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Nominator's rationale: There is only one article in this category, with low chances that it will ever be a meaningful size. Jontesta (talk) 23:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:NARROWCAT, a relatively short period in Chinese history from 220 to 280 AD does not require splitting in every of the three parallel kingdoms. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:22, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nominator's rational. Inter&anthro (talk) 12:26, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category: Philosophy majors
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Delete, we do not categorize by education level. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It is outside the scope of Wikipedia's categorization methods. desmay (talk) 18:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No one is really defined by their undergraduate major. Mason (talk) 04:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Australian-themed retailers
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Nominator's rationale: The only category of its kind that I can find with the name of a nation and themed retailers on Wikipedia. This category does not make any sense as these are companies with operations in Australia, but are not Australian-themed. Themed would imply something implicit about Australian culture or history. This can be considered to be OR as the majority of articles don't make mention that they are based on the concept of Australian culture.
They would include Bloomin' Brands, Deliveroo, Gillyhicks, Kangaroo (video on demand), KangaRoos, and Kangol. Australia Dairy Company has little to do with it other than materials imported from the country. Australian Homemade is just the name of a sweets company. Bloomin' Brands is just a holding company that owns several restaurant chains.
Outback Steakhouse and Walkabout (pub chain) are the only two businesses with a theme based on Australia, but even then two articles would be too small for a category like this.
The categories that this is under Retailers by type of merchandise sold, Works about Australia, and Retailing in Australia have no relevance as these are not works in terms of literature, films, music, etc. usually considered in the line of popular culture. No evidence they sell Australian-type merchandise if that is even a thing.
And while Retailing in Australia would be considered since a couple of them do business in Australia, they should be in the Retailing category than this one if it applies. Australian Homemade is under Category:Restaurant chains in Australia, under a subcat of Australian brands, which is a subcat of the main Retailing in Australia category. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 13:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Albanian basketball players by populated place
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Category:Children of two peers and peeresses created life peers
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Category:Children of two peers and peeresses created life peers to Category:Children of two peers and peeresses – C2E. I created this category. Some people may be children of a life peer and a hereditary peer, so not qualifying for this category. A new category purely for such an example, like Charlotte Hogg, would be too niche, so perhaps it is better to broaden the scope so that there is a category covering anyone whose parents were/are both peers, regardless of the type of peerage. TrottieTrue (talk) 23:57, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Kryvyi Rih National University, General Faculty alumni
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Kryvyi Rih National University, General Faculty is a redundant category layer, and the alumni category only has 1 person in it. Mason (talk) 01:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Athletes by religion
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Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCTRIVIAL, there is a long-standing consensus against intertwining sports and religion on Wikipedia (see here for example), and I struggle to see how these categories are any different. Because the article entries appear to be only from the United States, perhaps there could be a move discussion to something like Category:American Muslim athletes or Category:American athletes by religion as that may have been the creator's intention, but that still would seem to fail the site's category guidelines. Inter&anthro (talk) 20:21, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Please note that this differs from Jewish athletes since Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion (an ethnoreligion) and most Jewish athletes identity as Jewish by virtue of being born Jewish and very few (VERY few) actually convert. Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed but there are exceptions to that rule as well. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see why. There are lots of Jewish categories for sure but that is just because WP:OCEGRS is not well reinforced. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is fair. If you want, I can go through them. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:53, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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June 18
Category:Usain Bolt
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Nominator's rationale: No need for an eponymous category for one related article. WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 20:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I added some pages to the category so there's not just one anymore. There are plenty more that could be added as well – for example, similar to List of career achievements by Michael Johnson or for his book, his foundation, etc. --Habst (talk) 20:15, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep; it seems perfectly reasonable and, I imagine, will be more populated with time. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Refugees ennobled in the United Kingdom
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Nominator's rationale: Delete. A cross-section between refugees and nobles. While defining seperately, they aren't defining together. Also, one of them was not ennobled but rather married into the British royal family. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Fooian Barons
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Nominator's rationale: I would have speedied this but will go through Cfd first then the rest can be speedied. Rename; the name can be misleading and I think the correct form should be "Fooian barons", like it is "Fooian baronesses" and so. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:36, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No explanation or reason. Why can it be misleading? --Silverije 22:48, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename, these are categories by nationality, not by title. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Barons from the Austrian Empire
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Category:Japanese films by subject
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Nominator's rationale: This category seems to overlap the standard "by topic and country" one. Unless I missed something. (There's no Category:Films by subject and country)-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 16:01, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Largely redundant, as all major languages and most languages with millions of speakers have one. If we do decide this is a useful category, rename to Category:Languages with ISO 639-3 codes. Remsense诉 10:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:merge/keep/delete respectively.
Support Adding two categories that will become empty if this is merged. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the 21st-C and Centuries categories - keepCategory:History of Nouakchott. There was some undersorting - the category now has several articles. Grutness...wha? 04:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Then keeping the history category is reasonable. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Propose renaming Category:Dead or Alive (franchise) films to Category:Dead of Alive (film series)
Nominator's rationale: To avoid confusion with the Dead or Alive video game franchise. Could also be deleted, as the films have a fairly loose connection between them. (Oinkers42) (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
May want to check on the suggested category name; you may have meant or rather than of. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:09, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Yeah right now the name is quite confusing.★Trekker (talk) 23:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Companies in the MSCI KLD 400 Social Index
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The result of the discussion was:delete. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Companies in the MSCI KLD 400 Social Index (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Not a defining category -- one of many indices that these companies would be on. Index's own article doesn't demonstrate notability. Nat Gertler (talk) 19:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - MSCI literally publishes the inclusion criteria/methodology. A company wouldn't "just be on" a list like this (ie Apple isn't). It's exclusive enough (only about 10% of companies in the US). Only reason article doesn't list them all is because there's 400 of them. And that's what a category is for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.78.190.234 (talk) 20:24, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That might make it a defined category; that does not make it a defining category of the group's members, one that is likely to be mentioned by appropriate sources covering an individual member... which is the requirement for categorization. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 20:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, not a defining characteristic of a company. If anything, a list might be created, instead of a category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:38, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. For this to be a useful category, when independent reliable sources (probably in the business press) are writing articles about companies that are in the index, those sources would have to mention that, for example, "Company X, a member of the MSCI KLD 400 Social Index, etc." or write articles noting that a company was added to or removed from the Index. Those sorts of mentions would have to be made in reliable sources of a company's inclusion in the Index in order to add a sentence to the article asserting as an important fact about the company that it is in the Index. Then enough such sentences in enough such articles would have to exist before it would make sense to have a category like this. This category in recent days has been added to dozens of articles and although I haven't looked at all of them, the articles I have looked at don't even mention in the body of the article that the company belongs to the Index. This means that the many editors who have worked on these many articles have hitherto not felt that being in the Index was a notable or important fact about the companies they were writing about which might be because reliable news sources don't mention it either, with respect to the companies that belong to the Index. Novellasyes (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the interest of clarity, I should note that the IP user who responded "Keep" above actually did add text mentioning the Index listing to dozens of articles about companies on the Index (in the wake of the category being deleted from a company's page because it was not mentioned in the text.) However, the source they were using was a promotional page for an Index-based fund on Blackrock, which is not only selling a fund based on the index but is one of the companies in the Index. As such, it is not truly an independent source... and even if it were, it's not a source for the listing of a company on the source being significant to that company. I reverted those additions, as so many links to a sales page add up to the strong scent of spam. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 17:03, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay got that thanks! Sorry I missed it. Big old mess, right? Novellasyes (talk) 17:49, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:deleteHouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:52, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Rugby league players by city or town in Namibia
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The result of the discussion was:deleteHouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Rugby league players by city or town in Namibia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deletingCategory:Rugby league players from Tsumeb (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale:Delete whole tree. Only one category which only has one article. Omnis Scientia (talk) 13:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:White Southerners (United States)
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The result of the discussion was:delete. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category. Half of Americans could conceivably belong to this group. First two applications of this cat (Confederados, Jefferson Davis) demonstrate the user's intention. This new category is associated with category creator's reverted new versions of White Southerners article. BusterD (talk) 13:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Lists of Emmerdale characters
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The result of the discussion was:keep. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I feel as though that renaming it to 'Category:List of Emmerdale characters'. Reason (rationale) is because I feel as though 'list' makes more sense than 'lists', but idk if the grammar/title is in a correct format so I am brining it to discussion. JuniperChill (talk) 12:35, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - This is not a list of characters, it is a category containing the "lists" of characters and hence should not be renamed. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 13:17, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, the category contains multiple lists. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Selective merge/major purge. Only two of the pages actually fit in this category; the rest are medical professionals who treated the plague. Mason (talk) 01:48, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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June 16
Category:Mexican baseball players by populated place
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Weak keep. There's only one subcat because one or two American baseball fans decided that baseball shouldn't be split by city (unlike every other sport). A fewcouple of Mexican city categories (such as Monterrey) were deleted at that time. I've added one that didn't exist before, so there are now two in the proposed category, but if that's seen as unnecessary, you have my permission (as sole author) to delete it too. Grutness...wha? 03:11, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Cheerleader video games
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The result of the discussion was:Procedural close. As it is uncontroversial, it will be immediately nominated for speedy renaming. (non-admin closure)ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:38, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: All other activity-related video game categories follow the format of referring to the name of the activity rather than an individual participant in it. For instance, "Cooking Video Games" rather than "Chef Video Games" and "Association Football Video Games" rather than "Footballer Video Games". The category should therefore follow this naming convention. SummerPocket (talk) 20:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am going to procedurally close this and nominate it for speedy renaming instead, as it is an uncontroversial rename based on the parent category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:37, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Works by year and decade, 500-1000
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Delete The date of creation of most works from this era is not percisely known. Most of the lower-level categories are also overly small. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:Moot. Nom is moot because cats deleted under G5: Creation by a blocked or banned user in violation of block or ban (non-admin closure)Mason (talk) 00:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Terrorist shootings in the 2020s (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deletingCategory:Terrorist shootings in the 2010s (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: We don't need to distinguish that the shooting was terrorist related. And this is really giving off the same vibes Mason (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Bombings
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The result of the discussion was:Moot. Nom is moot because cats deleted under G5: Creation by a blocked or banned user in violation of block or ban (non-admin closure)Mason (talk) 00:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Empty pile of categories by a new editor who's category creation behavior is reminiscent of @Brudelman:. I'm nomiating the cats to just get them all out of the way in one go. Mason (talk) 18:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Com Truise
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Nominator's rationale: With only subcategories for albums (and their covers, which are only image files) along with a discography page, this is overcategorization per WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 16:55, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Basshunter instrumentals
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Nominator's rationale: This is the only category in Category:Instrumentals dedicated to one artist, and all of the items in the category are redirects. Trivialist (talk) 16:29, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Knights of Boufflers
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Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge. The only person is each of these category doesn't mention this knighthood. Mason (talk) 14:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Defunct off-price department stores of the United States
Category:Expulsions of Jews in 19th-century Europe
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@Smasongarrison missing rationale in this and the three other proposals above? You could bundle them with the proposal below, or copypaste your rationale from it? NLeeuw (talk) 13:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You caught me mid bundle, as I had just discovered the CFD, and got distracted. Mason (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Narrow categories made by the same user that are not helpful for navigation. If not merged, they need to be renamed to match category conventions. Notably the category creator participated in the CFD Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_February_7#Category:Expulsions_of_Jews_in_Nazi-controlled_Europe, which ended in delete/merge. They immediately recreated one of the categories and added the page back less than 24 hours after the CFD was processed.[1]Mason (talk) 13:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Purge and merge, many articles aren't about an expulsion at all. Too few really are about an expulsion so we do not need this diffusion. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge – Per nom. Yue🌙 06:26, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Philippine Military Academy Class of 1986
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Category:Primary sources on Philippine history in the 16th century
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Nominator's rationale: merge. Is a non-defining 3x intersection category, and several of the documents in 16th century aren't actually from the 16th century Mason (talk) 12:54, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Quite interesting, actually, but Mason is right. NLeeuw (talk) 13:21, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Authors of Spanish ethnographic accounts of the Philippines in the 16th century
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Nominator's rationale: Multiple merge this Narrow category. If not merged, it should be renamed to Spanish ethnographers of the colonial Philippines or something to that effect Mason (talk) 12:47, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:21st-century Somali-Canadian women engineers
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Nominator's rationale: Extremely narrow intersection, made by a user who hasn't really learned how categories work Mason (talk) 04:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete's fine with me. 21st-century Somali women engineers with be empty afterwards. Mason (talk) 12:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:African women mathematicians
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Nominator's rationale: Is underpopulated at the moment. It could be used as a container category. Mason (talk) 03:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just delete, articles are already in a mathematicians by nationality category. It is odd to have biographies directly in a continent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:06, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete's fine with me Mason (talk) 12:48, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:African women in engineering
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Propose deletingCategory:African women in engineering (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: There's no African engineers category parent category. Delete per EGRS. I'm working on adding each person to the proper parent categories. Mason (talk) 03:44, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, it is odd to have biographies directly in a continent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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June 15
X by ethnic or national origin
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Rename, ethnicity is not about people's ancestors, it is about what people are themselves. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 13:02, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:43, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:20th century rump states
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge this isolated category. If not merged, it should be renamed to 20th-century rump states Mason (talk) 21:59, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge The target category is not large enough to support any diffusion beyond the remaining categories by historical empire. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:44, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:21st century in Malé
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Nominator's rationale:merge, redundant category layer, this is the only content in the tree of the target. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:14, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Category:Centuries in Malé can also be deleted, as it will become empty. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 23:49, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Battles of the American Revolutionary War by state
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Nominator's rationale:upmerge, "counterpart" is a subjective characterizstion. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:20, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Manual merge Mixture of several distinct concepts, some of which are covered by other subcategories of the target. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I still get the impression that these roles should have their own categories if applicable, e.g. a category for Category:Fictional love interests. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:47, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see that I previously defended this category, but some former members may have been merged, leaving less content to make these two categories worthwhile. I now support the proposed merge. – FayenaticLondon 15:12, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Antagonists by role
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Rename per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 13:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:United Hospitals
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Nominator's rationale: These categories appear to be equivalent and "Medical schools in London" describes the contents of the categories more clearly. I have not nominated the Category:United Hospitals sports clubs subcategory as that may be the common name. TSventon (talk) 15:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom, but leave a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that a redirect makes sense. TSventon (talk) 11:47, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Hotel Transylvania television series
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Category:People with substance use disorder
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Comment Shouldn't this be something like List of foods/dishes by cuisine? All child categories are named Fooian cuisine-related lists, while almost all articles are named List of Barian dishes/foods/drinks/desserts/ingredients. It seems like Barian is explicitly meant to include diaspora communities of Barian emigrants around the world, who have taken their Barian cuisine dishes and stuff with them. If we rename to "by country", we could be excluding diaspora communities, while "nationality" (though problematic) at least includes first-generation emigrants from Bar. I'm not sure what a better alternative would be, though. Thoughts? NLeeuw (talk) 14:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm yeah. I'm still missing the "cuisine" part though. Lists of foods/dishes by cuisine by country? Idk. NLeeuw (talk) 15:43, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cuisine-related lists by country? --DB1729talk 13:31, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do not need food or dishes at all, so Cuisine-related lists by country is the better option. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:59, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Cuisine-related lists by country sounds like a good choice, since it represents what's in the category. --Funandtrvl (talk) 00:09, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Won't we need Category:Cuisine-related lists, also? --Funandtrvl (talk) 00:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Given that the nominator turns to have been a sockpuppet and has now been blocked, but we seem close to an agreement, I suggest we rename to Category:Cuisine-related lists per Marcocapelle. @Funandtrvl and DB1729: would you agree? And @Marcocapelle: you might want to clarify your !vote of 16:26, 6 June 2024 (the closer might get confused whether it should be counted for original proposal Category:Lists of foods by country, or amended proposal Category:Cuisine-related lists). NLeeuw (talk) 13:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. Rename to Category:Cuisine-related lists. DB1729talk 13:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
agree, rename to Category:Cuisine-related lists. --Funandtrvl (talk) 02:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd put the renamed category as a child category of Category:Cuisine, instead of under Category:Cuisine by country. --Funandtrvl (talk) 03:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete/upmerge, little point carving out Federal territory categories from state categories. (Whether that means renaming categories like Category:Categories by state of Malaysia is another matter.) CMD (talk) 08:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is already in the relevant subcategories of the parents. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Cultural policy of East Germany
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Propose deletingCategory:Cultural policy of East Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale:delete, overall poorly fitting content. One article is about a festival, the other article is about general duties of citizens. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:18th-century German Jewish theologians
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Category:Ambassadors of Australia to Kosovo
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Propose deletingCategory:Ambassadors of Australia to Kosovo (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: This category is for people articles, not list articles. LibStar (talk) 02:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, it is not necessarily wrong to have the list in the category, but with only the list in it the category is redundant. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:20, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Film posters by country
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Nominator's rationale: The current category names are ambiguous as to whether they're, for example, posters of Swedish films or film posters from Sweden. I'd recommend renaming to "Film posters of Sweden" like the Commons categories. hinnk (talk) 21:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question I hate to be pedantic, but do you mean:
Film posters made in Sweden?
