In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 21:16, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 18:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC).
This user engages in a sustained attack on the America's Army article. — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:16, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
At least two users have tried to justify an edit on America's Army, mentioning that the game is the most successful serious game to date. This user refuses to allow (he threatens to revert any such edits). The two users who have justified their positions with numerous references have been met with vociferous (and often incomprehensible) objection from this user.
This user has engaged in combative behavior in other sections of the Talk page of the same article. — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:16, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
Additionally, the user insists on stating outright that the game is propaganda. Regardless of whether or not it is (and I believe it may be), the issue is not clear-cut enough to mention that the game is propaganda without qualifying it, e.g. "Many journalists have labeled the game as propaganda." Andre (talk) 03:39, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
LOL well, it IS propaganda in its purest form. I've had a discussion with you filling the entire talk page and if I haven't made myself clear, I'll take it you will never agree with it no matter what I'll have as proof, so please: get over it. I haven't even touched the article for a long time now as I've more important things to do than have an argument on some web site (please don't take it personally). I could add very many more information, and I mean it, information that could and even should be rightfully included but that would make you hate me even more. I could even argue for deletion of "serious game" in general but as I see you've more or less dropped that childish and destructive resistance, so I'd consider me an asshole if I tried to be so destructive myself. I'm very pleased for that resistance in some way though. An opposition did the article well I think. Maybe I'll soon include some screenies (no fear: I'll make sure they as unbiased as they could ever be) and so far I'm really happy about the article and in general. I'm overjoyed, well, not about the article but in general. Thanks for your time anyway. Wheeee!!! These days are so great! And tomorrow is Friday already! Oh right, as the accused I'm here to be unhappy =) Let's all sue me for change!!! Nimm meine Hand - lass Vergangenes sterben. Dies ist die Zeit neugeborenen zu werden. Hope I don't sound arrogant on the page but I'm too blissful to be serious now!! Too enthusiastic or even naive you could say. Hey! Did Bond graduate recently? Congratulations then! I gotta go, see you on my new talk page (THIS one) soon. And don't forget: behave, boys! LOL. sorry. I shouldnt be writing now, cya nyway!! Ha e a nice day, enjoy!!149.225.36.155 18:57, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) (bad IPs)
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1)This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.
Hello, I'm user XXX.XXX.XXX about which this discussion is and I'd like to defend myself. It would be a bit unfair if the indictee is not allowed to do so.
First of all, America's Army is a very interesting game in my opinion. You cannot even say "game" because it is an experiment that proved successfull and this aftermath will affect further "games" of that type. For me it is interesting, because it is a vanguard of a genre I personally dislike and wouldn't like to be successful as I'm a computer gamer myself. America's Army is the first step of a propaganda wave that now wants money from the victim (let me refer to players like that). The gameplay of America's Army is interesting too and accounts. The game makes use of really interesting tactics. Realism is important too because, well, the game is not that realistic at all. Weapons, well, if you're a gun nut or UN weapons inspector, you might be interested in that ;) . That section is the only section of little importance. "Cheating" is interesting because it is a fight the game might lose and because the developers threaten with executive power that would never care. As I dislike the game, of course, I'm biased. Biased like you, Bond, Freckle and Andre although I think you're biased towards US products or the real US Army or whatever. You admitted what you think: "It's so obvious you have problems with America or the U.S. Army that you've for some reason chosen this game and this arguement to tout your beliefs." I want you to know that I'm NOT anti-American because Anti-Americanism is an unfair generalization of people I mainly don't know. Those Americans I've met in real life were really great and friendly so I see no point in negative feelings towards them.
Above all, I'd like you to drop ALL of your double standards, Bond, Freckle and Andre. I mean it. First of all concerning propaganda. (I've recently found a summary, which explains why advertisement shouldn't be said but propaganda [1])
When it comes to the word "Propaganda" 100kByte of text were needed to include the point in the main article. Sometimes I thought you really don't think it is, sometimes that you just want to pretend to be ignorant. The sources provided came from universities, a global TV channel and serious newspapers of either the USA or allied nations. There are many more: for example [2], which is of very high quality but not of an authority and that's because I didn't want to place it to external links, who all have authority. Now, for you these sources were not enough. But when someone posts some links to non-authority sources it verifies his point, huh? Your hypocrisy really got on my nerves so sorry for my abusive language (whatever you mean by that).
Your hypocrisy continued unfortunately. Let's look at flaming.
Frecklefood: "K1Bond007, thanks for your help in dealing with <whatever his name is>. He sure is a whack-o." [3]
Bond: "The person, that you're well aware of, is being (to be absolutely frank) an idiot -again- and I'm hoping to get this resolved once and for all. I don't care if this has to go to the Mediation Committe or Arbitration Committee or whatever, I just want this done." [4]
Bond on discussion page:
"The sentence above about -people not knowing it is- is rubbish."
"WTF more can you possibly ask for. You're just wasting my time."
