors. I'd made an edit request at Gun control. It later occurred to me that gun control is an issue for some groups in the tea party movement. Since the topic ban states, "broadly construed," I'd like to know if this article would be considered among those that are to be avoided. The above named editors have all edited the article after the TPm topic ban. I've avoided all political articles as I do not wish to violate the ban in any way. Thank you.
@NewsAndEventsGuy: Thank you for the commonsense approach. That's an interesting analogy, but Amelia Earhardt didn't make Cookies a political issue. Apparently, the gun thing is a big issue for the tea party movement as well as certain constitutional amendments including the 2nd amendment, right to bear arms. I agree commonsense should be the guide, but when one is topic banned, it's best to ask first, edit second. Malke 2010 (talk) 02:19, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
@Newyorkbrad & Carcharoth: Thank you both. That is excellent advice. General topics okay, specific no. Best to stay away from everything until ban lifted. Malke 2010 (talk) 03:45, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
No, not covered If "gun control" is covered by the Tea Party topic ban, then all articles on every issue mentioned in any local Tea Party chapter's platform are similarly covered by the ban. That would be absurd. If I am banned from talking about Amelia Earhart, and I wish to edit Cookies, am I barred from doing so, since Earhart liked to bake cookies? Same difference. Discussion of an issue is not the same thing as discussion about a party that happnes to care about the issue. That said, one should steer clear of overtly party-related subsections, and I know that's dicey, but the world's an imperfect place. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:51, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I suggest that before assuming that the article in question has anything to do with the TPm, one might note that "tea party" occurs exactly zero times in that article. In fact "tea" occurs zero times in that article. I suggest that saying it is covered in any part by a ban on TPm is stretching the bungee cord to the breaking point, indeed. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:49, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The Paul Ryan case is interesting. It does not make any reference to him being directly connected with the TPm at all. The only "connection" is surmise in an AP article. The article is not listed in any TPm related categories whatsoever. North8000 made no edit remotely connected with the TPm on that BLP that I can find. So -- no real connection to TPm and the edits had absolutely no connection to the TPm means that side issue is grossly overstated here. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
While we're on the subject of defining the Tea-Party topic ban, what about Paul Ryan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)? Ryan has been closely identified with the Tea Party and its agenda by, among others, the Associated Press ("Tea party gets its man in Ryan for vice president"), the New York Times ("Ryan Brings the Tea Party to the Ticket"), and CBS News ("Why Tea Party senior citizens love Paul Ryan").
North8000 (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from Tea-Party-related topics broadly construed. Yet North8000 is actively editing the article and talkpage, after being recruited by another editor to "enforce the consensus" [sic] on the article. Does the Paul Ryan article fall under the umbrella of Tea-Party-related topics, broadly construed? MastCell Talk 17:36, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
I agree with the views of the Committee members that have been stated so far. However, I think that it is worth considering (for the future, maybe, but maybe also for now) whether we made a mistake in making the topic ban so narrow. Might it have been a better choice to make the topic ban an American politics topic ban, or a "really, stop dancing around the edges of all this and go edit something about Mesopotamian architecture"-ban. After all, should we really expect someone who has been disruptive at Tea Party movement to be any better at John Cornyn or Libertarianism or BigGovernment.com? NW (Talk) 20:08, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
While the Tea Party movement deals with gun control, the topic of gun control is not limited to the Tea Party movement. So, for an editor to edit on gun control does not in any way mean they are editing in the area of the Tea Party movement. Surmise, and extending a sanction based on a surmise so that a sanction becomes sweeping is hardly fair or logical in my opinion. Per Floqquenbeam, the question should be specific. Does this article deal with the Tea Party movement specifically. If it takes the arbitration committee to clarify if it does or not, (and I so no evidence that it does), then the second question to ask is, did the editor know this article falls under Tea Party movement. Giving the editor the benefit of the doubt given even the arb committee is discussing this means, in my mind, the editor should be warned to be careful not sanctioned. But as I said in this case, there is no evidence that the article falls under Tea Party movement.(Littleolive oil (talk) 15:52, 8 January 2014 (UTC))
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Malke 2010 at 21:08, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
This is a request to lift the topic ban on Tea Party movement. I abandoned the article in December 2010. After that I made rare talk page comments. One of the comments lead to my inclusion in the case. During the case, I participated in the moderated discussion and made positive contributions there. Before, during and after the case, I continued to write articles. The list is here, almost all of them on viruses. I've written 120 in 12 months.