Film posters hung in Sweden?
Posters of films made in Sweden?
Posters of films made by Swedish crew members or crew members from Sweden?
Film posters that show "Sweden" (e.g. its landscapes or symbols associated with Sweden)?
Film posters made or owned by the government of Sweden?
Poster of films made by the government of Sweden?
Etc.
All of these are more or less reasonable interpretations of Film posters of Sweden. I'm glad you're trying to clarify the catnames, but I don't see it getting much clearer. NLeeuw (talk) 22:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmmm ok. Weak support. It's better than the current situation. NLeeuw (talk) 18:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, regardless of renaming I do not think this is very ambiguous. Posters of Swedish films (i.e. in other countries than Sweden) would be a rather odd reading. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:06, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning oppose; I don't think its very ambiguous. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Commons category naming tends to have less good scrutiny than enwiki, so it lacks weight as a precedent. These poster categories should follow the parents Category:Japanese films etc. – FayenaticLondon 13:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep. 9 pages now that I have put the communes into the category. 14 when articles are started for the capitals of the communes. And a region with over 600,000 people surely has many more settlements that deserve an article. Aymatth2 (talk) 21:44, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Communes are administrative units if I understand correctly, not populated places. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. I have reverted those additions, because the Communes of Burundi are not "populated places" which means cities/towns/villages. – FayenaticLondon 10:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to the wikipedia articles, each of the seven communes in Kirundo Province has a capital with the same name. The capital of the Commune of Bugabira is Bugabira. The capital of the Commune of Busoni is Busoni, and so on. Kirundo Province had a population of 628,256 as of the 2008 census. The 2018 population was estimated as 927,761, or about 130,000 per commune. Our coverage of this region is atrocious. Let's not make it even harder for editors to improve it.
This source describes Bugabira as a small town with colonial-era architecture. Bugabira commune is divided into the collines of Kiri, Kiyonza, Gaturanda, Rubuga, Kigina, Nyakarama, Nyamabuye, Nyabikenke, Rugasa, Gitwe and Kigoma.[2] Google maps shows Gaturanda as a region south of an arm of Lake Cyohoha South with labelled villages named Gaturanda, Rugondo and Rubuga. Gaturanda village looks substantial.[3] In 2012 the Global Water Partnership Eastern Africa gathered data related to drought in Rubuga, Kigina, and Gaturanda in Bugabira commune.[4] In August 2014 six houses were burned in Bugabira commune, including five in Gaturanda and one in Kigoma.[5] In April 2016 Gaston Sindimwo, President of Burundi, visited Gaturanda, which lies on the border with Rwanda, to ask the people not to stir up problems over refugees.[6] In 2023 Bugabira municipality issued a call for tenders for extension of the Gaturanda health center.[7].
Clearly these is enough information online to piece together sketches of the many populated places in Kirundo Province. The category structure should be ready for them. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The category structure should be made ready after there are enough articles, not before. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:07, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle: How many populated places are enough to justify the category for the province? Would it matter if they were all in the same commune? Aymatth2 (talk) 22:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Fayenatic london: You may want to chime in on this. An accepted number could save a lot of time on debates over lightly-populated categories. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:13, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aymatth2: "Five" is often mentioned at CFD as some editors' opinion of a sensible minimum. Personally, I would create a category for four. In a case like this, where additional stubs could easily be created, I would not bother nominating a category that had three members – but I would still not encourage you to create it for less than four. – FayenaticLondon 08:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is helpful. I have pumped up Kirundo Province a bit and may start some articles on features of the province. @Marcocapelle: Any thoughts? Aymatth2 (talk) 14:05, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have often included Commune and town in the same article for African countries. Makes sense for places in the developing world where there may not be an abundance of sources. Though I don't think we should really have the commune and town in the same article for places which cover an area of 235 square kilometres like Bugabira. Either way, it would be silly to delete a category simply because the region is underdeveloped. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As Aymatth2 admits, even the other 5 capitals of communes in Kirundo Province do not have articles yet. For some reason a famous cat-stroking Wikipedian created 50 stubs for Populated places in Bubanza Province 16 years ago, mostly villages, then apparently petered out part-way into Buriri Province. As and when articles are created for more settlements in this province, the category may then be re-created when it becomes justifiable, but Template:Kirundo Province is sufficient and appropriate for navigational needs at the moment; I have added Vumbi into it. – FayenaticLondon 12:44, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per Aymatth2. And populate..♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kirundo Province has more people than Alaska, which has at least 148 populated places. If Category:Populated places in Kirundo Province is deleted, and then a new editor decides to create articles for some of the places in the province, they will likely try to recreate the category. They will see a big red warning saying the Wikipedia community has decided there should not be such a category. I would just go ahead and recreate it anyway, but a newbie may be discouraged. That is the last thing we want to happen for an area which is so poorly covered. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Seven articles as of relisting. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Women's Premier League (cricket) franchise owners
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Oppose: It should be franchise owners, as the member pagers are franchise owners rather than team owners. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 14:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw proposal as per Vestrian24Bio. Gjs238 (talk) 19:33, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Propose upmerging Category:Military operations of the War of 1812 to Category:War of 1812
Nominator's rationale: 2 C, 0 P. WP:NARROWCAT. Both children are already in parent trees, or not all items in them involved Canada or the UK. NLeeuw (talk) 09:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:War of 1812 on the National Register of Historic Places
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Category:Washington, D.C., in the War of 1812
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Category:Holidays related to the War of 1812
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Category:Presidents General of the General Society of the War of 1812
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Nominator's rationale: 1 P. Target might not be viable either? NLeeuw (talk) 09:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Right, the target may be upmerged too. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aight, we'll make it a follow-up. NLeeuw (talk) 06:40, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category, no parent category:Military regiments exists. Mason (talk) 23:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but this will require purging too. For example, North Nova Scotia Highlanders is a military unit of Canada, not of Nova Scotia. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:09, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Mexican engineer stubs
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Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated stub category with no evidence of approval by Category:WikiProject Stub sorting. As always, stub categories are not free for just anybody to create on a whim, and require a minimum of 60 articles for entry -- but even after deep-scanning the Category:Mexican people stubs parent for any missed engineers, this still only has 17 articles in it. The stub template is fine, since it can always just sort articles into the target categories, but there would have to be at least 43 more articles before a dedicated category was warranted. Bearcat (talk) 19:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Muwahhidism
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Nominator's rationale: I propose the deletion of these categories because they make no sense. Muwahiddism isn't a separate branch (like Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Ahmadi, Quranism), it's not a fiqh school (like Hanafi/Shafii/Maliki/Hanbali divide among Sunnis), it's not an aqeeda school (like Athari/Maturidi/Ashari divide among Sunnis or Usuli/Akhbari divide among Twelver Shia) or anything.
Anyone who considers himself a Muslim (no matter what school he follows) considers himself a muwahhid (موحِّد) which means "a monotheist" in Arabic, literally a follower of tawhid (توحيد), monotheism, the central concept of Islam. It's just a term which is more often used as a self-description by Sunni Salafis to highlight their purism in contrast to anyone else (for example, Sufis have a practice of visiting graves of their sheikhs, Salafis see this act as a departure from the concept of tawhid in Islam. Although Sufis don't consider it as a violation of tawhid, they still see themselves as muwahhideen (monotheists). But anyone who claims to follow Islam, he by definition considers himself a muwahhid regardless). That's it. It's not a separate branch of Islam. It's just a "label" or a "trademark", so to speak. These categories are excessive and absolutely uncalled for. Sorry for bad formatting, by the way (I'm editing off my phone). Fixmaster (talk) 19:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, both articles in the tree are about Salafis and already categorized as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Socialist film directors
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Nominator's rationale:delete, intersection of unrelated characteristics. A few of these articles may be moved to a Category:Victims of McCarthyism, but that would be a very different discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom Mason (talk) 23:09, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Australian event managers
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Nominator's rationale: I'm on the fence about speedying this category, however, I'm not 100% sure that I've correctly mapped this category to the right parent of event planning. Mason (talk) 02:50, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Australian metal workers
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Nominator's rationale: There are three ways this category can be handled. Either rename this to match the parent category of Metalworkers, merge to Australian metalsmiths or rename to reflect that the intent of this category Metal manufacturing companies of Australia. Mason (talk) 02:48, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Artesian people
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Delete Who were the Artesian people? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:02, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just for info, they are people from Artois (but I am not certain if Artesian is correct English). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:18, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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@Doug butler Please make sure to have non-Australian parent categories, when you create similar categories. Mason (talk) 02:43, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
LOL didn't know LaundryPizza's activities included being an Australian leather merchant! NLeeuw (talk) 19:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Croat Roman Catholic clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina
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Propose deletingCategory:Croat Roman Catholic clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Ethnicization of entire tree of Category:Catholic clergy of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's a one editor's attempt to squeeze ethnic labels onto categories regarding one of the religious communities of the country. It should be checked if this issue was already dealt with once before. Note that other two communities (Orthodox and Islamic) are categorized only with their respective denomination labels not with their eventual ethnicities. ౪ Santa ౪99° 16:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I find it unhelpful that you have removed the parent categories. Now I can't easily see what the creator was trying to do, and whether it might be better to upmerge instead of delete. NLeeuw (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete All contents are likely in relevant parent categories or do not belong. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Croat Christian clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina
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Propose deletingCategory:Croat Christian clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Ethnicization of entire tree of Category:Catholic clergy of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's a one editor's attempt to squeeze ethnic labels onto categories regarding one of the religious communities of the country. It should be checked if this issue was already dealt with once before. Note that other two communities (Orthodox and Islamic) are categorized only with their respective denomination labels not with their eventual ethnicities. ౪ Santa ౪99° 16:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I find it unhelpful that you have removed the parent categories. Now I can't easily see what the creator was trying to do, and whether it might be better to upmerge instead of delete. NLeeuw (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Croat Greek Catholic clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina
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Propose deletingCategory:Croat Greek Catholic clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Ethnicization of entire tree of Category:Catholic clergy of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's a one editor's attempt to squeeze ethnic labels onto categories regarding one of the religious communities of the country. It should be checked if this issue was already delt with once before. Note that other two communities (Orthodox and Islamic) are categorized only with their respective denomination labels not with their eventual ethnicities. ౪ Santa ౪99° 16:29, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I find it unhelpful that you have removed the parent categories. Now I can't easily see what the creator was trying to do, and whether it might be better to upmerge instead of delete. NLeeuw (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Category has been emptied. LizRead!Talk! 18:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was only one page in that category, which had no place there anyway. ౪ Santa ౪99° 18:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then you could have tagged it CSD C1 instead of opening a discussion. LizRead!Talk! 22:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's part of this tree that we are discussing so I presumed it wouldn't hurt to present it all three cats together. ౪ Santa ౪99° 08:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Propose renaming Category:Painters of the Holy Land pre-1948 to Category:???????
Nominator's rationale: I'm not really sure what to do with this category name, because it isn't particularly helpful/descriptive. Is this painters from after 1948 who painted the "holy land" or is it painters of what the "holy land" looked like after 1948. Mason (talk) 13:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Upmerge to Category:Landscape painters for now, with prejudice, as "Holy Land" is a WP:POV term. If anyone wants to revive the catname in the future, it needs a compelling justification. NLeeuw (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Holy Land is very much a pov term. Mason (talk) 00:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on deletion/merging? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 15:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep' The nomination seems confused, perhaps fatally - the category is "PRE-1948" so it is not for "painters from after 1948 who painted the "holy land" or is it painters of what the "holy land" looked like after 1948." In the 19th-century context "Holy Land" is certainly the term that would have been used by the artists and their publics, & I don't think it is POV. If people want to delete it on those grounds they should think of alternatives, as it seems a valid category. Rather than being "an extremely narrow theme", it saw a big boom in the 19th century, partly as a branch of Orientalist painting. The category misses the most famous people, at least in the Anglosphere - where are William Holman Hunt, Edward Lear, James Tissot and many others? Johnbod (talk) 15:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Orientalist painters is a good point, the articles should be added to Category:Orientalist painters if applicable and if they are not in that tree yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see only one of the 5 described as "Orientalist" (and Marcocapelle just categorised then as such). James Tissot is indeed a name I recognise as painting events from the Hebrew Bible, though not necessarily "the Holy Land". E.g. File:Tissot The Women of Midian Led Captive by the Hebrews.jpg supposedly took place in southern Transjordan in what is now Saudi Arabia.
Moreover, a lot of them were apparently Jewish, while "Holy Land" is a Christian term. It's really difficult to shape a category around such a vague concept with the people currently and proposed to be in there.
I should add that "Holy Land" can be an appropriate term if the subject in question is entirely Christian, for, by and about Christians, e.g. Recovery of the Holy Land. No other phrase will describe that late medieval Christian literary genre that aptly. But for these painters...? I'm not convinced. NLeeuw (talk) 21:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's highly unclear where the events of Numbers 31 took place (if anwhere), but it seems more likely to be in modern Israel or Jordan than Saudi. In any case, Tissot spent time in Palestine to get his settings right, without I think getting as far as modern Saudi. I don't think that a century ago "Holy Land" was exclusively a Christian term - it would be rather ironic if it was. Johnbod (talk) 21:57, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Arabic Wikipedia ar:الأراضي المقدسة says: The Holy Land is a term used in the Christian and Jewish religions to refer to the holy places in Palestine, especially Jerusalem , Bethlehem, and Nazareth...
Hebrew Wikipedia he:ארץ הקודש says: Jews usually refer to the Land of Israel as the "Holy Land".[Source needed] However, the Bible refers to it explicitly as "holy land" in only one passage, the book of Zechariah, chapter 2, verse 16.
It doesn't seem like it is very common (at least not in the arguably main languages used by the most relevant religions and populations) to use the term "Holy Land" in Judaism or Islam. They may regard the land as sacred in some way, but calling it "Holy Land", capital H capital L, seems very much a Christian practice.
At any rate, if 19th-century and early 20th-century Orientalist is our scope, why not use the term Levant instead? It fits the period well, is broader than just Palesrael, and is not as politically and religiously charged. NLeeuw (talk) 01:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A fine piece of OR, & reliance on primary sources! You contradict your own research superbly there! "Jews usually refer to the Land of Israel as the "Holy Land"" and you conclude "It doesn't seem like it is very common (at least not in the arguably main languages used by the most relevant religions and populations) to use the term "Holy Land" in Judaism or Islam. They may regard the land as sacred in some way, but calling it "Holy Land", capital H capital L, seems very much a Christian practice." Wonderful! "Palestine" (much less controversial in this period, & the official name for some of it) would be better than "Levant". I don't mind splitting off the 2-3 proto-Israeli figures, who I agree are rather different. Johnbod (talk) 02:30, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well no, I'm not claiming this is in-depth research lol. Let's try something a bit more empirical:
Google Books search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "holy land": 2.110 results
Google Books search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "levant": 1.950 results
Google Scholar search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "holy land": 207 results
Google Scholar search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "levant": 223 results
Neither "holy land" or "levant" is particularly likely to be part of the title. Painting the Holy Land in the Nineteenth Century (1997) and Visions of the East: Influence of the Levant on the Italian Renaissance (2015) are two rare exceptions to this rule.
David Roberts is often mentioned, but more frequently with "Palestine" than with "Holy Land". His bio David Roberts (painter) uses the term "Holy Land" no fewer than 12 times, though usually in conjuction with other 'countries' around it: his travelogue The Holy Land, Syria, Idumea, Arabia, Egypt, and Nubia comprises about half of those mentions.
