Nick Griffin

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review
Result: List as GA per improvements made during this reassessment and consensus below. Geometry guy 13:10, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article on a very controversial UK politician was failed earlier today mainly because the reviewer felt that it was not written in a sufficiently neutral manner. A lack of stability was also mentioned, but the only "instability" evident to me was some edits in response to the charge of insufficient lack of neutrality.

I feel that this article does indeed meet the GA criteria, but because of its controversial nature, and my disagreement with the original reviewer over its neutrality, I feel that a community review is the best way forward, with hopefully a few more eyes looking at the article. --Malleus Fatuorum 17:00, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The reviewer also objects to the article changing because it is unstable for edit warring. There isn't a normal edit war. Sometimes content changes back and forth over the course of a week or longer without heading towards a consensus, a "slow motion" edit war.
Question: is there a "slow motion" edit war? Can the reviewer or anyone else point it out?
Not really. If you examine the talk page and its archives you'll see arguments about the placement of various lines of text, which led to a short edit war over the course of a day or two. This was resolved by mutual agreement, when I copied the article to my sandbox for a few days to continue work. The editors involved in that war, of which I was one, have now resolved these differences. The talk page is a good indicator of collaboration - see the recent posts on it. Parrot of Doom 17:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see one either. The article is stable. Diderot's dreams (talk) 17:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have examined the article I agree that it generally meets the GA criteria. I found a couple of problems. The section titled "Criminal charges" seems titled in a POV way. The title suggests Griffin is currently charged with crimes, or that the crimes are more serious than what the subject was charged or convicted with, or that there is a long criminal history. I suggest being more specific.
Well, they were criminal charges, that much is indisputable, and he is a convicted criminal, also indisputable. Nobody involved with the article has ever objected to these headings. Parrot of Doom 17:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The title is factually correct, but it is the suggestion or insinuation that is the problem. More exactness would remedy it. And it is natural that reviewers here sometimes bring up new issues-- the GA criteria are quite broad and GAR offers a fresh, outside perspective from multiple experienced reviewers. Diderot's dreams (talk) 17:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'd need someone to make a suggestion - being more 'exact' would doubtless lead some people to believe that we were trying to 'paint' the article a particular way. For instance, 'views' is just that - his views. Public debates is the same - but were both those to be more exact, can you imagine how unpopular that might be? I think that 'criminal charges' is a good compromise, and is backed up by the sources. Parrot of Doom 18:49, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest "Criminal charges over writings and comments". This makes it clear and removes the implications I listed above. These other sections are a different case because they are not negative in the general. No dislikes someone because they have 'views' per se. Very different for 'criminal charges'. I understand you don't want to stir up controversy amongst editors by being more specific, and generally this is a good idea, but not in this case. Diderot's dreams (talk) 14:03, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, I'd have to disagree with such a change in heading. I think its best to keep things simple. I don't feel particularly strongly about it though. Others may have cause to comment though. Parrot of Doom 21:24, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is a lot about what Griffin believes, or at least his controversial beliefs, but there is no discussion of what policies Griffin intends to pursue or campaigned for in his most recent election. What does he specifically want to do? I imagine this is the same as BNP policy, but we need to talk about it some in the article. Diderot's dreams (talk) 15:25, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Big can of worms there. We can only really stick to the BNP manifesto, and to be honest (I edit lots of other articles) I haven't really given that much thought. I think its well worth consideration though if anyone wanted to take it to FAC. My involvement with this was to produce the best article we could on a controversial politician. If we can do that, it'll stand Wikipedia in good stead. Parrot of Doom 17:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that this is a main aspect of the subject. There should be some coverage of it in the article. I think too there are other sources available. Surely Griffin's done some campaign speeches or interviews where he says something about his plans. If not the BNP policies would do.
Its a good point and well taken. I've looked at other politician's articles and noticed this section, so I'll work on this when I return from work next week. Parrot of Doom 18:49, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've made a start. Its taking time though - publication of Griffin's views in the mainstream press is understandably difficult to come by. The BNP website is also quite slow. I know for certain he's against the wars in the ME, and I recall something about calling Tony Blair a war criminal, but its difficult to find this stuff. Parrot of Doom 21:24, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are making some progress. I would think a campaign speech or victory speech would have some information and be available. I had no problem getting through to the BNP website, you might try again. The policies that the BNP would implement in various areas are rather clearly detailed. If nothing more specific about Griffin's planned policies can be found, a summary of these would work. Diderot's dreams (talk) 04:06, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've added details of his speech made at that pub in Manchester, upon his election as an MEP. I can't find his election speech for the BNP, it doesn't appear to be readily available (not surprising really since nobody reported on the BNP much back then). I've also added a basic outline of BNP policies, sourced from their website.
I think a very valuable source of information for this article will be his appearance on BBC Question Time later this month. Parrot of Doom 08:35, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What you've added deals solves the breadth issue. I do want to go through the additions for factual accuracy and potential omissions relevant to NPOV. Diderot's dreams (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is easy to omit things like this when you are concentrating of other aspects of the subject. And, of course, missing a main aspect is not to say the article is "bad" in any way-- there's lots of good work here. It is just short of the Good Article standard. Diderot's dreams (talk) 17:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Category