If the topic ban were lifted, I would continue on as I've been doing, focusing on virology and virology related topics, avoiding political articles and politicized articles. These seem to attract editors more interested in engaging in battle for battle's sake, and I've no interest in that. Occasionally, I do vandal patrol and I would continue with that, and the welcoming committee. I'd like to help expand WikiProject:Viruses, but that will have to wait until much later in the year as RL is very busy at the moment.
@ARBS: Can someone please explain to me why none of you seem to be reading anything I've written here? I'd like to know what does it take to get the topic ban lifted? What specifically do I have to do/demonstrate to get this ban lifted? Thanks.
Having reviewed the case Malke's main error was extending SYTH and OR to third party sources. We absolutely expect, and need, reliable third parties to perform SYNTH and OR.
As Killer Chihuahua commented "The environment is toxic." and I believe that given that environment one might, in retrospect, be more forgiving of confrontational behaviour.
I believe that if the committee is not minded to grant the request, there is scope for a progressive statement making it clear that editing articles on broadly Republican [Democrat] (did I get that right? - [no I didn't] ) issues is no longer within the scope of the topic ban as long as editing with respect to TP articles and TP sections of articles is avoided.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 23:58, 25 April 2014 (UTC).
@AGK:
All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 08:46, 29 April 2014 (UTC).
Malke 2010, can you please tell us what went so horribly wrong last time that it required that you be topic-banned and explain to us how you plan to avoid such problems in the future? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:37, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
@Malke 2010: This finding was passed by ArbCom without dissent, including support from several still-serving Arbitrators. Whether you agree with it or not, the Arbitrators who supported it are likely to believe it is true and other Arbitrators are likely to start from the same assumption. Whether you think it is fair or not, arguing that it was flawed is almost certain to get you nowhere. Strategically, demonstrating a balanced use of academic sources and avoiding incivility in areas of controversy (ie. not near the (I presume) largely uncontroversial virology area) are more likely approaches to being given a second chance than is arguing the case was wrongly decided with respect to you. Even if ArbCom is wrong (about which I take no position), the chances of them admitting it is very low, and fighting for a reversal of their finding has the potential to be seen as battleground behaviour. You may see the topic ban as a badge of shame, and so want it removed, but the way to achieve that is to demonstrate that the reasons given for it do not apply now and leaving aside the question of whether they ever applied... that is, in my opinion, your best chance for achieving relaxation and ultimately removal of your ban. You don't have to declare that the finding is correct, but you do need to accept that it will be the starting point in their thinking. EdChem (talk) 08:18, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by — Arthur Rubin (talk) at 23:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
N/A
It has been 7 months since my last reported violation of the topic ban, although this may be a technical violation, which is part of the reason for my request. Per a previous clarification, I'm allowed to revert banned editors at TPm pages, but I'm not allowed to talk about it. I was going to make an arguably gnomish edit on Citizen Koch (combining 3 references which all support the same statement into one), and, today, I discovered a MonkBot error on Tea Party movement which I technically cannot fix without violating the topic ban. I'm willing to abide by a 1RR per area of an article if it helps your decision, but I would prefer not to be bound by that in an active discussion. If I'm the second and fourth in A → B → A'b → B → B'A', I have made 2 reverts, but I'm actively working on the article. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Arthur was swept up in the prior case for fairly minor sins, and the "time served" argument which is rarely pertinent actually does apply here as he has "noted" - especially where a result occurs which makes no reasonable sense to any outside observer. Collect (talk) 15:12, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
The Committee based its findings of edit-warring on the following 4 diffs:
Yep, that's right. Four reverts over the course of 5 months. Had this occurred in a 24 hour period, then sure, yes, this would be edit-warring and would warrant a 24 hour block. But it didn't happen over 24 hours. This is 5 months of editing. We don't topic ban for 4 reverts over 24 hours nor should we topic ban for 4 reverts over 5 months. If we topic-banned every editor who was at 4RR over a 5 month period, there would be scant editors to edit.