Gustav Bauernfeind (not yet in this category) is more usually associated with "Levant"; in fact, his bio has Gustav Bauernfeind#Painting the Levant, mentioning 'the Levant, the Orient, Ottoman Palestine, Jerusalem, Lebanon, Syria, the Holy Land'. Seems to me that Levant is the broadest, most encompassing and inclusive term of the two (or three if we count 'Palestine'). As it is broader, it could also include paintings of certain biblical narratives that are set in Transjordan (such as the one of Tissot referenced above), which may or may not be included under the term "Holy Land". It might be a good idea to add a catdesc that gives a description of what we mean by 'Levant', and the term 'Holy Land' does seem fitting there (amongst the other regions/countries I mention in this comment) instead of in the catname itself. Maybe that's an acceptable compromise? NLeeuw (talk) 13:49, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Something like catname: Category:Orientalist painters of the Levant
Might that work? NLeeuw (talk) 13:58, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It might (moving out the proto-Israelis), but I don't understand why people keep talking about "landscape" painters/paintings. Some, like Lear and Roberts, mostly were, but others, like Hunt and Tissot, concentrated on history paintings of Biblical narrative subjects, obviously many with landscape backgrounds. I'd still prefer Palestine to Levant. But I think it is important that we explicitly restrict the category to those who had actually spent time in the area, rather than working things up in Europe. Johnbod (talk) 17:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well because currently one of the parent categories is Category:Landscape painters. If that is incorrect, we should purge that parent. NLeeuw (talk) 10:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Johnbod's reasoning. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Painters of pre-1948 Palestine. Some artists in this period may have have called it the holy land, others will have not, but that term is certainly POV. It was historically and geographically known as Palestine pre-1948, and this is how academic literature presents it, e.g.: Imagined Homeland: landscape painting in Palestine in the 1920sIskandar323 (talk) 04:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Palestine" could work as an alternative, certainly for the British mandate period. Johnbod also preferred Palestine over Levant. For me Rename to Category:Painters of pre-1948 Palestine is a second choice (my primary choice remains Upmerging, see above). This could work as a compromise. NLeeuw (talk) 23:11, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:01, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I am still not sure if this is about painters from "Holly Land" or painters of the "Holly Land", where the "Holly Land" is the label for a theme not a country or state, and I am reading through this discussion for the second time?--౪ Santa ౪99° 14:32, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Santasa99: considering the articles in this category it is certainly meant as "of", not as "from". Marcocapelle (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Polish social activists of the Prussian partition
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Nominator's rationale: This is a random mix of people who aren't activists. Purge the category and leave in actual activists. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also I'm not too sure about it but maybe rename to "Pro-Palestinian activists". Any other suggestion would be helpful; this one seems rather vague. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support rename to "Pro-Palestinian activists", if only because that new name would be shorter and simpler, yet also straight to the point. AHI-3000 (talk) 15:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll wait for some consensus here before I proceed with the subcategories. Honestly, going through them, I don't think any of these people in any of these categories were checked to see if they actually were activists for Palestinian solidarity, particularly given a number of these aren't pro-Palestinian but rather anti-Israeli. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would prefer keeping this category, I should add, since there is a big Palestinian movement and activists who are pro-Palestinian. I just think we should be careful who to put in. Some of these "pro-Palestinian" people aren't pro-Palestinian at all. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think renaming it to "Advocates for Palestinian Solidarity" would be best. NesserWiki (talk) 02:50, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support doing something, but mixed on the alternative rename. I think that the "Pro-Palestinian activists" are indeed a more specific subgroup that are definitely nested within Anti-racist activists. Perhaps splitting or nesting/reorganizing to acknowledge that there are also activists for Palestinian civil rights etc. idk 🤷 It's really complicated.Mason (talk) 18:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison, it is quite complicated, you're right. I'm not too sure about myself but, IMO and as you have said yourself, "Pro-Palestinian" is less vague and more definable than "Activists for Palestinian solidarity". Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fair point. (To be clear, I'm not opposed to the rename if that's were consensus goes. ) I've started cleaning up the ethnic/religious intersections with the group in the hope that I'll have some inspiration. Mason (talk) 19:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Purge: a removal of articles about people who weren't activists is a no-brainer. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: No clear consensus on rename. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LaundryPizza03, I would say leave the rename out for now. That can be done in a seperate Cfd. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Qwerfjkl, as nominator, you can close this as purge non-activists. I will open a seperate Cfd on renaming, along with its subcategories. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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They do sound a bit like containercats, but if we treat them like that, it forces us to either upmerge articles, or diffuse articles and create small cats, for which we would need to upmerge them again, but two levels. Hence a bit of pragmatism seems called for until we've got more options. NLeeuw (talk) 06:26, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Invasions of the Republic of Genoa
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Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. Dual upmerge for now per WP:MFN. Category:Invasions of Italy does not apply, since Italy as a state did not exist at the time, and Corsica is not part of Italy today. NLeeuw (talk) 09:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Pretenders to the Albanian throne
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Delete, everything said in the list discussion applies here as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fictional cafeteria workers
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Nominator's rationale: This is a rather small and narrow category with no real-life equivalent. We don't need a hyperspecific category for literally every job. Edit: Actually it should probably just be deleted, when you remove Chef from South Park, who is already under "Fictional chefs", there is nothing pertinent here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - as Chef (South Park) is already in a reasonable subcat for the merge target. All that remains after that is a redirect and an article that should not be on the category tree. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fictional extraterrestrial royalty
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There is no need to merge Category:Fictional extraterrestrial royalty to Category:Fictional royalty because the only contents are a redirect; Category:Fictional extraterrestrial princesses, which is also in this CfD; and Category:Galactic emperors, which is already in a different subcategory of the target. I don't think the Galactic emperors is in another subcategory of Category:Fictional extraterrestrial characters, so we can merge there. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Mythological male/female royalty
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Nominator's rationale: Yet another WP:NARROWCAT pointless category. This is such a narrow intersection (mythical + gender + royalty) that a category is not necessary. I don't believe it should be merged to "fictional" as myth and fiction are separate. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nom is right that having categories with just 2 subcategories isn't very useful for navigation, but we should upmerge to all parents. NLeeuw (talk) 06:29, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fiction may overlap with mythology in some cases but the two are distinct concepts. Mythology can also contain embellished or rumored versions of real events. The Bible has mythological elements, but most would not agree it is a pure "work of fiction". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as nominated. Concur with nominator about the distinction between mythology and fiction. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms economists
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Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks
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Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:NARROWCAT, very detailed categorization by religion, occupation, and parallel kingdoms/dynasties in a relatively short period. The Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms lasted from 907 to 960. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all per nom for now without prejudice. Glad my suggestion some time ago is taken up. NLeeuw (talk) 09:10, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Socialists by occupation
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Nominator's rationale: I'm not sure how helpful it is to have a socialists by occupation category. Mason (talk) 04:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, redundant category layer with only three subcategories. I also wonder whether we should keep two of the three subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:History of Lithuania (1569–1795)
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Nominator's rationale:merge, the two categories cover nearly the same period. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 19:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - early modern age in Lithuania according to my knowledge starts a century before 1569 (if we take 1453 as the starting year of early modern age). Seems a bit much to make out those to be identical.--+JMJ+ (talk) 22:58, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Around 1500 is most often mentioned as the start of the early modern age and articles about the period between 1500 and 1569 can still be put in the early modern category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:54, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:55, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Marco. "1453" is a bit arbitrary, as it takes the fall of Constantinople as the measure of world history, instead of a rather minor event that was bound to happen to a Byzantine Empire in terminal decay for centuries. "1500" may also be arbitrary as a random round number, but at least it does not assign an arbitrary value of significance to any event, and it has been a commonly used convention in historiography. For Lithuania, of course, 1569 is much more significant, but given that we've already got 2 categories and it doesn't make sense to create separate categories for 1500 to 1568, and 1796 to 1799. NLeeuw (talk) 06:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:PAW Patrol (franchise)
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I will note that Category:PAW Patrol is the originally-proposed merge target. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or reverse merge, too little content for two categories. Technical note, if it is going to be a downmerge then parent categories have to be added to the target manually. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:41, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Members of the League of Women Voters
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 02:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many siblings contain (just) activists, which is much more defining than membership. We might rename and purge this one as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on renaming and purging? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 02:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lean towards merge. Given that it's not very defining by itself. Mason (talk) 00:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose given that both nominee and target are very large categories, and no navigational value seems to be served by throwing them together. NLeeuw (talk) 19:35, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Coke Studio (franchise)
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Nominator's rationale: Probably unnecessary disambiguation. This is missing a parent article about the franchise as a whole, or the original Brazilian series. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or reverse merge, it is unclear why these two categories exist next to each other. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Character songs
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Nominator's rationale: Category hardly has any entries, with Megalovania being more of a theme song than "sung by the voice actor", of which there is none. The current category members could be merged to parent categories if they aren't in them already. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, only one of the two non-main articles is about something that actually belongs. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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June 11
Category:Cute 'em ups by series
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Merge, WP:SMALLCAT is no longer active, but still this is a redundant category layer with only two subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Kurdish physicists
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Narrow intersection for small category, which isn't helpful for navigation. There's not even a Kurdish biologist category, so why would we need a subfield? Mason (talk) 23:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Jeremy Jordan (singer) albums
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Category:Medieval Kurdish philosophers
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to diffuse the Kurdish philosophy category by period. There are only 9 people in the entire tree (at the time of nomination). Mason (talk) 23:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Rename all children of Category:Middle Ages by country to Medieval history of Fooland per precedent Early modern history of Fooland, and indirectly the Military history of Fooland precedents, as well as consistency (an indirect WP:C2C argument) with sibling categories Category:Ancient history by country, Category:Early modern period by country, and Category:Modern history by country. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 25#Early modern period, where we decided to rename all categories to Early modern history of Fooland. Renaming could avoid a lot of anachronisms about modern countries that did not yet exist as such, or not with their modern-day borders, or at least not under their modern names, in the Middle Ages. It's also a lot like how we are currently reframing battles in (former country/region) to military history of (current country/region). Although it has relatively few main articles following this formula (such as Medieval history of Nepal, or the variation History of medieval Tunisia, History of medieval Cumbria, or Political history of medieval Karnataka), it has been found that article titles using the formula ...in the Middle Ages or ...in antiquity are usually not about countries, but social or cultural phenomena, and that the formula Ancient history of Fooland or History of ancient Fooland is very common, leading to a relatively strong basis in the article space (an indirect WP:C2D argument). Therefore, the result of the preliminary discussion was Option 1: rename to Medieval history of Fooland. All nominees will be tagged as such (but options for alternative target names remain open if participants can provide compelling rationales).
Preliminary discussion on renaming options
There may also be a need to harmonise the categories further according to either one of the following options:
Medieval Fooland: one option is to keep the current category names, but seek to change the main article titles instead, per a small minority of main articles, such as Medieval India, Medieval Croatia, Medieval Armenia, Medieval Jerusalem, Medieval Corsica, and some derivatives like Norman and medieval London or Europeans in Medieval China, Slavery in medieval Europe. This would save us a lot of trouble renaming categories, it just adds to our trouble of renaming articles, which is a different projectspace. And although it is more concise, this option does not have my preference, because it makes the anachronism problem much worse. It will not be consistent with our recent renaming of Early modern history of Fooland either, and we might have to revisit it. But for the sake of completeness, I do offer it for your consideration.
Other options???
I will add targets to the nomination when the preferred target name becomes a bit more clear in the discussion. NLeeuw (talk) 19:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this big nomination and elaborate rationale. Option 3 is clearly a no-go for reasons already outlined. Initially I thought I'd have a clear preference for option 1 but at second thought I no longer see a good reason why, they each have their own pros. So either option 1 or 2. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:47, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, and thank you for paving the way with the early modern period precedent, as well as voicing your support earlier today when I asked your advice. I also thought this was gonna be a lot easier beforehand, but there is a substantial number of Fooland in the Middle Ages articles that gave me pause. In the end, the article space should always be prioritised over the category space, and WP:C2D will almost always be a stronger argument than WP:C2C. So I've currently got a slight preference for option 2 over option 1, but it's close. I hope others can persuade us to a better perspective. NLeeuw (talk) 22:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: One reason why the ...in the Middle Ages might be so popular, whereas ...in the early modern period is essentially unheard of, might be because we often speak and think of the Middle Ages as a "place" rather than a time. Say "Middle Ages" or "medieval", and someone else may soon imagine castles and catapults, convents and chronicles, commerce and crusaders. But if someone says "early modern", I struggle a lot more to paint a picture for myself of what that time looked like, and to imagine it as a "place" where people walked around. Strange thing how that works linguistically. Not sure if I'm the only one? But that might help to explain why these articles and categories are titled so differently. NLeeuw (talk) 23:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm no other input? I guess we'll have to wait for relisting or I'll have to start tagging pages... At the moment, option 2 seems most promising due to its strong basis in the article space. Many could be C2D'd if we wanted to. The other articles could be BOLDly moved per TITLECON... But I prefer to have a discussion, as we still to justify ignoring the early modern history of Fooland precedent which Marcocapelle set. NLeeuw (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If we're looking for more standardisation across periods of history, we may have to think about more than only the medieval and early modern periods. Within Category:History by country there are also Category:Ancient history by country (with its subcat Category:Roman history of modern countries and territories) and Category:Modern history by country (with the subcat Category:Contemporary history by country) – and Category:National prehistories and Category:Renaissance by country, which I'm thinking may legitimately be outliers, as prehistory isn't history and "Renaissance" refers to movements in the arts and culture. From that standpoint Option 1 (for the non-outliers) is looking most viable to me at the moment, with the possible exception of the Roman subcat. Perhaps in that scenario subcats (Roman Fooland, Fooland in the High Middle Ages) could be treated differently from parent cats (Ancient history of Fooland, Medieval history of Fooland).
After thinking about this some more, I've realised that the Renaissance category tree should be within the early modern category tree. I've also found lots of instances of Prehistory of Fooland as opposed to Prehistoric Fooland (which weren't previously in Category:National prehistories), so perhaps an Early modern history of Fooland–style naming schema can work for prehistory after all. Ham II (talk) 17:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. Well, at the very least the catname should be clarified. Category:Prehistory by country? Parents Category:History by country and Category:Prehistory by region suggest catname Prehistory by country as a logical intersection. (The catname "national prehistories" had me think they meant 'the history of nation X before it became a nation-state (in the 19th century)', or something like that. But they do mean prehistory in the sense of "before the time of written sources". Just an odd catname for it). NLeeuw (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree. Ham II (talk) 20:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. I've speedied it. That's a start. NLeeuw (talk) 14:58, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Ancient history of" works much better to get country-themed articles. Lots of articles are names "Ancient history of Fooland" or "History of ancient Fooland". Option 1 has a very strong basis in the article space, unlike with "Medieval history of" / "History of medieval". Option 2 seems to be strongly tied to countries "in the Middle Ages", but very weakly tied to countries "in antiquity".
Option 3, "Ancient Fooland", has similar problems to option 2: it's often not about countries. And if it is, it may sometimes be considered anachronistic. E.g. "Ancient France' seems wrong, but with "Ancient Gaul" we probably have no problem (although "Ancient" seems redundant: we assume Gaul to be places in antiquity). "Ancient Russia" or "Ancient Ukraine" are somewhat dubious, but "Ancient Rus' " is sometimes used (although it refers to Middle Ages rather than antiquity, and the preferred term is "Kievan Rus'"). Similarly "Ancient England"... why should we call it "England" before there are any Angles there? Ancient history of England seems much more tenable, because that way we're less trying to force "England" into antiquity where it wasn't yet known as such. And so on.
Overall, I think I'm starting to favour option 1 Ancient/Medieval/Early modern history of Fooland for all catnames now.
A few exceptions may be made, especially for countries / societies / cultures which were already called by that name at the time. I don't think we should rename articles Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece to History of ancient Rome and History of ancient Greece, or something. That seems superfluous, especially with Rome. But for countries that didn't exist yet, Ancient history of Fooland seems the way to go, both as maim articles titles and as catnames NLeeuw (talk) 15:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm leaning option 1 now: Ancient / Medieval / Early modern history of Fooland. It is the least ambiguous and anachronistic, and therefore most justifiable. It has a pretty strong basis in category and precedent, and some presence in the main article space (especially ancient history of Fooland).
Option 2 seems best fitted for subjects that aren't about countries, but social and cultural phenomena. Apart from several Fooland in the Middle Ages articles, it does not have a strong basis in the article space, and virtually no basis in the category space.
Option 3 has decent bases in both, but is most at risk of anachronisms. We seem to agree already that this is a no-go (also given precedent Early modern history of Fooland). Only given exceptions such as Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece need not be changed. NLeeuw (talk) 01:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I've now tagged all nominees with the Option 1 target name as a result of the preliminary discussion. I'd like to thank Marcocapelle and Ham II for their input. I've got two further questions at the moment:
1. Should we leave the current names as redirects as soon as the proposal is approved? That would help editors (and readers) navigate and edit, and prevent re-creation and thus duplication. The current names often correspond to several main articles and links, so leaving redirects seems appropriate. Thoughts?
