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April 24

Category:Bauxite, Arkansas

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Keep Timrollpickering (talk) 10:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Category with just one entry. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Acting theorists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. bibliomaniac15 18:23, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: After there not being consensus to delete these categories per the recent discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 2#Category:Acting theorists, there still seems to be the issue regarding the fact that pages such as Acting theory, Acting theorist, Acting theorists, etc. so not exist, meaning that there is no reference of what the term "Acting theorist" means. However, during the discussion, it seems to somewhat be determined that the subjects of the articles listed in these categories could be considered practitioners of Dramatic theory. So with that being said, I'm proposing these categories be moved to respective "Dramatic theorist" titles so there is a parent article for the main subject of these categories. Steel1943 (talk) 20:23, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:WBZ

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete subcats, keep parent. – Fayenatic London 06:27, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: We generally don't do categories for specific stations; its only entries are WBZ (AM), WBZ-TV (but, oddly enough, not WBZ-FM, or former WBZ-FM WMJX) — and a subcategory that categorizes performers by performance, which we don't do either. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 20:02, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ancient Roman architecture by location

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac15 19:29, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Ancient Roman architecture by location to Category:Ancient Roman architecture of modern countries and territories
Nominator's rationale: rename to clarify that these are modern locations, analogous to Category:Roman history of modern countries and territories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:58, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rename but to Category:Ancient Roman buildings and structures by modern country. All the sub-cats are modern countries, except "Africa" and "North Africa" subcats which are unnecessary layer and would be much better merged into the same target, as a follow-up to this. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • This alternative is a clear improvement over the nomination for two reasons. Buildings and structures is more to the point than architecture, and North Africa is indeed an odd exception in this category tree that could well be removed. For now, because the North African subcat has not been nominated as such, it should be moved to the parent category if this alternative rename is going to be implemented. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:58, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United Kingdom business culture

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 10:22, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge, the content of this category has little to do with Business culture. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:2021s-album-stub

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting ((2021s-album-stub))
Nominator's rationale: Created in error as similar album stubs are by decade (((2020s-album-stub)), ((1990s-album-stub)), etc.). StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 19:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Her Pegship (I'm listening) 23:35, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Grutness...wha? 04:51, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American short story writers of Arab descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. I've combed through each article in the cat and all of them are already listed in subcategories of Category:American writers of Arab descent (Lebanese, Syrian, etc.), as well as being in a "short story writer" category. Hence, the category can be deleted. bibliomaniac15 17:56, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging Category:American short story writers of Arab descent to Category:American writers of Arab descent
Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to Category:American short story writers. Small triple intersection that is unlikely to grow and probably violates WP:OCEGRS. User:Namiba 19:28, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: This category is already listed under Category:American short story writers by ethnic or national origin, so there is no need to upmerge it into the parent category. Also, this category parallels existing categories for short story writers of African American, Asian American, Latino, Jewish American, and Native American descent. Aristophanes68 (talk) 05:45, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The latter is not correct, there isn't, for example, a Category:American short story writers of Native American descent. Please do not confuse ethnicity with descent. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:03, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Marcocapelle: I notice you have not yet voiced an opinion about your desired outcome, despite this comment. Let me kindly invite you to do so as it may help in reaching a decision. Place Clichy (talk) 08:32, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Frankly I am not fully convinced that this nomination solves a problem. With this proposal, the articles will just be moved from one category with issues to another category with the same issues. So I will stick to a weak support per borderline WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:23, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American short story writers of Taiwanese descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 17:57, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to Category:American short story writers. Small triple intersection that is unlikely to grow and probably violates WP:OCEGRS. User:Namiba 19:27, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No need to upmerge as it is already a subcat of American short story writers via the ethnic/national origin category. This argument goes for all proposed upmerges below. Aristophanes68 (talk) 05:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American X of X descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 17:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to Category:American dramatists and playwrights. Small triple intersection that is unlikely to grow and probably violates WP:OCEGRS. User:Namiba 19:26, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I started by nominating the small categories. When this discussion is closed, I will probably nominated the entire tree per WP:OCEGRS.--User:Namiba 14:31, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Aristophanes68: I accept that there are niche academic uses like that, but I believe that they are too small a niche to justify cluttering articles with these categories. For niche uses like that, researchers would be better advised to use a tool such as WP:Petscan, which they can use to construct their own custom queries. The WP:REFERENCEDESK should have some guidance on how to use categories in this way, tho I fear that the guidance doesn't exist yet. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:47, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WikiData can also be used to get lists of people (for example) with a particular combination of characteristics - and that has the advantage of including people who only have an article in another language wp. DexDor (talk) 12:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Peers nominated by Paddy Ashdown