"We all know what you are and are full of." (alludes to "shit")
"Anyone that visits this talk page and attempts to edit the page knows you're biased. It's time for this immature BS to end, if that means the end result is you getting banned -permanently-. Then so be it. It's now my personal mission to see how far this baby can go. Sorry. I'm sick of your shit and I'm not going to waste anymore my time arguing with you."
"IT'S A DAMN GAME."
"Wikipedia needs less people like you. This is the most immature arguement I think I've ever been involved in and the sad thing is we've displayed enough sources that there should be no discussion about this at all, yet here you are - FIGHTING in the trenches against the tyranny of the "serious game". Enough is enough. This bullshit needs to end. One way or the other."
"Wow, what a load of BS. Why not just say "I'm biased towards this game and I disagree"?"
"Otherwise you're just spewing BS and crap."
These were your fine words from 23 Jan 2005 - today. ONE WEEK. If I were like you, I'd have initiated a comment on you.
And Andrevean is guilty for tolerating it when I get insulted and not tolerating when I do it. Also, Andre, you've wrongfully banned me for 3-revert-rule and wrongfully had the site protected and even for "vandalization". Did I start a campaign against you as an administrator? Next time follow this rule: when criticizing someone, do that after you've criticised yourself.
2)There's another point I'd like to mention: "serious game". Frecklefood, if you had presented that source, you'd have had an authority argument. It's a newspaper you've found, which would have deeply changed our discussion. Now, this doesn't speak for your side more than for my one, I'm afraid.
"the term used to describe video games for non-entertainment purposes"
Of course it is a serious game then! Purpose: Propaganda for the US Army. If you accept the definition, you must change your article about "serious games" fundamentally. "Simulation" (a word I dislike for its inaccuracy) is ONE example of a serious game. Even then I doubt the term should be included: "most successful" is subjective as the success depends on the number of people who had a better view on the army. And even then I wonder why it should be included because that would be like mentioning "living being" for a bird, while "animal" is sufficient. But before we start discussing where and how to include it, you should make the definition of "serious game" accurate. This means you should exclude all your glorifications. Just look at how you described it: a perfect genre: no disadvantages and pure success. You can just as well not accept the article as an authority argument because it should have at least two of different and independent of each other newspapers, not one. That's the reason why I haven't included "propagame" as it is only ONE article describing it like that. But this article is from a university and based on some hundred hours of playing time, which means it has certainly FAR more authority than your newspaper. But your definition must be changed at any rate. The newspaper article just made it more legitim.62.134.105.247 15:34, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)oops, please put that paragraph anywhere where it's supposed to be. I wasnt trying to be spamming with it. have no tiem byebye149.225.36.155 19:00, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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This is a waste of time. It is just a video game! Whoever made this RFC should be embarrassed. --JuliaW 13:50, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.
I have tried countless times to have a discussion on many different topics dealing with America's Army with this user. He edits under the IP seen in the article as well as 217.185.104.xxx and at one point was registered with Wikipedia under the name "Nightbeast". He consistantly pushes his POV on the article to an extreme I've never seen on any other article. The discussion that I'm currently involved in there now has to do with listing America's Army as a Serious game. Frecklefoot and myself have listed numerous sources claiming the game is considered a part of this new genre including links to the official America's Army website as well as an official summit on the genre that is endorsed and sponsered by the U.S. Army. All previous attempts to make a change to the article adding this relevant statement, however, has resulted with him reverting it without any sort of factual evidence besides his own opinion on the topic.
I've previously, asked for help from admins (specifically Andrevan) who can attest to the problems with this user in the past dealing with the controversies of the game and the users adamant attempts to insert his opinion in the article. K1Bond007 01:34, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
I can understand your difficulty in understanding the nature of the complaint (if your browser doesn't jump there, you must go to the "Serious game" heading on the Talk page). The Talk section on the problem is huge and I find the user in question's responses difficult to parse. The whole issue has been discussed for weeks now.
It boils down to this: America's Army is the world's most successful serious game. I mentioned this in the article, it was swiftly reverted and the matter was taken up on the Talk page. This user and others demanded evidence for the statement. I provided it, which satisfied all the other users but this one. He claims all the references I provided (and K1Bond007) are biased and unreliable. He states that the game can as easily be justified as "porn" as it can a serious game. He threatens to revert any attempt at mentioning that AA is a serious game.
The facts are this: the serious game industry continually mentions AA as the most successful serious game to date. The US Army itself hosted the opening events and sponsered several serious game conferences because of America's Army. The references K1Bond007 and I have provided are irrefutable, but this user refuses to acknowledge them. If you scroll down to near the bottom of the "Serious game" section of the Talk page and read just the last few responses, you should get the gist of the complaint. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:23, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)
(The following was moved here from the "Humblefool's Summary" section, which it was cluttering up, and to which it was increasingly irrelevant.)
Goodbye and thanks for your time anyway.62.134.105.114 22:46, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)