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:rename and purge, this is follow-up on many earlier renames, and there is e.g. parent Category:Early Germanic warfare. Ancient Germanic peoples is a commonly used grouping in the Roman era but not so much in the middle ages. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Former synagogues Nebraska
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Nominator's rationale: Category should be renamed to match others in Category:Former synagogues in the United States by state Pretzelles (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy rename per both C2A and C2C. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: As the originator of the category, I clearly made a typo. Thanks for picking it up. Rangasyd (talk) 08:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
’’’support rename’’’ —-W2024 (talk) 16:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Former synagogues Wisconsin
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Nominator's rationale: Category should be renamed to match others in Category:Former synagogues in the United States by state Pretzelles (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy rename per both C2A and C2C. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: As the originator of the category, I clearly made a typo. Thanks for picking it up. Rangasyd (talk) 08:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
‘’’support rename’’’ —-W2024 (talk) 16:31, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Bond (string quartet)
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Nominator's rationale: With subcategories only for the quartet's albums and their covers, the eponymous category is unnecessary per WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 15:56, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Battles involving the Nizari Ismaili state
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Nominator's rationale: 1 P. WP:MFN. Can't find other battles, so merging to wars seems the best option. NLeeuw (talk) 15:19, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or delete, the latter because the article seems to imply that the Nizari Ismaili state was not really involved. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Central March
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Nominator's rationale: 1 P. Just delete, not useful for navigation. Main article Central March is already in both parents, and the only article Wadih al-Siqlabi is a biography that fits neither parent. NLeeuw (talk) 15:15, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. In addition, governor of the Central March seems to be a relatively minor position, not contributing much to the notability of the subject of the article. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose. The category is part of a wider category family on governments of historical states. What exactly is the gain of deleting it and upmerging, that is enough to counterbalance the loss in categorization? There are likely even more articles already on WP that can be added there, and certainly still more that can be written, as the topic is under-represented. Constantine ✍ 16:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Easy navigation. NLeeuw (talk) 19:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. The two articles aren't really about government of the Ayyubid Sultanate, they are about the outskirts of it. If anything, they are about social geography rather than about government, but having them simply in the main category is even better. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Government of the Samanid Empire
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Propose deletingCategory:Government of the Samanid Empire (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 1 C. Just delete as a redundant layer, while manually moving Ispahsalar (only article) to Category:Samanid Empire; only child is already in Category:People from the Samanid Empire. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 2#Category:Government of the Seljuk Empire (also Timurid, Ghaznavid, Aq Qoyunlu govts). NLeeuw (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, possibly move the article to Category:Samanid Empire but that is not even very necessary because the article is not specifically about the Samanid Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah it's not even necessary to move the article, but I wouldn't object to it. NLeeuw (talk) 19:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Ambassadors of the Republic of Venice to the Kingdom of Sardinia
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Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. WP:MFN. There are many, many underpopulated (1 to 4 P) ambassador cats like this created in February–May 2024 by the same person. Others were created longer ago. NLeeuw (talk) 14:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The category is not arbitrary and has clearly room of expansion, as the Republic of Venice and the Kingdom of Sardinia overlapped by several centuries. If the category exists, articles will be added to it. If it is deleted, they won't; not many WP members are actively engaged in categorization. If a reader, like myself, is interested in the bilateral relations between Venice and specific other states, why should they go hunting in more generic categories? This equally applies to the other 'underpopulated categories' mentioned in the nomination. I really don't understand what the project gains from deletions like this. Constantine ✍ 16:12, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of categories is easy navigation between articles. Categories in categories in categories which contain only 1 article do not ease navigation. NLeeuw (talk) 19:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, per nom. One may be interested in this intersection, sure, but if there aren't any other articles then the most closely related articles are in the more general categories and merging helps navigation to them. Of course, no objection to recreate the category when some more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. There categories are indeed extremely underpopulated, and often isolated from where readers expect to see them (somewhere in the modern country category typically). Mason (talk) 22:24, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:SaarLorLux Open
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Category:Government of the Almohad Caliphate
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Merge per nom. There isn't any topic article about government and biography subcats are perfectly fine under people. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Government of the Khwarazmian Empire
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MergeDelete per nom. There isn't any topic article about government and the biography subcat is perfectly fine under people. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:26, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to what? I'm proposing to Just delete. NLeeuw (talk) 23:07, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:People by ethnic descent
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Nominator's rationale: These categories are for people of different ethnic descents. There is nothing here specific to any particular continent. Additionally, the names might wrongly imply that this is the person's own ethnicity when, in reality, it refers to their ancestors' ethnicity. Aldij (talk) 12:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the categories are already included through the nationality descent category. However, I agree to the duplicate merge as well. Aldij (talk) 07:11, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok so that part of the merge needs to happen manually. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aldij is a sock, now blocked. NLeeuw (talk) 23:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Marcocapelle, with categories added to the continental descent tree where not redundant. For example, Category:People of Benga descent concerns an ethnic group that spans multiple countries in Africa. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Category:People of Oceanian descent by ethnicity and Category:People of South American descent by ethnicity were speedy deleted per G5. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Well-spotted. Then also Just delete from me as nom. NLeeuw (talk) 23:10, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Gilgit-Baltistan history stubs
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Nominator's rationale:merge, poorly populated stub categories and we usually do not have stub history categories by Pakistani province. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Events at the Amway Center
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Nominator's rationale: I don't believe Wikipedia categorizes events by venue? Gjs238 (talk) 15:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Wikipedia does, in fact, categorize events by venue. Abhiramakella (talk) 08:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Abhiramakella: Category:Events by venue does not exist, so you need to be a bit more specific about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per Marcocapelle. Gjs238 (talk) 12:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete template and merge category but to Category:Cricket ground stubs; do not also merge to the original North American target, as pages should all be within national sub-cats of that one. Implement by replacing stub link with ((Cricket-ground-stub)). – FayenaticLondon 09:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on FL's proposal? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:49, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Fayenatic london. As said, pages should mostly be directly in a country stub category. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Network is now defunct Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete if Mvcg66b3r can provide reliable sources for this claim. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:24, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lean keep. But why delete. Being defunct isn't a reason to delete. We'd have to delete Category:Roman Empire, using that logic. Mason (talk) 23:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My point was the OP's argument was not compelling by itself because that would mean that anything defunct would be worth deleting. (I picked the Roman Empire because it was obviously worth keeping, but would fail using op's argument) Mason (talk) 05:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lean keep Main article This TV does not say anywhere explicitly that the network is defunct, just that its website went down in May 2024. Secondly, this category has a main article, List of This TV affiliates, implying that this subject qualifies for a stand-alone page. Personally, I think that article is poorly sourced, and perhaps it should be AfD'd, which would open the way for a deletion of this category. But until that happens, I don't see a compelling reason to delete the category just yet. NLeeuw (talk) 15:32, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Propose renaming Category:Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award to Category:Recipients of the Wesley L. McDonald Distinguished Statesman and Stateswoman of Aviation Award
Nominator's rationale: Not even sure if this meets the criteria for a defining characteristic. Gjs238 (talk) 19:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is probably the most prominent award for civil aviation that exists in the United States. It more than a defining characteristic. Nayyn (talk) 11:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on deletion? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you deleting this?
It discourages people from contributing to Wikipedia when you delete for absolutely no reason. Nayyn (talk) 18:35, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If this award category should be deleted under those parameters you should then delete categories such as Category:Piolet d'Or winnersNayyn (talk) 14:53, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is one of the most highest honors for civil aviation. I am not sure why it fails the WP:OCAWARD criteria Nayyn (talk) 14:17, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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June 10
Category:Gaborone task force
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Nominator's rationale: only contains an empty subcat; Wikipedia:WikiProject Botswana/Gaborone task force was G7ed Queen of Hearts (🏳️⚧️ • 🏳️🌈) 22:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok i’ll g7 this too 48JCLTALK 22:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Although this category's name was copied from the article Fan trasnlation of video games, this category lists individual games that were fan-translated. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:55, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Existence of an unofficial version is a trivial characteristic. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Ex-Muslims
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Nominator's rationale:merge, redundant category layer with only an eponymous category and a subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The main article is Ex-Muslims. ”apostate is a pejorative label and is meant to reflect the sense of betrayal felt by those who remain members of the religion”. [8] --Thi (talk) 20:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok does the category exist because of discontent with the name of the parent category? Apostasy in Islam is commonly defined as the abandonment of Islam by a Muslim, in thought, word, or through deed. There is nothing pejorative about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Apostasy" is per se pejorative. Not sure how you didn't know that. Jclemens (talk) 02:53, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In any case it is a redundant fork. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:05, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale:delete for now, single-article category, which is not helpful for nomination. No need to merge, the article is already in Category:Algerian former Christians. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:36, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Propose deletingCategory:Lists of film festivals in Oceania (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Category which exists solely to hold one list at the same level of differentiation. This would be fine if one or more Oceanian countries had their own separate standalone lists independently of the continent-wide list, but none do, so the list does not need an "eponymous" category just to recursively contain itself if there are no supplementary sublists for specific Oceanian countries to file along with it. The list, further, was left double-filed in all of the parent categories alongside this, so no upmerging is needed. Bearcat (talk) 15:24, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Inline with article names. GMH Melbourne (talk) 14:27, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not all of them held the title of commissioner. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:45, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Lists of awards received by Ugandan writer
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Delete per nom. Cos(X + Z) 18:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Lists of awards received by Ugandan film director
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Category:Society of Kurdistan
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The result of the discussion was:keep. The only proponent is a blocked sock; anyone else is welcome to renominate this category if they wish to pursue this further. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 15:09, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Similar categories in Category:Society by ethnicity are named in this manner. Kurdistan is a very roughly defined region. Please note that the category was previously moved speedy from 'Kurdish society'. Aldij (talk) 08:44, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Kurdistan is a region, not an ethnicity. The nom has been blocked, and they also changed the parent category from Category:Society by region to Society by ethnicity Mason (talk) 21:32, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Battles in Spain 2
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Category:Aunty Disco Project
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Nominator's rationale: With the albums appropriately categorized by Category:Albums by artist and the only other article a discography page, this is an unnecessary eponymous category. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 03:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Duplicative with Category:Unreal Engine games. No merge required, as all members of the nominated category are in the original already. Each version of Unreal Engine is not independently notable or distinct. -- ferret (talk) 22:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree because Category:Unreal Engine games is very large and spans more than two decades of video games. There isn't much use in knowing that a game was made with "just" Unreal Engine from the point of view of someone reading about the game compared to knowing that it was made in Unreal 5 which tells you a lot more about what you can expect from the game both in terms of graphics and gameplay (that is, within a given specific genre). Similarly, there isn't much use in knowing a game was made in "just" Unreal from the point of view of someone reading about Unreal itslef as nobody develops games in "Unreal Engine." Consider also that the Video Game infobox Engine field usually has the Unreal Engine version listed, not just "Unreal Engine", because just listing "Unreal Engine" is not so useful. Each version of Unreal is a separate piece of software. Also, not all members of the nominated category are in the original already (at least at the time that I added some of them).
As a separate but related point, I feel that all versions of Unreal Engine should be separate articles on Wikipedia. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 22:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I propose instead of deleting the category, it should be a sub-category under Category:Unreal Engine games. In fact, I think the all the pages under this category also should be sorted by Unreal Engine type, i.e. UE1, UE2, UE3 and UE4. This rationale is made since the list of games for each Unreal Engine version is deleted, and there should be categories that list by version to clean up Category:Unreal Engine games. Otherwise the alternative is to simply delete Category:Unreal Engine games. ~ Limyx826 (talk) 19:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Criteria for categories are stricter than for lists so if lists per version were deleted, categories per version should certainly be deleted as well. Then Category:Unreal Engine games suffices. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:DEFINING requires that reliable sources consistently describe the games as having this property. WP:TRIVIALCAT may also be applicable. Can you please point me to the discussion about the — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcocapelle (talk • contribs)
Thanks. I can see how WP:DEFINING is applicable here (even though there're enough sources to model this in Wikidata, like ModDB, those are mostly unreliable in enwiki). But then I don't see how the same logic is not applicable to the general Category:Unreal Engine games (since the List of Unreal Engine games was deleted). To me it looks like either we should delete most of the engines' categories, or we can keep separate categories for Unreal Engine versions. Whenever a media covers game engines, it usually specifies UE version (Stormgate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Sin City, etc).And I don't see how WP:TRIVIALCAT is applicable. The difference between Unreal Engine 1 and Unreal Engine 5 is very significiant, both from user's and developer's perspective, so in my opinion it actually helps the navigation.There were no inwiki discussion about splitting the category as far as I can remember. We discussed some aspects of it on Russian WPVG Discord server, but that's probably it. A particle for world to form (talk) 06:25, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The separate versions pretty much characterize the games, comparing to just "Unreal Engine", given its existence for many years. The UE versions are quite different from each other, both in terms of development and end result. They all have their own separate version tree as well, so I would even say to some extent these are the different engines under the same brand name. The versions are also extensively covered in the sources, just as the versions for individual games are often supported by sources and are listed in the infobox. There may not be enough material for individual articles (needs to be verified), but there is enough material to split up this clogged category. The difference between the versions is enormous and obvious to anyone who follows the industry, and generally useful to any reader. Practically, you'll have little use for the information that Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (video game) and Tekken 8 were made on the same engine. But looking at them as separate versions is already a defining characteristic - WP:DEFINING. The distinct version categories also correspond better to WP:CATDD, which explicitly states to use the most specific categories.Therefore, I support splitting c:Unreal Engine games into 5 subcategories with gradual moving of articles to corresponding versions and turning the main category into a meta category. On Russian Wikipedia it really looks much cleaner and more informative than the endless listing we have now. Solidest (talk) 05:02, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 02:31, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Either we get rid of the "Unreal Engine games" category entirely, or this should stay. Unreal Engine 5 is absolutely distinct from something like the original Unreal Engine, to the point that it's essentially two separate pieces of software sharing a similar name. The argument that they are the same thing doesn't hold water from either a technical or a visual standpoint. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between gender, criminal, and specific kind of crime committed. I don't think that this holds up under WP:EGRS. Mason (talk) 03:06, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Split There is no main article for female drug traffickers, which is a good indication it's not defining. If someone can prove otherwise and/or make a main article, I would think otherwise. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not at all what I'm implying. AHI-3000 (talk) 16:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Can any of the opposers (@AHI-3000@Dimadick) make the case that this specific intersection with gender and type of crime is actually defining per EGRS? No one is saying that crime and gender isn't defining, but I struggle to see how this specific crime type is defining. Mason (talk) 00:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: For those in favor of getting rid of the category, what should it be replaced with? Single merge? Double merge? Split? For those in favor of keeping the category, evidence that this is defining? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 02:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't realize most were already under gangsters, so I can support the single merge. As long as this category is removed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:20, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Single merge sounds good to me. Mason (talk) 20:27, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Accidents during the New Year celebrations
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The result of the discussion was:delete. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 15:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Accidents during the New Year celebrations (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Non defining itnersection between day of the year and nature of the event Mason (talk) 02:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Only one article, and no parallel subcategories. We also Category:Attacks during the New Year celebrations, which is being speedy renamed to remove a misused definite article. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:44, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Fireworks accidents during New Year celebrations could be a good topic article but victims are not individually notable. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category that is effectively is the same. Mason (talk) 19:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose capitalisation: move Category:Ipswich town preachers to Category:Ipswich Town Preachers. When this category entered the jigsaw world of signs, known as wikipedia, it was unclear whether the category should use uppercase letters to initialise not merely Ipswich, but also "Town Preacher". The Oxford Academic use lower case, but local historian John Blatchly goes for uppercase. I think the advantage of this that it is clear that this refers to people who held a formal role, rather than a simply being a wikipedia category that lists Clergy from Ipswich. Often Ipswich Corporation appointed people from elsewhere. Bearing in mind the significance of some of those who occupied this role such as Samuel Ward (minister) or Cave Beck, it would seem appropriate to have such a category. I feel that capitalisation will indicate the category is more formal/historical. Leutha (talk) 12:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question: I've reverted your unexplained removal of this category from the proposed merge target. How is this category not Clergy from Ipswich? And why is the current category parented by 17th-century clergy. Mason (talk) 12:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As can be seen from the discussion above, the category is quite formal. Many people filing this role were not from Ipswich: Samuel Ward (minister) was from Haverhill, Matthew Lawrence (preacher) was from North Lincolnshire, Cave Beck was from London. The references for the Town Preachers are largely consistent from 1604, G. R.Clarke gives a list of 7 before 1604 in his 1830 The history and description of the town and borough of Ipswich: 343 . However only one appears in Blatchly's list in his book on The Town Library of Ipswich (1989): 177 . Any suggestions as regards how to handle the earlier individuals such as Roger Kelke, the Marian exile who returned to become Ipswich Town Preacher from 1560 until 1575, according to Blatchly? ibid : 4 . Leutha (talk) 15:56, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok... so it sounds like this information would be better served as a list. Categories are supposed to be there to help people navigate between pages. I would *strongly* encourage you to look at how other categories handle clergy from a region.