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 13#Category:Peers nominated by Paddy Ashdown

Category:Street trees of New York City

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 19:32, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: not a defining characteristic of these species Hyperik ⌜talk⌟ 18:15, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep If anything a move to the broader Category:Trees of New York City makes sense. This list is important as New York City is a prime example of a densely populated North American urban forest. I belive there should be tree lists from any city with over 1,000,000 people as trees are an important part of Carbon sequestration. --Wil540 art (talk) 18:22, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Many of the articles (e.g. Ginkgo biloba) make no mention of New York so it's clearly non-defining. WP:RGW. DexDor (talk) 07:01, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Military brats

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 10:26, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Being a military brat is a non-defining characteristic. It is almost never "appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article" as required per WP:NONDEF. User:Namiba 16:42, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No more so than many other things that we don't categorize on: being brought up by a single parent, being brought up poor, being a middle (or oldest, or youngest) child, being a foreign service "brat", etc. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:59, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus can change, so it is entirely proper to have another discussion of it after ten years, but that previous discussion should have been linked by the nominator ... especially since that 2010 discussion was started[1] by User:Namiba, who also nominated it this time. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
Yes, the term "military brat" does exist, and the head article documents its usage. The concept is much broader than the American term which is used as the category name, but a renaming (or creation of differently-named subcats for other cultures) would not solve the fundamental problem of the category, which is that fails the tests set out in WP:NONDEF. I checked a random set of ten articles on the first page of the category, and only one the of ten mentioned a military upbringing in the lead section ... and that was Francisco Franco, who is an exceptional case. (Military dictators are a tiny proportion of the category's entries). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:10, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Pamphleteers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Option A Timrollpickering (talk) 10:28, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging either:
Option A
or
Option B
Nominator's rationale: Duplicates: the terms "pamphleteer" and "pamphlet writer" have the same meaning. They should be merged in one direction or the other, and redirects should be retained.
I prefer Option A, because the head article is at Pamphleteer, and is also the term used in dictionaries, e.g. Merriam Webster.
Note that Category:Pamphlet writers is an older creation ... but it was created by a notorious creator of badly named categories, who after being blocked became a prolific sockpuppeteer. So I give no weight to its creation. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry @Oculi. Option B now fixed.
And thanks for that reminder of PW's absurdities. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:34, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:UAE Goldcard Holder

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 10:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Sounds like some sort of credit card. We certainly have no article for it. Edwardx (talk) 09:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for Now Looks like it's a permanent visa program for residents]. It needs a main article before we can even consider whether it's defining. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:51, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rationale from creator:UAE recently started giving long-term visa (just like green cards in US) to non-citizens. It has been reported that only 400 such visas were given on invitation. Therefore, having this category to tag the persons, who UAE considers have contributed significantly will be a feather in the caps of the recipients. In my view, this category may be worth when comparing to some of the categories like 1902 births, 1978 deaths. Just my two cents. CharlestonMaani(talk) 19:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a category for Category:Green Card holders though. RevelationDirect (talk) 14:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Economics paradoxes

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 9#Category:Economics paradoxes

Category:JO1

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 10:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON. Only one other article besides the category's eponymous article. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 03:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Caddie Hall of Fame inductees