Nevermind the fact that many editors consider WP:BRD to be a best practice.
Face it, the Committee f***ed up and f***ed up royally. Not only should this request be granted, the Committee should apologize for such a ridiculous, absurd ruling. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:59, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Absolutely the Committee should grant this request. Arthur Rubin is a generally non-combative editor of long standing, and a good contributor. Even in this vexed area (TPM) his editing does not amount to anything sanctionable it would seem. I would urge the Committee to go further and remove the topic ban altogether. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:35, 19 August 2014 (UTC).
Proposed:
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Xenophrenic (talk) at 20:34, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
The Arbitration Committee imposed upon me a topic ban and a one-way interaction ban on 5 September 2013, with instructions that I may appeal to ArbCom after 6 months. Now that 14 months have passed, I am requesting that the bans be lifted as no longer necessary, and an undue burden. The "Finding of Fact" about me indicates the Arbs perceived some problems with my Talk page interaction with other Wikipedia editors. I "personalized" the discussions by stubbornly demanding that editors substantiate certain negative personal comments about me, even to the point of "edit warring over comments that negatively portray" me, and "thereby further increasing tension" as I repeatedly deleted those comments and replaced them with ((rpa)) templates. I agree that my conduct was substandard. I have since grown thicker skin and changed the way I respond to those situations -- with the best response often being for me to just ignore it and get back to collaborative editing. I apologize to the Arbs, the clerks and the community for their wasted time and energy due to my part in this matter, and extend my assurance that I won't repeat that conduct. With regard to User:Collect, I "engaged in unnecessary mockery" of his use of Cheers by responding with Where everybody knows your name. I've ceased that response as well, but more to the larger point, I have and will continue to refrain from unnecessary mockery of editors. And Collect: Please accept my apology.
In addition to being no longer necessary, these two remedies are becoming increasingly burdensome. I frequently find myself having to play Six Broadly Construed Degrees of Separation whenever I see the words 'Tea' and 'Party' somewhere in an article I wish to edit or discuss. (Example: while typing a question to Newyorkbrad in response to his comment, I discovered he was talking about a lawsuit drafted by a Tea Party activist, so I had to hold my tongue, lest someone twist that into a topic ban violation.) See this discussion for an example of how reasonable people can completely disagree on what is "related to" the Tea Party; there are 1000s of articles linked to Tea Party. It is cumbersome to "not interact with" an editor after they revert your edits and open a Request for Comment(RfC) on those very edits, while still trying to communicate on the Talk page. More examples upon request.