It seems like you are under the impression that People from a city is only for people who were born from the city. That's too narrow of a definition, as Bishops of CITY/ diocese are placed within the clergy from CITY/REGION etc category. And, so if I am understanding your very long comment, you're added the parent because there's only one example of of a precher from before the 17th century, but you don't speak to what about after the 17th century. Mason (talk) 00:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, clergy is usually a formal role, that is not a good reason for a split. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:55, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as it's now clear that Ipswich Town Preacher was a formal appointment by the Corporation. As for the current lowercase category name format, this is correct per MOS:JOBTITLE. – FayenaticLondon 10:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 23:57, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. No need to diffuse highschools within a specific populated place and status (Defunct vs current; note that one of the targets is currently being speedy renamed from Category:Former high schools in Japan) Mason (talk) 14:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was apparently missing the difference between "Tokyo" and "Japan" :-( Marcocapelle (talk) 19:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Tokyo is equivalent to a prefecture, not a city, in a manner like a U.S. state. I'm not sure if this would make the category more viable, or if there should still be a split? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 23:51, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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Category:Battles by location in Greece
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Category:Housing rights activists from Detroit
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Category:Acquired citizenship
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:withdrawn. Will reopen in the event the original Cfd goes through. (non-admin closure)Omnis Scientia (talk) 01:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Drake–Kendrick Lamar feud
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Specifies what's in the category The Midnite Wolf (talk) 18:58, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
not sure this is a good idea. because some things might not be a song for example the New Ho King restaurant which got very famous because of the feud. there was also a pizzeria, and if more things comes up "songs" would not make sense Freedun (yippity yap) 00:21, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I will note that Freedun has been blocked as a sock (in other words, I consider this unopposed as of now). Given that there is a potential objection, I will relist, but in a week if there are no further comments I would close this as soft rename. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 22:01, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this decision. As long as there are articles about the feud that are not about songs, having the parent category will be pretty handy. RPI2026F1 (talk) 00:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also support a partial merge per Relinus, considering there are multiple articles in this category that aren't songs, a full rename wouldn't be appropriate. ULPS(talk • contribs) 16:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Internet technology companies by Bangladesh
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:speedy delete. CSD G7 LizRead!Talk! 20:23, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Internet technology companies by Bangladesh (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Typo for Internet technology companies of Bangladesh Greatder (talk) 18:15, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: I know that technically these are different regions, but... these categories overlap so healvy I think we should merge them. Mason (talk) 22:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom, but purge the Moroccan and Tunisian subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If Moroccan and Tunisian sub-categories are to be purged due to this merger, then I would oppose it, because the perceived and projected cultural ties among the Arab world are notable enough to warrant grouping all of these topics into that category.---Konanen (talk) 10:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in the Moroccan and Tunisian subcategories hints at being part of a movement in the Arab world. The content is very specifically related to these two countries only. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1) Point of clarification: do subcategories and pages within the Secularism category have to reference specific concerted movements, or is any topic related to Secularism within the named geographic region (whichever that may be) sufficient to merit inclusion into the category?
2) Morocco and Tunisia are, by definition, part of the Arab world. Any movements existing in these countries are therefore logically movements within the Arab world, so unless I have lost all of my abilities to read and understand, I do not think your comment makes sense.
Clarification would be appreciated! –Konanen (talk) 12:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Konanen: there is certainly an Arab world, but it isn't obvious that there is Arab world secularism. Unless further evidence is provided this category is a case of a trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am very sorry, but I still fail to understand it isn't obvious that there is Arab world secularism. What does that even mean? Does a movement of secularism have to be run by the same organisation in every single country that is part of a defined geographical region (→ Arab world) to be considered as existent? If so, then how does merging Category:Secularism in the Arab world into Category:Secularism in the Middle East make any sense? And why not merge that into Category:Secularism in Asia when we are at it? Konanen (talk) 17:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Konanen (talk) 17:50, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In order to get any further in this discussion you need to make a case that "secularism in the Arab world" is an encyclopedic topic. That does not require a single organisation though. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I appreciate the categories may have heavy overlap, but I do not see why the Arab World, as a geographical and political area/unit, should be of lesser importance than, say, Category:Secularism in England while nobody suggests merging it into Category:Secularism in the United Kingdom, or merging that one into Category:Secularism in Europe. @Marcocapelle suggests that, if the merger goes through, Moroccan and Tunisian subcategories should be purged. That would be a disservice to the bigger picture, since all countries of the Arab world have significant influence over each other’s political movements, see for example the lead at Arab Spring. Marcocapelle’s requirement to make a case that "secularism in the Arab world" is an encyclopedic topic seems to me to be iniquitous, as well. But never let it be said that I would not try to source proof of definingness of the subject matter [9][10][11][12]. However, if a merger is considered absolutely necessary, then I suggest renaming Category:Secularism in the Middle East to Category:Secularism in the Middle East and North Africa, modelled after Democracy in the Middle East and North Africa. Thank you. –Konanen (talk) 09:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question/Comment: Asking for evidence to support something being defining is not "iniquitous", that's a reasonable bar. But what I'm struggling with is why we need both Secularism in the Middle East and Secularism in the Arab world. Are they distinct enough to warrant two categories? I think that merging in reverse would also be fine. Mason (talk) 19:50, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mason: Yes, because the Arab World is a reasonably well-defined geocultural area, while the Middle East, which is a more loosely-defined geopolitical region, comprises—per the WP article—five non-Arab World countries, and moreover lacks 6 to 9 (depending on the count) countries considered as belonging to the Arab World. In other words, there are roughly 18 countries making up the Middle East, 13 of which are part of the Arab World, while the minimum count of the latter comprises 19 countries (maximum: 22 countries).
It may be useful for some users to limit their browsing of the topic to only Arabic-speaking countries, as their political developments are usually heavily influenced by one another, and correlations within them would be of greater interest, which is not the case for non-Arab World Middle Eastern countries, which has a contested/varying definition. –Konanen (talk) 22:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not asking if Arab world and the middle east are distinct. I'm asking if the intersection with secularism for each is distinct. Mason (talk) 00:02, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:10, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. @Konanen, I would say the term "Arab world" is the more loosely defined region of the two. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:36, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, @Smasongarrison, I think we can create a Category:Secularism in North Africa to represent the second half MENA countries and add any related article there. Just a thought. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that would be a good solution Mason (talk) 00:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
I tagged that category to make it part of this CfM. NLeeuw (talk) 19:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting as Category:Hamas members by role has not been tagged for a week. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 22:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: "Bomber" and "military wing membership" aren't specific roles – they are attributions or in some cases here allegations or associations. Leadership is also a vague concept in the context and can refer to individuals at all different levels up and down the hierarchy, so "leader" is also not a specific role here. There's no reason why these sub-categories wouldn't simply be more usefully listed under the main category anyway. Iskandar323 (talk) 04:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Iskandar323: please revert your removal of the category from various members. It defeats the purpose of CfD if you do so. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The category wasn't populated with any "bombers", which are aircraft. It contained five military engineers and bomb markers and one suicide bomber, which is a precise term. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This category has been emptied. LizRead!Talk! 05:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I have restored the six members. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:51, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It can be merged to Category:Hamas military members, but that would only prequel a further discussion on renaming/deletion. At the moment, it is imprecise and could be readily deleted as vapid and meaningless. Alternatively, five members are "bomb markers", not "bombers", so it could be renamed to that; however, the last is a suicide bomber, which would need removing in case of renaming. Iskandar323 (talk) 18:28, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Ancient villages in Israel
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale:delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. There is no need to merge, the subcategory is already in appropriate parents. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:51, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose People can acquire citizenship through other means than naturalization. Many jus sanguinis countries allow people to register as citizens without going through the naturalization process if they have family ties to the country. The discussion was poorly attended and flat out wrong because most people with acquired Israeli citizenship got it via a different process than naturalization. (t · c) buidhe 05:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would lean towards opposing merge because heritage citizenship acquisition is very different from naturalization, and could be a defining difference. Besides naturalization is a more common term, because most countries with a lot of new citizens get them via naturalization primarily or exclusively. (t · c) buidhe 05:47, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, @Smasongarrison I think merging as is would be better, don't you? I would also open to reverse merge too since "aquired" is a more broader term covering types of citizenships. I just don't think splitting hairs between types of methods is advisable here. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:41, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is also true, so I am not wedded to a particular merge direction. I do think that these categories should be merged somehow since the difference between the two is pretty trivial. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support a merge. I'm of the same opinion as Macro. A merge would be good, either direction is fine with me.Mason (talk) 22:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Pppery and Ymblanter: please do not process the previous nomination pending discussion about this one. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it was already processed two days ago, but the categories can be retagged and included here, if there is consensus to revert we can revert. Ymblanter (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note 1: If a merge does go ahead, the parent categories will need to be edited manually. Note 2: I only found this after merging Wikidata on some of the former set. I am willing to undo that work if there is consensus to revert. – FayenaticLondon 10:09, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: "Syndromic autism" is much more commonly used than "Syndromes with autism". For example, on Google Scholar, "Syndromes with autism" OR "Syndrome with autism" yields about 516 results[13], whereas "Syndromic autism" gives about 3,470 results[14]. Additionally, renaming this category would also make it correspond to Syndromic autism article. Digressivo (talk) 05:30, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, not a defining characteristic of these syndromes. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:20, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A syndrome is a collection of symptoms that co-occur and therefore when autism is one of these it is prominently listed in the RS and can be considered defining.
I'm not against the rename but for reference the title was chosen for consistency with other "syndromes with" categories. (t · c) buidhe 01:30, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They aren't syndromes with autism but rather syndromes with a slightly higher prevelance of autism than average. Most articles hardly make any reference to autism. A list would be much better in this case, and that is already included in the main article. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:30, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The ones I added had due weight to mention autism in the first couple of sentences, even if it isn't universal. The category seems to have expanded in the meantime and may need a purge instead. (t · c) buidhe 16:41, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on deletion? (I am not seeing opposition to the rename if this category continues to exist, so if there are no further comments I would expect this to be closed as rename with no consensus on whether the category should exist.) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:17, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer deletion given that what Marco has written. Mason (talk) 02:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose deletion. Autism is not just a slightly higher prevalence; it is a significant and clinically relevant feature of these syndromes, affecting more than a third or even more than half of the patients in some cases. Digressivo (talk) 01:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many articles do not even mention autism. Or, people with Cornelia de Lange syndrome may exhibit behaviours that have been described as "autistic-like", which is not to say that they are autistic people. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Scientific literature clearly indicates the significance of autism spectrum disorder in these syndromes (e.g., see the sources cited in the Syndromic autism article). Therefore, I think the issue here is to improve the articles to include the relevant information rather than removing the entire category. Digressivo (talk) 06:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I don't think we need to diffuse Bavand or Baduspanid dynasty by century. Instead I think we should repurpose it to be a nationality category. Mason (talk) 20:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 01:14, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep But why? Both dynasties almost lasted 1000 years and had many rulers. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:28, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the category only contains two centuries... and we don't typically have categories at the intersection of occupation+century+family dynasty. And we don't have parent categories for several of the two way intersections, which makes it hard for me to see a case for why this narrow intersection is defining. Mason (talk) 20:06, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Lots of differing options; any compromise? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:14, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy to merge it into the existing categories. Mason (talk) 00:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: no accurate reliable sources to verify such a classification, even the category descroption says "This category is not necessarily indicative of total loss of population, traditions, language or culture - each specific case may have particular individual contexts" that its unable to be clearerly define or even confirm that the launguage, culture, people, knowledge, country is actually extinct Wikipedia should not be categorising as such. Gnangarra 13:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gnangarra The category description can be changed. If articles can use past tense words like "were" and "was" in reference to a tribe, I'm not seeing why the word "extinct" is out of question. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 18:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is the issue of using the "tribes" to decsribe Indigenous Countries, Cultures and People in Australia is inaccurate at best racist at worst. The term itself implies a lot of colonial misinformation and a distinct lack of understanding of Indigenous Cutlures in Australia. The use of past tense in words like were or was is also not an indicator of the Indigenous Countries, cultures, languages or peoples continuation. Very specifically by calling a Country extinct that frees the restriction of cultural protocols applying when working on with Indugenous Cultural materials. All countries are still in existance and are represented through Land Councils who manage everything from protocols on entering a country, to land rights. My reasoning is not playing words games its saying that the assumption of being extinct is a misnomer, even in languages and cultures where a recent Language conference in Queensland a professor was luaghed off stage when he stated that a language was extinct yet multiple people stood up and spoke the language. Without rocksolid gold plate sources published within the last 4 years the label of extinct is a false narrative derived from the recent history wars, and anti landrights campaigners. The other issue we have is the Australian Bureau of Statistics problematic collection of reliable data as it records just one language spoken not all In the context of the Census, 'Indigenous' or 'First Nations' results are defined by respondents who have answered that they are of Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander background. There are over 230 Australian Indigenous Languages that the Census records which is less than the actual number of Indigenous languages.[15]. Gnangarra 09:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the use of "tribe" isn't my decision. It is used for many articles about Aboriginal Australian groups, so that seems to perhaps be a wider issue worth fixing. What is the continuation of a group like the Toogee? What is the relevant land council? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 07:18, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tribe is not used in Australia, the poor use of terms in Wikipedia articles is one of the many barriers people working with Indigenous cultures struggle to address as shows Wikipedia in a bad light and not respectful of the culture. Basically ticks all the racists, Inforwar, challenge faced out on the street its up to us to lift our standards. Gnangarra 12:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, it is questionable if ethnic groups become extinct at all. A language may become extinct for sure, but ethnic groups mostly dissolve in other ethnic groups. - But this comment applies to the whole tree of Category:Extinct ethnic groups. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:24, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle Aren't we talking about cultural extinction? Are you defining extinction as the literal death of all group members without any descendants? That seems like an unorthodox interpretation. The Susquehannock people are extinct as a tribe, despite having some descendants in the Seneca-Cayuga Nation. I don't see any contradiction here. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 18:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Frustratingly, the term "extinct" seems to be used somewhat inconsistently for both cultural extinction and the death of all group members (at least, from a google search). Is there a better term we could use to distinguish the two? Category:Extinct ethnic groups is currently a subcategory under Category:Human extinction which implies the latter, so perhaps it should be renamed and/or categorized differently if most of the members are groups that are only culturally extinct. Psychastes (talk) 19:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seneca-Cayuga Nation is not an Indigenous Country in Australia, you are making comparisons that are not like for like. Gnangarra 09:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And? I'm addressing Marcocapelle's statement about the broader category tree. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 04:39, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If not an outright deletion then certainly a renaming to be more clear would seem to be a good idea.★Trekker (talk) 20:30, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Genocide happens. Wishful thinking doesn't change that. "Extinct" is a harsh and ugly word to apply to people; it's natural to recoil in disgust at the idea. It may be very appealing to think that a group "didn't really go extinct" because some of their descendants blended into other groups. But if the group no longer exists as a distinct people with a distinct culture and language, the group really is extinct. Perhaps something like Category:Former Indigenous peoples would be less noxious to the moral sense of the reader. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 04:36, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mitch Ames That leads to two questions. Is there even one example in all of Australian history of an entire group being murdered without any known descendants? Are there any examples of groups who, through genocidal violence and assimilation, ceased to exist as distinct cultural groups? In both cases, there would have to be terminology to describe a group that once was and now is no longer. If not "extinct", there would still have to be some other description. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 10:37, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, we need to be careful not to conflate "genocide" and "extinction". Genocide does not require killing all of the people - it is defined as "intentional destruction ... in whole or in part". Extinction requires that they all die, but doesn't require intent. There may be an overlap, but they are not the same thing, and neither implies the other. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gnangarra Since my meaning apparently wasn't clear; there are genocidal acts of violence which lead to the literal or cultural destruction of peoples. What terminology would you use to refer to groups that have been physically annihilated in entirety through genocidal violence, disease, etc? What terminology would you use to refer to historical groups that may have living descendants but that are no longer culturally distinct due to genocidal violence, etc? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 13:13, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the issue the assumptions here are made based on the use of past tense language in the article, none of them have any reliable sources to support being included in this category. Given that the category itself should be deleted. Gnangarra 13:33, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gnangarra There are a small number of articles. I do not have a strong opinion on the category, whether it should be renamed or deleted. But I reiterate my question; are there any historical Indigenous Australian groups that can be said to have once existed but that no longer do? What terminology should be used to refer to those historical groups? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 15:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I dont have any reliable sources to answer that question, all I know is the articles in this category dont have reliable sources to even be included in the category. The whole purpose of raising it here is exatcly the category itself not some wider theoretical discussion on meanings or what ifs. I gather I can remove them all from this category for lack of sourcing that clearly supports the claim. Gnangarra 12:11, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gnangarra How would you feel about a category such as Category:Historical Indigenous peoples in Australia, Category:Historical Indigenous peoples, etc. or would that involve the same quandaries? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 07:13, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
to quotes The articles are fine in Category:Aboriginal peoples of Queensland anyway. MarcocapelleGnangarra 05:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mitch Ames I'm not conflating genocide and extinction; I myself belong to a group whose history includes the former but not the latter. But I would question why the word extinction has to automatically mean everybody dies. I don't think a term like "cultural extinction" implies that. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 13:07, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
why the word extinction has to automatically mean everybody dies — Because when we are talking about people, that's what the word means "Extinction is the termination ... by the death of its last member." Admittedly if we are talking about culture we could say that the group is extinct if nobody belongs to it. (If we all gave up editing and WMF deleted Wikipedia, Wikipedians could be said to be "extinct", but most us would still be alive.)