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Caddie Hall of Fame inductees
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:OCASSOC, and WP:OVERLAPCAT)
The Caddie Hall of Fame recognizes professional golf caddies. This Wikipedia category is mostly professional golfers and others who caddied in their youth; look at Max Elbin, Old Tom Morris, Willie Park Sr., John Shippen to see what I mean. Within the actual caddie articles, this award is generally mentioned in passing and doesn't seem defining. (There's also an overlap issue: of the 8 articles here actually about professional caddies, 7 are in Category:American caddies, and, conversely, 7 of the 9 article in that category are in this one.) The winners of this award, most of whom don't have a Wikipedia article, are already listified here in the list article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reply When they were caddies doesn't have anything to do with the list but categories have to defining and the pro golfers have articles because of their pro golfing, not for a job they had in their youth so being a caddie is not defining for them. We have two overlapping American categories for caddies: one of which consists entirely of people defined by being caddies and another where a minority of members are defined by being caddies. Improvements to the article are, of course, welcome and I have no intention of nominating it for AFD. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Thank you for your answer. I do understand your response about pro golfers not being defined by being caddies. I'm just not sure I understand how we reconcile the hall of fame definition against the categories we can define. Meaning the hall of fame is saying they are all defined; and can we really go on an article-by-article basis to determine which subjects can be defined by this category and which can't?
Also, the list article is cluttered and a category of just the ones who have articles is nice. And, I need to clarify that my concern with the list article's close paraphrasing template was not directed at you taking action. I did not write this up the way I should have. All it takes is the right person driving by and good bye article. For example, an article I was familiar with for some time, created in 2009, Margaret Formby, was cited for close paraphrasing in October 2019. It's now a stub article. There are so many more cases of issues I have seen happen with templates on articles, such that I don't like to leave loose ends on articles I work with. But I am just here to learn and comment on this particular CfD. I ask and comment on all these issues in good faith. dawnleelynn(talk) 03:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The list included a lot of flowery prose extolling the virtues of the winners and why they won the award. I reworded and shortened those and removed the close paraphrase tag, along with some other cleanup. The article could certainly use some more improvements but I don't think it's in danger of an AFD now. RevelationDirect (talk) 12:08, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RevelationDirect I very very much appreciate the work you did on the list article. That was so nice of you! I still am learning the how the guidelines work for overlap. I think it makes sense in some cases and not in others. As for defining, I do recall the World Golf Hall of Fame, and believed it was a clear case of a category that was defining. They are adding Tiger Woods this year, btw. And now I am seeing that I can't necessarily say that I believe that as strongly for this category. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:24, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, remember that a "defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having". There's a huge difference between the two Hall of Fames. Being in the World Golf Hall of Fame is important. You can find articles including text like "World Golf Hall of Famer Tom Kite". Ian Woosnam made a big fuss about not being in. There are campaigns to get people in (Ted Ray (golfer) comes to mind). We reflect that by having a link to their web site in ((Infobox golfer)) for those who are in it. By contrast, the Caddie Hall of Fame is of little interest. A few caddies are notable but many of the Caddie Hall of Famers are not notable as caddies, eg Jack Nicklaus. It's certainly not "defining" for him. Others like Tom Dreesen seems to have little connection with golf at all, its not "defining" for them either. We are left with a few people notable as caddies: Fanny Sunesson and Steve Williams (caddie) come to mind. However, even for them I don't think anyone's going to say "Caddie Hall of Famer Steve Williams". No, more likely "Steve Williams, Tiger Wood's long-time caddie" (or similar). So it's not "defining" for them either. Nigej (talk) 08:45, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nigej Thank you so much for that explanation. It was very helpful. dawnleelynn(talk) 13:39, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:World Snooker Hall of Fame inductees

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting Category:World Snooker Hall of Fame inductees
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:V and WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:OCASSOC)
Wikipedia doesn't have an article on the World Snooker Hall of Fame and I'm having trouble finding an official web site. There is an article about it (or a similar award) here and here so it exists or existed and celebrated snooker players. Of the 29 articles in this category, 4 mention it in passing while 25 don't mention it at all. I listified the current contents here so no work is lost if anyone thinks they can establish verifiability and notability to create a main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely would favor creating an article if possible. Most of the Hall of Fame articles are just like you pictured: an introductory paragraphy followed by a list. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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