I'm up against the word-limit now, but if there are any reservations about lifting the sanctions, I can strengthen my request by providing details on:
Thank you for your consideration in this matter. I'll leave you with these wise words on I-BANs, with which I happen to agree. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 20:34, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I would be fully unaffected by this amendment, as I have no sanctions extant under the Tea Party Movement case. My appeal to Jimbo has met with absolutely no response, but we are well past the six month mark making this amendment request totally moot. The one way interaction ban should be carefully weighed - I have not interacted with Xenophrenic at any point, and would just as soon have him continued to be constrained. Collect (talk) 11:59, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
I am, moreover, aghast that the common use in infoboxes to include degrees received is what his major complaint appears to be. There was, in fact, a discussion on the template page, as I trust he is aware, and he appeared to be in full accord with the solution, so I do not know what his issue with me is here. Collect (talk) 12:07, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Note to people who note my belief that 1 way bans should be of specified duration - I still hold that view. I do not understand why my position here that the single 1 way ban should not be abrogated at this point is of any dispute, though I would think that making it for a specified period as MastCell notes would not be amiss. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:30, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
@Xenophrenic I would suggest that a "date certain" to end the iban is in accord with my consistent positions on such bans, and think perhaps setting it at 1 January 2015 would not be unduly burdensome. I further note that I have never had any "enemies list" to stalk or make derogatory comments about on Wikipedia, though I will grant some of your older posts did vex me a tad. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:07, 11 November 2014 (UTC) {Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}
My position has always been that 1 way Ibans should have a defined term, at least to the best of my recollection, and the charge of "hypocrisy" is painful. The case presented, however, seeks two distinct and basically unrelated changes to the ArbCom sanctions, thus separating the two seemed to me to be rational. Setting a time certain is rational, but tying it to this request is quite imperfect. One should note that I have, as far as I can tell, been civil to Xenophrenic, and have not made any edits with any intent other than benefitting the project. This would leave the sole issue the actual TPm topic ban, for which I proffer no opinion. Nor did I proffer evidence against any editor in the TPm case, and the "findings" against me were drafted by an Arbitrator using diffs not presented by anyone other than the single arbitrator. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:28, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
I brought up the initial clarification before, so I'm commenting to note that, while I haven't had any further encounters with Xenophrenic since then, others certainly have and probably didn't notice that he was under sanction, given that even in the last few months he has edits to sanction-related articles like Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now [6], Efforts to impeach Barack Obama [7], United States House of Representatives v. Obama [8], Van Jones [9], and Alan Grayson [10] (and this is using a fairly narrow standard of "broadly construed." If the topic ban is about keeping him from engaging in incivility on these pages, I'm unaware of any evidence that he's continued that behavior. If the topic ban, however, was to keep him away from Tea Party-related articles, he has very clearly not done so. I have no interest in stalking his edits to keep him in line, but the result of this appeal should really be about the intent of the topic ban, especially as his edits, at first glance, do not appear to be problematic the way other editors' edits were. Thargor Orlando (talk) 13:32, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Collect has previously been very vocal and consistent in his belief that one-way interaction bans are unfair and useless:
In light of Collect's vehement opposition to one-way interaction bans, I find his support for continuing such a ban here puzzling. I'm not sure it has any bearing on whether Xenophrenic's interaction ban should be lifted (it probably should, on a trial basis and on the basis of good behavior, particularly as the 1-way ban allows Collect to revert him with impunity). It's more that, having now spent more than 8 years on Wikipedia, my patience with hypocrisy is pretty much depleted and I find it difficult to ignore. MastCell Talk 19:05, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
MastCell, I think there are plenty of examples of hypocrisy by all of us, myself included, that can be brought up whenever one of us is trying to push our individual agendas in these administrative forums by pushing for the sanctions to be lifted on an editor whose edits we approve of or to poison the well against an editor whose perceived bias we disapprove of. Part of the Wiki-gameplaying which makes WP such a pleasant place to be a part of. Cla68 (talk) 23:46, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Proposed:
Remedy 7.1 ("Xenophrenic topic-banned") and Remedy 7.2 ("Xenophrenic interaction ban with Collect") of the Tea Party movement decision are suspended. These remedies may be enforced under the relevant enforcement provision, but effective the passage of this motion they shall only be enforced for edits by Xenophrenic (talk · contribs) that, in the enforcing administrator's judgement, would have been considered disruptive for some other reason than that they breached the remedy had it not been suspended.
Enforcement action taken pursuant to the foregoing may be appealed in the ordinary way to a consensus view of uninvolved administrators. If no such enforcement action is taken (or all such actions are taken and successfully appealed) by 01 January 2015, on that date the remedies will become formally vacated by this motion, and the case pages then amended by the clerks in the usual way. If an appeal of such enforcement action is pending on 01 January 2015, the remedies will become formally vacated only if the appeal is successful. If enforcement action is taken and an appeal is rejected, the remedies shall become unsuspended and a request for their amendment may not be re-submitted to the committee until six months have elapsed from the passage of this motion.