My main point here is that we should probably not use the word "genocide" in this discussion, because it is neither necessary nor sufficient for "extinction", and is unnecessarily emotive. Yes genocide happened, but that does not determine whether a particular people is extinct or not. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mitch Ames Okay. So what terminology should we use for "cultural extinction"? What terminology should we use to refer to historical groups that no longer exist as distinct cultures? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 15:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term "cultural extinction" is not helpful at all. Even if there is no tangible remainders of a culture you never know how much of customs and oral literature have been exchanged with and integrated in other cultures. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but that doesn't mean that the group still exists. So what terminology would you use for a group that once existed and does not now? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 17:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: having now been through every article not one defines the culture, people, or country as extinct, sadly Tindale works from 1974 is the primary source in every article and the most recent. The issue there their inclusion is based on whoever started the article using a generic type sentence like according to tindale they (some past tense word) from this area in Queensland. Ironically the only article with recent sourcing is about the current issue of domestic violance in Australia which makes no sense as its in this category. Gnangarra 12:59, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably you could solve the problem by changing "The Xxxx were ..." to "The Xxxx are ..." (other verb tense changes as appropriate), and providing a reliable source to support the statement of their continued existence. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:16, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could change the wording, but as all the articles are basically say Tindale described these countries on his map as being xxxx, their inclusion in the category isnt based on reliable sources or hints of a reference to Extinct. I suggest the category becomes extinct. Gnangarra 14:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 01:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - for the record I had created this category in response to seeing a universal category being created for Extinct Indigenous groups, including Australian people, it seemed at the time better to identify the Australian component of an apparent claim. Note that by creating the category, I did not necessarily agree with either the category title or its assumptions, which is why I placed in bold comments as to the very specific event/issue raised in articles. I am intrigued by the discussion to date, as it seems either concentrating upon category trees and related subjects, or the issues of how to name groups of people who have been affected by reduction or severe loss of population. As the process in this particular part of wikipedia is relative to categories, there is a problem as to whether the actual subject is best ventured as to the veracity of terminology. It could be for everyones advantage to delete the original parent category, and find somewhere other than this CFD to explore the issues that are raised here. A collaborative approach to the wider wikipedian understanding of how to 'frame' the larger world wide issue of how and when ethnic groups have decimation of population is something well beyond the bounds of this cfd, and to simply arrive at a decision here on one small perspective does the larger project some significant disservice. Definitely not a 'free for all' RFC or similar, it needs a very specific guideline and process that works through the issues raised here, for the larger project. But then this is wikipedia, anything could happen. JarrahTree 02:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Lots of discussion, but no concrete proposals (which is not inherently a bad thing!). What should happen to the category? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:13, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but disperse in the tree of Category:People on the autism spectrum in the first place. I am not sure about the proposed merge target because I do not know if autism is generally considered to be a disability. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose/Keep I disagree that only identity+action are more defining than identity+identity, in fact I find autistic LGBT to be more defining than LGBT muderers (which one thing has nothing to do with each other, but since they are religioculturally/traditionally seen as sinful, then we have these guidelines). And as EGRS notes, When making a new category, be sure there is substantial existing research on that category of people specific to the occupation in relation to their sexual orientation. while making it unclear about identity+identity instead of occupation. And as you linked, the topic justifies it as notable. Actually, I find autistic LGBT to be more defining than LGBT with disability. --MikutoHtalk! 23:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
also, isn't it the nominator responsible for searching old deletions to support their arguments? Because I found no previous deletions and decided to create, in my perception for the first time, the category. If I saw that it was deleted before, I would rethink it before creating it. but since that's not the case, I don't understand why you mentioned this fact. or do you mean that previous deletions justify recreation? --MikutoHtalk! 00:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator linked to the previous discussion. As you can see the category name was slightly differently but the scope is exactly the same. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh you're right, I accidentally ignored the link. --MikutoHtalk! 00:59, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That discussion had small quorum with two voting, IP nominated multiple categories in the same bascket. --MikutoHtalk! 23:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Repilies/Questions: What do you @MikutoH mean by identity+action versus identity+identity? Because the requirement for intersections is the same per WP:EGRS. The bar is set high to avoid tokenization and stereotypes. Most of the categories that meet the threshold for egrs is indentity+occupation. It's a much higher bar to cover three way intersections: being LGBT, being disabled, and the specific kind of disability. It isn't about what you find to be defining. It's what scholarly sources say is defining. We are also running afoul of final rung. Mason (talk) 23:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was talkibg about this sentence: a person's actions are more important than, for example, their race or sexual orientation.. And Wikipedia:Consensus can change. --MikutoHtalk! 01:07, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And you ignored the studies in the article you linked. --MikutoHtalk! 01:07, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thanks for clearing that up. I don't disagree with you. I think that the intersection of two identities can be defining, but it does require a heavier bar. And, I just don't think that there's enough literature to support the intersection right now. What I've seen in the literature is descriptive that people are more likely to have both identities than by chance alone. But there are a lot of descriptions like that, such as men who's name start with L are more likely to be lawyers. (Ok not that extreme, but it takes more than just the fact the intersection exists). Mason (talk) 00:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - I think this intersection does qualify as defining for the purposes of EGRSD (in part because it is a notable intersection that I think several reliable sources discuss the incidence of and connection between in-depth), though my opposition is weak purely because I'm concerned maybe there's some nuance of the guideline I'm not understanding here. - Purplewowies (talk) 01:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've actually been thinking about this a little... what in EGRSD implies a higher bar than the intersection being notable/encyclopedic? Is there someone who could explain that higher bar in a way that makes it clear where the guideline does not? In particular, I don't see anything that suggests a higher bar, and the section's prose even ends with "At all times, the bottom line remains can a valid, encyclopedic main article be written for this grouping?" (Which. It can. The nom says as much.) I'm considering changing my !vote to a non-weak oppose, but I wanted to see if anyone can make me see something in EGRSD that I'm not picking up on. Thanks. - Purplewowies (talk) 16:43, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the quote from egrs, with two underlines.@Purplewowies
>Do not create categories that intersect a particular topic (such as occupation, place of residence, or other such characteristics) with an ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or disability, unless that combination is itself recognized as a defining topic that has already been established (in reliable sources showing substantial existing research specific to the topic), as academically or culturally significant in its own right. The mere fact that such people happen to exist is not a valid criterion for determining the legitimacy of a category.
It effectively says that the intersection needs to be defining as a topic, as opposed to some categories that are just used to diffuse a larger category, like 1901 events etc or people from Georgia. The fact that such people exist isn't enough, which is effectively the argument I'm making. The literature says that these people exist and do at higher rates, which could and does support a page existing, but it doesn't mean that there's a body of academic literature that the intersection of two identities is defining above and beyond that two identities by themselves. Mason (talk) 21:28, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the explanation! I'm still of the mind it's defining based on that guideline, but I'll keep my "official" !vote labeled as weak. *thinking emoji* - Purplewowies (talk) 18:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. I tend to take a broader definition of disability to explicitly include autism and other (equally lovely) flavors of neurodivergence, but you're right that not a universal opinion (It probably stems from my default of wanting more folks on my team 🤣).
@Omnis Scientia Would you be willing to do the manual merge to determine which folks should be added to the intersection (lgbt+disability)? I think it would be helpful to have someone who has a less universalist approach make the decisions. I'm happy to help with the rest. Mason (talk) 23:57, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison, I understand that perfectly! Its a good thing to be inclusive. And sure, I would be willing to manually merge. Omnis Scientia (talk) 08:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Much appreciated as alwaysMason (talk) 20:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, numerously populated, interesting and useful. RodRabelo7 (talk) 15:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:Interesting and WP:useful are not reasons to keep categories. In fact they are both arguments to avoid, especially when it a violation of other policies. Mason (talk) 15:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mason, as per WP:USEFUL you've just hyperlinked, [t]here are some pages within Wikipedia that are supposed to be useful navigation tools and nothing more—disambiguation pages, categories, and redirects, for instance—so usefulness is the basis of their inclusion; for these types of pages, usefulness is a valid argument. Usefulness is indeed to be avoided in AfD discussions, not here. RodRabelo7 (talk) 00:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:People on the autism spectrum
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:keep. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:33, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The current name strikes an acceptable compromise between person-first or identity first language that neither of proposed renames addresses.[16][17][18][19] Furthermore, the main article was moved to Autism, which doesn't solve the problem for people on the spectrum. Mason (talk) 00:20, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, this is really a WP:COMMONNAME type of discussion. I think "people on the autism spectrum" has become the common name by now but I would welcome if someone would come up with relevant statistics. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose:"on the autism spectrum" is terminology that has significant support amongst autistic people themselves [20] and is at the very least terminology that few people hate.[21] The preference for identity-first language is not as uniform as it's made out to be, and "on the autism spectrum" represents a fairly non-controversial compromise. Its only drawback is that it's not as popular. In academic research, I'm assuming it's because they tend to use the full name "autism spectrum disorder". Google Scholar search results of the past 10 years yields this: "people with autism" -> 29.300 results, "autistic people" -> 16.900 results, "people on the autism spectrum" -> 5.590 results, "people with autism spectrum disorder" -> 12.200 results, "people with ASD" -> 17.000 results. On Google Trends, "autistic people" has overtaken "people with autism", and "people on the autism spectrum" ranks far beneath both of them.[22]
Based on popularity (academic and common) and the fact that there is support among autistic people, I'm not completely opposed to changing it to "autistic people", but said support is far from uniform so I'm hesitant about a hard line stance. TheZoodles (talk) 08:34, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Hospitals in Dharwad
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:soft merge/rename as nominated; unopposed for over three weeks. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:33, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: These categories are one half of a twin city Hubli-Dharwad. The cities have a single municipal corporation called Hubli-Dharwad Municipal Corporation. (It's like the Twin-Cities Minnesota). Almost all of these categories were made by now blocked sock puppet. Mason (talk) 01:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting as this is will impact a lot of categories. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Seems to be entirely original research, not a thing whatsoever in video games, or in horror video games. User has been warned repeated for adding, and now creating, incorrect categories. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 20:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and cleanup It apparently is a thing in video games, there are plenty of sources that describe games as body horror, such as this one and this one. Body horror also has its own parent article. I'm not really aware of what bad categories this user made, but either way, even a stopped clock is right twice a day and that alone isn't a reason to delete a viable category. Any games that sources don't describe as body horror should be removed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree to keeping/cleanupAHI-3000 (talk) 19:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Keep and purge? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 15:59, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Former Jewish agricultural colonies of Podolia Governorate
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Nominator's rationale:merge for now, only one article in the category is not helpful for navigation. No objection to recreate the category when some more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:26, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:United States religion navigational boxes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Comment Category has been emptied. LizRead!Talk! 16:59, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz, I believe Rangasyd, acting in good faith, removed the only content of the category. I've added it back. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale:merge (or reverse merge), it is unclear how these two categories are different from each other. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support merge. I think that converts from FOO is supposed to model other religion converts categories. I'd be interested in anyone from the religion/athesist categories chiming in in case we're missing something. Mason (talk) 02:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's part of an overarching category sceme with a certain logic. Former Fooians can become converts to some other religion, e.g. Barism.
But if the new religion or lack thereof of the former Fooians cannot be determined, we cannot diffuse them to a subcategory called converts to Barism from Fooism.
Or, it may be that a former atheist or agnostic has embraced some form of theism, but not converted to a specific institutionalised or traditional form of it. Category:Converts from atheism or agnosticism is a containercat that currently only allows us to diffuse former atheists and agnostics as converts to Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. But of course, those are far from the only options on the 'market', so to speak.
I think this indeterminacy, as well as lack of options to diffuse to, is what requires these categories to remain separate. (Honestly, I understand where the idea to merge them comes from, and I had to think for quite some time before figuring out why I had a hunch that it might not be a good idea, and writing this down haha). NLeeuw (talk) 17:29, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: A good example of a former Fooian whose current religion or lack thereof cannot be determined is Wesley Snipes. Raised as a Christian, converted to Islam, then left Islam, and we don't know what he considers himself these days. The default assumption may be that he is therefore an atheist or agnostic these days, but no RS says that, so such a conclusion is OR.
Similarly, there has been quite a lot of controversy around Antony Flew, a life-long atheist who appears to have embraced some form of theism just before he died and co-wrote a book titled There Is A God with a Christian. That Christian co-author has claimed that Flew converted to Christian theism just before he died, and that the book is "evidence" of Flew's wholehearted, sincere embrace of the Christian religion. Meanwhile, several atheists came out and called foul play, alleging that the co-author put words in Flew's mounth in order to construct a deathbed conversion story that is really convenient for propaganda purposes, and that Flew seems to have not embraced Christianity specifically, but a more general vague theism. Who can say? Flew is not there anymore now to explain. That's why he is in Category:Former atheists and agnostics, but not in Category:Converts to Christianity from atheism or agnosticism, as his religious views just prior to his death cannot be precisely determined, and thus diffused. NLeeuw (talk) 17:48, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Opposeor widen the scope of the merge. The category Category:People by former religion has quite a few categories in it, including this one, of people by former religions or former non-religion. If we merge this one it would make sense to merge all of them. However, I feel like both categories are useful, as "Convert" categories show what they converted too, while the "Former" categories (which include the Converts as a subcat) are for those where the conversion "destination," for lack of a better word, is unknown. Relinus (talk) 15:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well said. You explain some of what I was trying to say better than I could. NLeeuw (talk) 17:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not understand the logic. Of course there are people who do not fit a "converts to" subcategory deeper in the tree. But how does it matter whether these people are in a general "converts" category or in a general "former" category? They are both general categories. In terms of widening the scope of the nomination, I am definitely planning to follow up with sibling categories if this goes ahead. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because the discussion is on merging the convert/former categories into one category even though they are both needed for the reasons stated above, namely that, as you say, "there are people who do not fit a 'converts to' subcategory deeper in the tree" but who would still fit into the "former" category. Since every religion/non-religion has both a "former" category and a "convert" subcategory, removing one or both for only atheism/agnosticism doesn't make sense. You would need to do the same for all religions, ie. merging Category:Converts from Buddhism and Category:Former Buddhists, etc. (That was what I meant by widening the scope of the merge, however, I would actually oppose that too, since it doesn't make sense either.) Relinus (talk) 19:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Relinus: until your bracket we seem to agree. I already mentioned I will do a follow-up nomination for all religions if this goes ahead. I do not understand why within the brackets you suddenly jump to a different conclusion. Why doesn't that make sense either? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Video games by language
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Honestly, this whole thing video game language category is just a big mess. These categories are tied to three previous Cfd - here, here, and here - where the nominator is behaving oddly. They nominated it but the began to oppose it the moment people voted delete, saying they would withdraw it but never did and instead created more categories. I don't know what is going on. These are the rest of the categories which weren't nominated. Omnis Scientia (talk) 07:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, largely overlapping with country(countries) of development for which we already have categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:59, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close. But will Rename parent cat to "Single-language video games." These are diffing and categorize video games in a certain way. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:24, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The Portuguese- and Arabic-language-only categories have been emptied. LizRead!Talk! 20:28, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Arabic has been emptied since i couldn't find anything that actually work (and I don't want to anyway). QuantumFoam66 (talk) 04:06, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CFD discussions can take a while to close. They are not on as much of a schedule as AFDs. LizRead!Talk! 18:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom and others. To QuantumFoam, please familiarize yourself with category policy or it may lead to a block. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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This sounds like a too complex solution for a not so complex problem. I think we should just remove Attica from Category:History of Central Greece and every of its subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:23, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is too simplistic a solution for a complex problem. I'll illustrate the problem with maps:
If we want this category to be only about the modern administrative region (perifereia) of Central Greece, it's not just about removing Attica, it is also removing parts of Western Greece, removing the northeast coast of the Pelopponese (or not?), removing Kythira (or not?), but adding Skyros (or not?), and so on. NLeeuw (talk) 10:11, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough to remove those too. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I nominated grandchild Category:Battles in Central Greece for renaming to Category:Military history of Central Greece. Under my current splitting proposal, that renaming proposal remains unaffected. But if we want to avoid the Lorraine problem, as in previous "Battles in" discussions, it might have to be renamed to Category:Military history of Central Greece (region) later on. My splitting proposal was designed mostly to solve that potential Lorraine problem ahead of time, but I guess it doesn't really matter, as we can always C2C it later. NLeeuw (talk) 05:29, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The changed merge targets sound good to me. Mason (talk) 21:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Former atheist critics of atheism
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete. All articles are already in subcategories of both merge targets. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 13:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Upmerge this narrow intersection. Also, it's unclear from the name if this is supposed to be former critics of atheism or former atheists. Mason (talk) 03:21, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I'm not sure yet whether we should split, but if we do, then both categories. NLeeuw (talk) 15:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:delete. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 02:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:Template:WikiProject Anti-war does not use a custom quality format or whatever it’s called so this category is useless. 48JCLTALK 19:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Video games by language
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: The reason why I'm deleting these categories are only for video games supported in a single language, and none of these categories are fully-populated either. More importantly many titles only available in a single language can alternatively be found in Category:Region-exclusive video gamesQuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I changed my mind, I am keeping other categories still, but may need something else to do. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:19, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There are several multiregional languages, such as English, French (France, Canada, French Africa, French Polynesia, French Caribbean), Portuguese (Brazil, Portugal, Macao), Spanish (Spain, Latin America, Philippines), Russian (North Asia, Central Asia, Europe), Arabic (North Africa, West Asia, East Africa, Central Asia, Islamic World), Hebrew (Jewish World) -- 65.92.244.143 (talk) 06:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, this is a container category. Its fate is conditional on what happens with the subcategories, which have also been nominated on this page. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I will tag Category:Video games by language. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 18:13, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close. What will we do will other the other Categoires. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per WP:NONDEF. You cannot take back a nomination once others have voted otherwise, that would be a WP:SUPERVOTE withdrawal. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:English-language-only video games
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Propose deletingCategory:English-language-only video games (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: I am deleting this category along with other Video games by language categories, (expect Chinese-language-only video games, which will merge with China-exclusive video games). Reason: Many English-only titles are otherwise located in Category:North-America-exclusive video games QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:49, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Australia is not a multilingual region, indigenously developed games would be in English, same with New Zealand. Both are not in North America. Elon Musk's game Blastar was developed in South Africa in English only. So English isn't a language that is restricted to North America. Many games for the Acorn or the BBC were developed only in English and were mostly released in Britain and Australia -- 65.92.244.143 (talk) 06:30, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I will tag the category. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 18:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close. But will Rename parent cat to "Single-language video games." QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, largely overlapping with country(countries) of development for which we already have categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close. But will Rename parent cat to "Single-language video games." QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy close. I will also NOT rename the category to the new name. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 03:32, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Chinese-language-only video games
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Some of these titles may be available be it digitally or physically outside of China. But I don't follow that logic. Merge. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:55, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete, strong oppose merger You can’t just say “I don’t follow that logic, must be deleted” and expect it to work. But yes delete. 48JCLTALK 19:28, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This merger makes no sense. Taiwan exists. There have been vidoegames that were made for Taiwan or Hong Kong (pre-1997) that were only in Chinese. If this is properly populated, it should not contain just PRC-exclusive games. -- 65.92.244.237 (talk) 06:16, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I suppose I will withdraw my will the delete this category because of that logic. While Japanese, English, get deleted for some other reasons. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 00:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete with parent (below) — Insufficiently specified. Which language? Mandarin? Cantonese? William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: "Chinese-language" here refers to the Chinese language as a whole, including all variations of Chinese such as Cantonese. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 21:37, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Written Chinese is the ostensibly the same, so if there is no spoken Chinese, then it's just Chinese -- 65.92.244.143 (talk) 22:19, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 18:10, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close. But will Rename parent cat to "Single-language video games." QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, largely overlapping with country of development for which we already have categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:01, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close. But will Rename parent cat to "Single-language video games." QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy close. I will also NOT rename the category to the new name. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 03:32, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Billionaires of African descent
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:keep. – FayenaticLondon 06:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Categorization by non-defining characteristics should be avoided. The combination of being a billionaire and being of African descent is non-defining. Aldij (talk) 12:39, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep We have Black billionaires and there are dozens of articles about this intersection. Per WP:EGRS, "At all times, the bottom line remains can a valid, encyclopedic main article be written for this grouping?"--User:Namiba 14:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is a pretty poor article, only one source covering the grouping of black billionaires [23]. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, but there are many articles about this topic visible from a quick Google search.--User:Namiba 18:55, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 18:07, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The intersection isn't trivial there's a long academic interest in economic inequality in the African American community. Billionaires are a good indicator of progress in that regard because it indicates that African Americans have made progress and can break into the elite. If not kept, the categories should be merged, not deleted. Mason (talk) 22:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:keep. – FayenaticLondon 19:44, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can clearly discern intent, and it absolutely matters. Intentionally cited retractions have been reviewed by humans as appropriate to cite for the context, e.g. [24]. Articles with unintentionally cited retracted papers need review and very likely an update of the content based on a retracted paper, e.g. [25]. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:56, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
+1 that it absolutely matters. Citing doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(97)11096-0 (the infamous Lancet MMR autism fraud paper) is fine if you are citing it as a primary source (with the usual caveats about citing primary sources), but citing it as a legitimate piece of research absolutely needs to be checked. This is a tracking category; intent is determined by |intentional= parameter. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:52, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as the botop here that's inconveniently finding stuff to go into this category, it is absolutely important to distinguish which categories have been tagged and which have been checked. I'm not going to guess if the tag I've just applied is intentional or now. Happy with the renaming proposal as long as it's kept consistant with all 3 of the template types, this won't affect the bot as long as it's done in the template correctly. Mdann52 (talk) 13:46, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mdann52: you wrote "Happy with the renaming proposal" which I think overrides your first word "Keep" – did you just mean "Keep them separate", rather than "Keep current names"? – FayenaticLondon 07:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)w[reply]
@Fayenatic london: thanks for checking. Essentially, if this is just nominating one category, we should keep this as is. If we are changing the naming convention of all 3 categories, then I'm happy to support that. Mdann52 (talk) 10:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@HouseBlaster: Would Category:Articles citing retracted publications awaiting review be better for the unreviewed cases? (or "Articles awaiting review for citing retracted publications", but that precision is probably unnecessary.) – FayenaticLondon 07:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The categories are fine as is, let's close this pointless nitpicking. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 08:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would work for me.HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 13:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Teen Titans Go! (TV series) images
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The result of the discussion was:rename. – FayenaticLondon 14:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fictional female mechanics
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The result of the discussion was:mergeHouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:19, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I don't see any reason to split this by gender. There's only 10 articles in it, so there's no reason based on size. I don't really think being a female really matters with me mechanics. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:37, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Nepali language movement activists
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories. Rervse merge also fine by me Mason (talk) 20:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are not exactly overlapping, one is a category of Indian people, the other of Nepalese people. The former is related to the Nepali language movement which was a movement specifically in India. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:39, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 00:29, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:22, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale:Merge with parent category. Asperger's syndrome is no longer an official diagnosis so there shouldn't be a category suggesting it is either. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the categories should be merged. Jarble (talk) 14:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I find it mildly licentious (maybe?) to request a merge of this Category, when the two main articles that are the subject matter of this proposal, namely Asperger syndrome and Autism, are currently being Considered for Merger with nounanimous clear consensus reachedagainst the adoption of said merge proposal.
However, if I am wrong (entirely possible) and this proposal is not precipitate in view of the on-going discussion mentioned further above, then I Oppose, since not all countries have adopted ICD-11, and it continues to be an official diagnosis in some jurisdictions. There is also the possibility that some people might, for whatever personal reasons, identify more with the Asperger’s label than they do with Autism. We should not be taking away a notably significant and not-yet-historic diagnosis because of ICD-11. -Konanen (talk) 22:49, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Konanen, I didn't know about the merger and I would be against it myself since the scope of articles and categories are very different. Categories have a more stricter rules. From everything on the matter, Asperger's is no longer an official diagnosis. I wouldn't have taken the step if I wasn't sure. Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Omnis Scientia: Can you (or anyone else) please share what the rules on categories are? I have no idea where to find them, and I really enjoy not spewing nonsense, which I cannot do if I do not know the rules. Thank you in advance! –Konanen (talk) 23:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Konanen, hey there. You can read the rules at WP:CFD. Being completely honest, its fair complicated and I don't fully understand it myself. Still figuring it out. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:46, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lean oppose. The removal/subcategorization of Asperger's isn't really as clear cut. Many people were diagnosed with the disorder when it was in existence (which I think was as recently as 2019?), and they might very well still identify with that diagnosis, even if its been subsumed. I'd really like to get some more voiced from folks active in the Autism wikiproject as well as folks from the category itself. (I'm aware that we have have some good representation in CFDs, but... I'd rather have more voices on this rather than fewer). Mason (talk) 20:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison, I would love for them to have a say, certainly. I'm personally still learning about it myself and I could very well be wrong here. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was very confident that you would :) And I think that the tentative approach we're taking here is a good way to go about it. I could be convinced in either direction. Mason (talk) 21:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: I will drop a note at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Autism. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:19, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, if the term does not exist anymore then the category should not exist, just got diagnosed with autism today. Sahaib (talk) 16:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If there isn't consensus to do that then merge. The point isn't how I (or other members in the category) identify themselves, it's whether there is some value in grouping people who choose to identify in one way versus those who choose to identify in the other way on what modern science now says is the same issue. And I'm not seeing it. Because of my longstanding position on user category CfDs I'm not a good representative of the autism/Asperger's community here, other than the principle that wanting ones view of the rules to be followed strictly is a common manifestation of the syndrome. * Pppery *it has begun... 23:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:WP:NARROWCAT. Removed three entries where this was non-defining, leaving just the two films and the general topic (which isn't itself a film so maybe shouldn't be in here as an entry; perhaps ((catseealso)) would've made more sense). QuietHere (talk | contributions) 08:34, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I disagree that it's not defining on Postcard from Earth, where the 4-D aspect of the film is discussed substantially. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article only mentions the scent once in the lead and says nothing substantial about it in particular. If there's more to be written about that aspect then it should be added, at which point I would reconsider the category placement. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 17:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly I missed that it was a merge request. Still, looking at the items in Category:Olfactory art, I feel like these are very different topics, and I don't see films that happen to be about scents to be olfactory art by any definition. It should be up-merged to a category "Scents in media" or "Films about senses", but neither exist. Still think deletion is ultimately best. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 00:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename to Fooian-language novelists and purge. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:28, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A split would lead to pairs of categories with almost 100% overlap. Shouldn't we just rename the categories? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:49, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Thoughts on renaming? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 16:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care whether we rename to language or ethnicity, as long as your intent is clear. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:18, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The result of the discussion was:merge. – FayenaticLondon 08:52, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. Duplicate. ExRat (talk) 22:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy merge per C2A, obvious typo. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:18, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Historical geography of Fars
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 21:28, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This distinction for people who attended the extension school seems like an arbitrary distinction and is likely not defining for any of the two members in the category Mason (talk) 01:24, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The UCLA Extension is one of the constituent colleges in the UCLA Systems, and one of the oldest at UCLA (it is a separate accredited college and not a designation for off campus students). Several other universities have extension colleges as can be seen here. These colleges, designed for working people, are becoming more popular, particularly post COVID. There are many links to the main article for people, which likely means the cat can be populated well beyond the 10 already in it (I added a few since the start of this CFD). Also, this cat provides an opportunity for subcategorization of an overpopulated upper level cat. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 02:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. While you are right that there are other extension schools, this is the only one with a category and there doesn't seem to be a big difference between normal alumni and extension school alumni. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would still say merge per my second reasoning. I don't think the Harvard Extension School teaches anything special anymore than UCLA Extension does. @Smasongarrison, I think you should nominate this category as well, in fact (and any other similar one). Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've added to nom per @Omnis Scientia, pinging @FieldMarine. No one is saying that the extension school isn't notable, but that the distinction isn't defining for alumns. For example, Folks aren't introduced as UCLA Extension alumn, but they are as UCLA law school alumn. Mason (talk) 23:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Omnis Scientia: Like at UCLA, the Harvard Extension School is one of the oldest colleges at Harvard University and it is distinct, with its own graduation exercises. With respect to, "Folks aren’t introduced as…", a Google search of, "Graduated from Harvard Extension School" shows people are frequently "introduced" with that distinction. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 11:57, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, at least Harvard's. HES has separate degrees (ALB, ALM which aren't earned at other schools at Harvard), commencement ceremony, etc. for the extension school like the rest of the schools. There are unique classes at HES, that aren't offered at other schools. If UCLA, LaSalle, and any others are more like Harvard, keep them separate as well. Patken4 (talk) 13:01, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: This is an interesting case. A WP:OTHERCATSEXIST argument was resolved by adding the other categories to the nomination, which seems to have produced a small WP:TRAINWRECK. I am going to relist (though I was about to close this as no consensus without prejudice against seperate but simultaneous nominations); comments are welcome, though I suspect that this is heading to a no consensus with no prejudice against speedy renomination result. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Protesters
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The result of the discussion was:keep. – FayenaticLondon 08:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We don't have a Category:Massacres of activists or even Category:Murder of activists. Dimadick (talk) 05:24, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep, as it is in effect a "former nationality" category. The article Western Regions refers to a historical period (up to 8th century CE) as well as a geographical range. All the current member pages are from that period, and renaming to "Central Asia" would lose this. "Western Regions" is named with reference to China, and its significance for Buddhism seems to be that Buddhist monks from this region took their texts into China during that period. – FayenaticLondon 08:45, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Convicted participants in the Canada convoy protest
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Nominator's rationale: Dual merge for now. There's only one person in here, which isn't helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 04:33, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Split / dual merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 05:53, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Illeists
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The result of the discussion was:keep. – FayenaticLondon 08:29, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, the characteristic is defining enough to be covered by and discussed in reliable sources (often a multitude of reliable sources, such as for Zlatan Ibrahimović and Donald Trump). Besides, there is a body of scientific research on the various contexts and psychological meaning of illeism (see section "In everyday speech" in article Illeism). --HPfan4 (talk) 23:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are available sources, so it is not trivial. Dimadick (talk) 05:25, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Works by year
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The result of the discussion was:merge, also deleting Category:520s works and Category:390s works which would be isolated. – FayenaticLondon 11:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:390 works to Category:390
Propose merging Category:394 works to Category:394
Nominator's rationale: merge, isolated year categories. The two first categories do not need another merge target, the articles are already in a subcategory of Category:4th-century works. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge One article each. For most works of this era, we do not even know the precise date of publication or creation. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:21, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment: I'll need to think this over, but right now I'm leaning toward oppose as there's no consensus in history-writing on the English-language term used to refer to such rulers, though rulers is commonly used. On a related note, I notice you've attempted a reorganization to match the category's scope with that of the Kingdom of Chiang Mai article, which I'm not sure was optimal. As raised at Talk:Lan Na, there was not a separate "Kingdom of Chiang Mai", rather the article just covers the a period in Lan Na's history when it was under suzerainty of Bangkok, so it's probably the articles that need to be re-structured. But the categories can be updated again when and if that does happen. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:05, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll oppose per my above comment. King is not the standard terminology here. --Paul_012 (talk) 02:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Tambralinga
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The result of the discussion was:delete. – FayenaticLondon 11:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Ming dynasty overseer of rituals
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The result of the discussion was:delete. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 21:29, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Ming dynasty overseer of rituals (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale:delete, not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 05:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The characteristic appears to be a highly important ministerial post, overseeing the Court of Imperial Sacrifices under the Ministry of Rites. The linked zh:Category:明朝太常寺卿 (Category: Ming Dynasty Taichang Temple Ministers) and its 3 subcats hold over 200 biographies. However, if Huang Zicheng is the only one with an English wiki article, the category is not currently useful for navigation, so it can be deleted for now. Can anyone put together a PetScan to check if any more of the Chinese wiki articles have an English counterpart? – FayenaticLondon 17:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Crossover characters in television
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The result of the discussion was:delete. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deletingCategory:Crossover characters in television (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: I highly doubt this could be considered WP:DEFINING for a majority of these characters. (Oinkers42) (talk) 18:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 04:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Based on the description, it is likely to be WP:OCTRIVIA: This category is for characters in television who have made crossover appearances within other shows that are not their own. One appearance of a character does not make a defining trait. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:19, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: ((Infobox soap character)) has a "crossover" parameter for recording crossover series in the article's infobox, so I considered whether this info could be traced using that. However, ((Infobox character)) (which is used on many of the member pages) does not have that parameter. – FayenaticLondon 08:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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East Bengal
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The result of the discussion was:rename. HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 00:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, we had discussions about the category Category:East Bengal. You proposed to merge it into Category:East Pakistan (see here) saying they were actually same thing. The consensus was to merge the category. That's why these establishment categories are East Pakistan, not East Bengal. Now saying we have to rename them because it was East Bengal is contradictory because in 2022 you proposed the opposite showing different reason. If you want to rename establishment categories then I propose you to discuss to bring back East Bengal category first. Mehedi Abedin (talk) 10:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do not need separate trees just because of a name change, but the individual year categories should be named accurately. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:15, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Not sure how helpful this is for navigation. Omnis Scientia (talk) 00:21, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, not a defining characteristic except for the main article. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The attacks seem to be connected to Islamist extremist opposition polio vaccination in Pakistan, although this is not explicitly stated in either of those articles. Maybe the attack articles should be linked to from the main article? Other than that, not very useful for navigation, so I also lean delete. NLeeuw (talk) 05:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good move. Delete per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 08:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale:Delete; both articles are already in appropriate categories so no need to merge. Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Manx centenarians
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Nominator's rationale:Delete; only one article which is actually about a woman born on the Isle of Mann to an American citizen and who moved to America soon after. Omnis Scientia (talk) 23:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Guernsey centenarians
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Category:Philadelphian cricket tours of England
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Nominator's rationale: Narrow category, do we really need a category for only tours from a single city in the united states? Mason (talk) 23:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Former Christian creationists
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge, narrow intersection. There's no Category:Former evolutionists or Category:Former creationists Mason (talk) 22:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If not kept, then just delete instead of merge. The proposed merge targets are not defining characteristic of these people. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:28, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just delete per Marcocapelle. NLeeuw (talk) 05:52, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, I think Marcocapelle is right. – FayenaticLondon 13:06, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Propose deletingCategory:Why Do Fools Fall in Love (song) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: There are no categories for specific song titles nor should there be. Something like this could lead to a glut of overcategorization of other titles that could include a film named after the song, or any album that contains a cover version. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 21:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars
I see. Also, I know it does not have to do with this, but why does “Gangnam Style” article has its eponymous category although it’s a single?
@Inajd0101 it appears you've misunderstood the purpose of categories. The way you've made it, Category:Why Do Fools Fall in Love (song) functions more like Why Do Fools Fall in Love (a disambiguation page). The purpose of categories is navigation between subjects connected by common defining traits, while disambiguation is for like-named articles. I support deletion. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 22:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah,
Now I know now. Thanks, QuietHere. I agree with you. And excuse me for the inconvenience. Well, I did my best not to screw up. 😔
"The purpose of categories is navigation between subjects connected by common defining traits"
@QuietHere Just curious my friend, and I'm not trying to be nosy or sound condescending, but what do you mean by common defining traits? I'm learning. Thanks!
@Inajd0101 per CATDEF, "A defining characteristic is one that reliable sourcescommonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic, such as the nationality of a person or the geographic location of a place. For example, Italian and artist are defining characteristics of Caravaggio, and so of the article on him, because virtually all reliable sources on the topic mention them." DEFINING also has more details. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 04:25, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@QuietHere Fair enough. I understand that by then. Thanks! And just to let you know, AGAIN, I do my best to learn about Wikipedia although not all of them because it's not my lifestyle (although it might not be an excuse to you). And any of my works at Wikipedia is usually based on Frankie Lymon and his songs, such as "I'm Not a Juvenile Delinquent" and any articles related to him which I am passionate of learning about it. And @QuietHere, excuse me for adding categories without asking. I was so eager to see how it works, but I misinterpreted the purpose of categories. I should stick to editing most of my part on Wikipedia. And I wouldn't mind if you don't care about my passion regarding Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers and their songs.
@Inajd0101 to be clear, nobody is blaming you for this. You made a simple mistake and it's being taken care of. I think I can speak on behalf of any editor when I say I'm glad that you're willing to learn, even if there are bumps in the road. Heck, any other editor could tell you about plenty of bumps in the road they dealt with. I know I certainly had my fair share (some more recent than I'd like to admit). QuietHere (talk | contributions) 04:39, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and plus, I wouldn't mind if you wouldn't care about Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers and their songs, especially of how I'm passionate about them. You and @Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars are just probably paid to do the job and nothing else. Anyways, thanks!
And also, it's never my intention to make assumptions for others to feel bad. Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 04:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear Wikipedia is totally WP:VOLUNTEER, nobody is meant to be "paid" to do anything besides the Wikimedia Foundation that operates the site. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All right, fair enough. Not paid. I would assume the majority of people here are passionate about Wikipedia, or journalism, and nothing else, especially when it has to do with me being passionate about Frankie Lymon and his songs, especially “I’m Not a Juvenile Delinquent,” et cetera. But thanks!
Delete per nomination: I misunderstood the purpose of categories. And now I know why QuietHere explained to me earlier. Also, excuse me for the inconvenience I made. Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 22:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per WP:SHAREDNAME, as they don't otherwise appear to be related. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Why Do Fools Fall in Love (film)
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Nominator's rationale: All the entries for this category are songs from the film. Alternatively, upmerge to Category:Songs written for films. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 21:41, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nomination: I misunderstood the purpose of categories. And now I know why QuietHere explained to me earlier. Also, excuse me for the inconvenience I made. I did my best although not much of a Wikipedia (which I use it for the research I am willing to make regarding Frankie Lymon and The Teenagers). Inajd Inajd0101 (talk) 22:16, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename Per nom and C2C, though this could have been a speedy rename. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Propose deleting Category:20th century in Chiang Mai (added 8 June)
Propose deleting Category:21st century in Chiang Mai
Propose deleting Category:Centuries in Chiang Mai
Propose deleting Category:Decades in Chiang Mai
Propose deleting Category:Years in Chiang Mai
Propose deleting Category:History of Chiang Mai by period
Nominator's rationale: merge, they are almost all single-article categories, which is not helpful for navigation. Besides there are a number of establishments articles in this tree which do not belong directly in a year category, and they are already in an Establishments in Thailand category. So part of the nomination is merging, another part (the establishments bit) is deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete The population of Chiang Mai in the most recent census was only 127k. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:42, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, the number you showed is for the population of the urban area of Chiang Mai. Whereas these categories likely refer to the Chiang Mai province that has the population of 1.79M, just saying. Jothefiredragon🐲talk🐉edits 04:33, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The categories are named and parented as if they are for the city, not the province. – FayenaticLondon 12:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. I have added more parent categories that would become empty. – FayenaticLondon 12:59, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Rugrats and All Grown Up! books
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Category:American people by ethnic or national origin
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Rename per nom, this is not about ancestors' nationality, it is rather about people's own ethnicity. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename Almost all of the people-by-ethnicity categories outside of the United States are called "X by ethnicity". –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:47, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:1996 Windows-only freeware games
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Nominator's rationale: Narrow intersection of year and type of software and obvious overcategorization. Should be merged back to where it formerly was. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:40, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not overcategorization - every yeas had around 30 games - we will have toooo many items in one page. I did not add all games to all years yet. Vitaly Zdanevich (talk) 11:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hundreds of items is still a normal amount for a category - some have thousands of items. Wikipedia won't crumble under the weight of a few hundred items being in a category. But if these year categorizations are kept, they should be by decade per WP:OCYEAR. Things should only be sorted by exact year when absolutely necessary. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:38, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Only one of the three possible two-way intersections between "[released in] 2005", "Windows-only", and "freeware" actually exists. There are only 29 articles in the tree. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Alpha male chimpanzees
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Nominator's rationale: This isn't a defining category for the single non-redirect page in this category. Mason (talk) 03:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, only one article in the category and otherwise redirects, this is not helpful for navigation between articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:04, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Music memes
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Nominator's rationale: Was previously deleted in 2022 for being non-defining to most entries, and it appears this is the case again now. In that prior discussion, Bibliomaniac15 suggested that this information was better presented in lists rather than a category, and I'm inclined to agree. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 02:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Cultural policy by country
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Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one country in this category. At most there's two if you want to argue that East Germany isn't nested within Germany. Mason (talk) 02:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. The subcategories may be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: New category containing only 2 redirects. Gjs238 (talk) 01:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, this does not help navigation at all.Marcocapelle (talk) 05:50, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My earlier comment is no longer applicable after the category has been populated further. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Neither entry makes mention of relational art as a subject, and the relational art article doesn't mention either entry nor their targets, leaving it entirely unclear why they are being included in the first place. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 08:42, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Now contains 2 articles and 3 redirects. I have also added the main article, Relational art. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:14, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per QuietHere, having these articles in the category seems to be a matter of WP:OR. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New additions have the same issue of not mentioning the subject as the existing ones. Perhaps that just a matter of language and these articles all just need a rewrite to clarify their relevance, or maybe even new sources that do so, but as is there's no room for inclusion. Potential OR like Marcocapelle said. My vote remains the same. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 22:19, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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June 6
Category:Back at the Barnyard
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Category:Eyewear people
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Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. Mason (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It is unclear what this is supposed to be. Actual contents are mostly businesspeople that sell eyewear. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, only Hardy and Roth seem to belong in the category and they are in the tree of Category:Eyewear anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:23, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Categories by city in Burundi
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:merge. This is a sprawling discussion, but without any policy/guideline to supplement the WP:1AM opposition (and/or discount the proponents' arguments), it would be supervoting to close as anything but in favor of the 3–1 majority. (non-admin closure)HouseBlaster (talk · he/they) 01:15, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Propose upmerging Category:Battles of the War of 1812 in the United States to Category:Battles of the War of 1812 (now 2 C; redundant layer if those above are upmerged)
do not merge The purpose of categories is to improve navigation to articles by the reader. Logical/historical groups (categories) help such navigation; long lists of ungrouped articles do not. Not once in the nomination or agreements is there any mention how this change will help improve reader navigation. This should be rejected on its face. Previous actions of this sort should be re-examined and reversed. When lists are needed, list articles can be created without wholesale elimination of helpful category structures. Both lists and categories are a necessary part of WP navigation. There is no benefit to WP by warring on categories. Hmains (talk) 00:13, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
long lists of ungrouped articles By upmerging, the Category:Battles of the War of 1812 will contain 79 articles. That is not "long". Only when a category exceeds 200 articles, they cannot be displayed in a single view. WP:MILMOS#BATTLESIN explains all the relevant reasons why "battles in [location]" categories should not exist. Several precedents cited above demonstrate that there is a consensus to phase out such categories by merging or renaming them to "military history of X" categories.
While one may invent a personal rule that more than 200 entries is 'long', such a numbers rule is nowhere found in the WP rules for considering ease of navigation (creating categories). Instead of exampling the tiny state (Delaware) that had exactly one battle in the War of 1812, one should example the impact to other, more consequential, states and see the negative impact there to their parent categories and thus the true negative impact of this proposal. Consider New York state: Category:Battles of the War of 1812 in New York (state) with 12 articles. If this category were to be deleted, that means all 12 articles would be placed directly into the parent Category:Battles of the War of 1812 in New York (state) and alphabetically mixed into these articles: Henry Eckford (shipbuilder), Pike's Cantonment Site, Plattsburgh Bay, Sackets Harbor, New York and Veteran Corps of Artillery. Likewise, these 12 articles would be placed directly into Category:Battles in New York (state) and alphabetically mixed into its 14 existing articles on various other battles that occurred into New York state. Now consider the WP reader who is using categories and who wants to see any or all articles on War of 1812 battles in New York state. Getting to Category:Battles in New York (state), the reader must open each of the then 28 articles to discover what they want. And similarly with other consequential states. And since this proposal is to completely put all 79 battles into Category:Battles of the War of 1812 and thus eliminate their geographic location as battles of the War of 1812, it just gets worse and worse. Geography is important to history; it is not to be disregarded and discarded as un- tasty or otherwise in the way. There is no way this proposal can even be under consideration as helpful to the user navigation: it directly negates and destroys the category navigation purposes and structures of WP. The purpose of WP categories is to make things easier for readers, not more difficult, not just following a misreading of some other editors' discussions. Hmains (talk) 22:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Geography is important to history; it is not to be disregarded and discarded. We are not discarding geography at all; we are putting them all in categories of military history by state. What we're getting rid of is a jungle of categories that are unhelpful for navigation.
First, I need to correct my last post that should be read:
While one may invent a personal rule that more than 200 entries is 'long', such a numbers rule is nowhere found in the WP rules for considering ease of navigation (creating categories). Instead of exampling the tiny state (Delaware) that had exactly one battle in the War of 1812, one should example the impact to other, more consequential, states and see the negative impact there to their parent categories and thus the true negative impact of this proposal. Consider New York state: Category:Battles of the War of 1812 in New York (state) with 12 articles. If this category were to be deleted, that means all 12 articles would be placed directly into the parent Category:New York (state) in the War of 1812 and alphabetically mixed into these articles: Henry Eckford (shipbuilder), Pike's Cantonment Site, Plattsburgh Bay, Sackets Harbor, New York and Veteran Corps of Artillery. Likewise, these 12 articles would be placed directly into Category:Battles in New York (state) and alphabetically mixed into its 14 existing articles on various other battles that occurred into New York state. Now consider the WP reader who is using categories and who wants to see any or all articles on War of 1812 battles in New York state. Getting to Category:Battles in New York (state), the reader must open each of the then 28 articles to discover what they want. And similarly with other consequential states. And since this proposal is to completely put all 79 battles into Category:Battles of the War of 1812 and thus eliminate their geographic location as battles of the War of 1812, it just gets worse and worse. Geography is important to history; it is not to be disregarded and discarded as un- tasty or otherwise in the way. There is no way this proposal can even be under consideration as helpful to the user navigation: it directly negates and destroys the category navigation purposes and structures of WP. The purpose of WP categories is to make things easier for readers, not more difficult, not just following a misreading of some other editors' discussions.
Next, what is being proposed here is exactly what I wrote: eliminate the existing category structure that allows readers to quickly find all the battles of 1812 in New York State in one location (Category:Battles of the War of 1812 in New York (state)) without having to wade through and open n-number of extraneous articles just to find what they want--not to force each reader to make connections by taking information from one category Category:Military history of New York (state) and mindfully merging it with information from another category Category:Battles of the War of 1812. Such is the very purpose (and always has been) of categories (doing something once so each reader with each read does not have to do so), something the proposal would destroy by deleting Category:Battles of the War of 1812 in New York (state) and all similar categories--for no valid reader-oriented reason. If flat lists are wanted, then the WP solution is to create simple list articles--simple to do. The job of editors is NOT to presume they know how readers will look for information and limit WP to provide for that single presumption, but to provide various means that various readers of various thoughts and tastes may easily find what they want. This is what WP has always tried to do. Hmains (talk) 00:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about you help me rewrite Timeline of the War of 1812? I've merged all the battles into it, and have begun to integrate them and their descriptions into the existing tables. The new columns Theater and Notes allow us to state on which front or in which domain an event or battle took place, while the Notes allow us to give a bit more detail (such as location, intentions, results, losses etc.). Readers could easily find where a battle took place if we fill out these tables completely, especially by using the sort buttons. This overview will be able to do everything better than the elaborate subdivision of battles by location in sub-sub-sub-categories ever could. NLeeuw (talk) 15:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Ethnic or national descents
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Nominator's rationale: all subcategories in Category:People by descent are named "by descent", there is no reason to name these categories differently. Aldij (talk) 15:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:People associated with the Institute for Cultural Research
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Delete, we don't categorize people by association anyway, per WP:OCASSOC. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Cornish people of Irish descent
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Nominator's rationale:Irish people in Great Britain is already in the categories 'Irish diaspora in the United Kingdom' and 'British people of Irish descent'. Aldij (talk) 14:00, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, there is only one article in this category and it does not match. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
delete: redundant and not particularly useful, per above. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 07:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Chief Ministers of Anguilla
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Nominator's rationale: Up until 2019 the office was known as Chief Minister of Anguilla, but the Anguilla Constitution (Amendment) Order 2019 renamed the position as Premier. Aldij (talk) 12:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, presuming it is just a name change of the office and nothing else. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:26, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, redirecting is certainly a good idea. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's rationale: Only 1 member as a notable alumnus. I have listed him along with 2 faculty members in the article Clarks Summit University. – FayenaticLondon 11:28, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have added the parent Category:Clarks Summit University which would then be a case of WP:C2F. No merging is needed. – FayenaticLondon 08:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is an obvious consequence. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:31, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Mistresses of Louis Philippe II, Duke of Orléans
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Nominator's rationale: Only sovereigns have mistresses categories, even then when there sufficient enough to warrent it. Only two articles in this. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:24, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, only two articles in the category, this is not helpful for navigation. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:24, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Mistresses of Frederick, Prince of Wales
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Nominator's rationale: Only sovereigns have categories for mistresses. In any case, there are only two articles (confirmed mistresses) in this category. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:19, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Ok, it is a very small category, but it's news to me that only sovereigns have categories for mistresses. Where is Wikipedia policy on this? PatGallacher (talk) 13:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PatGallacher, it's just an observation, I wasn't stating any rule. Every such category belongs to a sovereign of a nation except for two, both of which are small (only two articles each). I personally think these particular categories (for mistresses) should be limited to sovereigns who were known for having many mistresses. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do have mistresses of John F. Kennedy, Julius Caesar and Benito Mussolini. PatGallacher (talk) 16:11, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PatGallacher, sorry I meant for royalty. We can't create categories for any male royal known to keep mistresses. Its best to keep royal mistresses categories for specific royals to sovereigns while the rest can be sorted into Category:Mistresses of British royalty. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, only two articles in the category, this is not helpful for navigation. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:25, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Fast & Furious lists
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Nominator's rationale: No need for a cat that has two articles. It can be safely upmerged and individual articles can be merged up to any other relevant cats. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to relevant categories the nominator's reasoning makes logical sense. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:24, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, those are relevant cats. I like it. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Books by Ivar Hippe
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Nominator's rationale: Unhelpful for navigation. There's no epon parent category and only one book in here. Mason (talk) 04:55, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Aerial operations and battles of World War II involving the Netherlands
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Category:Futurist photography
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Nominator's rationale: There's only one person in this entire category tree. The parent category (Futurist photography) only contains this category. Mason (talk) 02:26, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 06:31, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Russian Futurist composers
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Nominator's rationale: Duel merge for now. this category is really narrow and the parent category (Futurist composers ) isn't in need to diffusion yet. Mason (talk) 02:22, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 06:31, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Modernist women composers
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Nominator's rationale: Narrow category at the intersection of occupation, gender, and specific movement. The only person in the category is already in the right parent categories Mason (talk) 02:24, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Climate change filmmakers
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Delete, one article isn't really about a filmmaker, the other article isn't really about climate change. I do not have a conceptual objection to the category though. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:21st-century Polish cinematographers
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Nominator's rationale: The norm has been that modern professions like modeling, cinematographers, etc aren't diffused by century. Mason (talk) 02:16, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Landforms of Akmola Region
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