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December 7

Category:People associated with the Dissolution of the Monasteries

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCASSOC, as a too vague basis for categorization. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:33, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Historic events are not artistic performances by any stretch of the imagination. Hmains (talk) 17:42, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is similar to performing because it's accidental and incidental, not defining. Apart from wars (which are more a period than an event) I doubt if we have any other "people associated with historic event" categories. And if we do, they should probably be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:15, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • perpetrators and victims of a crime (if this is what it is) are not 'accidental and incidental'. Hmains (talk) 19:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • That obvious fact changes nothing. Hmains (talk) 17:24, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • We don't categorize politicians by political event. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:26, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Movable Western Christian observances

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:05, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging Category:Movable Western Christian observances to Category:Moveable Christian observances
  • Propose merging Category:Movable Eastern Christian observances to Category:Moveable Christian observances
Nominator's rationale: merge these two categories together, they are currently each based on a trivial triple intersection. "Western" and "Eastern" have nothing to do with movability. A potential more relevant intersection would be "Christian Sunday observances" and "Christian Easter-based observances" since these characteristics are related to both Christianity and to movability. (Note: movability in this context refers to a movable calendar date, not to the liturgical year.) Marcocapelle (talk) 21:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is nothing against having a tree for Category:Eastern Orthodox liturgical days‎ on its own, it is just the intersection with moveability that goes a bit far. Even more so because almost half of the articles in the Eastern category are also in the Western sibling. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:04, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, listification is much better, also because a few of these observances are celebrated in just one country, that kind of information can be included in the table as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:09, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I did listify them already. The lists are List of movable Western Christian observances and List of movable Eastern Christian observances. Asarelah (talk) 15:31, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be more useful to have one common list as a table in which one can easily see which days are celebrated by which denomination. The overlap between Western and Eastern would become much clearer, and the distinction within Western and Eastern would become more clear as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:11, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Vagrant birds of Europe

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). After the previous discussion it would be a matter of common sense to close this discussion as delete anyway. In addition, the appeal to WP:OVERLAPCAT was not contested. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 08:14, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of Europe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds (currently empty)
  • Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of North America
  • Propose deleting Category:Vagrant birds of the Caribbean (currently empty)
Nominator's rationale: WP:NON-DEFINING - These categories were inadvertently omitted from Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_November_23#Category:Vagrant_birds_of_Africa. DexDor (talk) 19:25, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Birds that do not migrate should only be listed in the "birds of..." cat., that either corresponds to their residential and/or breeding range (both are conterminous). Birds' ranges are generally displayed according to two factors: native range (breeding or residential) and wintering range (cf. IUCN, BirdLife Int. etc.) ; I don't see why we should list birds exclusively according to their vaguely misleading generic sphere of presence. --Couiros22 (talk) 08:28, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Because there are too many possible permutations to avoid anything else being WP:OCAT. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, because those "other categorizations" are trivial in comparison :-( --Couiros22 (talk) 11:00, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Couiros22, you continue to show that you don't really understand the biological terminology in use here. Native in the biological sense means that an organism naturally occurs in an area (as opposed to being introduced). Species that overwinter in an area are native too! MeegsC (talk) 14:00, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A wintering birds category would be also be useful, which for some trivial reason you refuse to acknowledge.
Please provide a valid definition of what a 'native bird' is and how it is applicable to regions where birds go only to escape the cold winter. --Couiros22 (talk) 17:15, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
'It's useful' is not a solid criterion. Definition of 'native bird' = 'not introduced by mankind'. I'm frankly astonished you have to ask that. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:41, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it's useful, because distinguishing birds according to their seasonal repartition is a major aspect. --Couiros22 (talk) 07:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference between native and migratory ; ie. many sites make the distinction, such as this one : http://nevadawild.org/native-and-migratory-birds-in-nevada/. --Couiros22 (talk) 07:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but for categorisation, usefulness is not the be-all and end-all. And that site may use "native" wrongly, but that doesn't mean that we should. In biology, "native" means "lives there naturally, without having been introduced by man", full stop. I.E. an American Robin is native in North America, the Rock Pigeon is not. It doesn't matter whether the robin is wintering or, a mere 20 miles north, lives year-round, it's still native. Categorising birds by where they naturally occur is reasonable. Categorising birds by when they occur is overcategorisation. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:21, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it wrong to specify the wintering birds from the rest in a separate cat. though ? --Couiros22 (talk) 09:19, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
First you need to define "wintering birds". If one or two pairs, tops, nest in an area, but the same area is overrun with the species in winter, does it count? If one bird every few years appears in winter, does it count? Why not, then, also categorise by summer residency, permament residency, migration? Especially at the continent level, this level of granularity in categorisation is in fact dis-useful to the readers. This is information for List of birds of Foo, not categories. - The Bushranger One ping only 09:30, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Two major bird list references (Avibase & BirdLife International) highlight to important asects : the common range (whether only breeding or permanently residential throughout the year) and wintering ranges ; both websites tend to corroborate each other 99% ; hence we can have a well-defined interpretation of the common and wintering ranges for every bird species. We could also include the handful of summer ranges into a 'migrant birds' cat. rather than a 'wintering birds cat'. All in all, how would that pose a problem ? --Couiros22 (talk) 09:50, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OCAT. (Also, your comment "handful of summer ranges into a migrant birds cat" - statments like this make me scratch my head, summer range =/= migratory, and there's more than a "handful" of species that have seperate summering ranges...) - The Bushranger One ping only 10:33, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please refer to the section relevant to this discussion ? Also, from my browsing experience, only a very modest amount of birds have summer ranges. --Couiros22 (talk) 10:41, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OVERLAPCAT. At the continent level, most birds will have summer, resident, and winter ranges on different parts of the continent. This means either they will have to be in multiple overlapping categories, or just "resident" in which case it carries the implication they do not migrate. In addition, in many cases birds that are found in the same area in summer and winter are not the same birds - Blue Jays, for example, fly south for the winter, but are replaced by birds that summered further north, producing the appearance of residency. Also, if I may speak very frankly? Given that in the original discussion you implied you believed "vagrant birds" was a suitable term for winter residents, and you believed then and still state now that "summering birds are extremely rare", I would suggest you step back and study birds and their ranges for a while before returning to attempting to categorise them by range. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:50, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The breeding and residential areas are always conterminous ; therefore there is only the need to distinguish between common range (whether breeding only or residential) and wintering ranges.
Could you please specify how summer ranges are significantly as important as wintering ranges ? --Couiros22 (talk) 11:09, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The breeding and residential areas are always conterminous - While technically true, there is still a difference, as the vast majority of North American hummingbirds, flycatchers, warblers, and other neotropical migrants will happily tell you. Maybe only a small handful of birds have summer-only ranges in Europe, but it's dramatically different in other parts of the world. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If only you could provide a handful of such examples (from the BirdLife Int. site) of birds with :
a) widely separated breeding and residential ranges
b) summer ranges --Couiros22 (talk) 07:57, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Acadian Flycatcher, Purple Martin, Mexican Whip-poor-will, to list three of hundreds. Forgive me for using strong emphasis here, but birds with summer-only ranges are not rare, or even uncommon, and by continually claiming they are and demanding multiple levels of proof that they are not you are simply demonstrating that you should consider following the First Law of Holes. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:20, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

They aren't summer ranges (only the winter ranges overlapping into the southern hemisphere can be considered as summer ranges, but not in the sense of *like wintering ranges* migrating before the summer to escape the warm temperatures.
How do any of these ranges display a relevant disparity between breeding and residential range ?
The only thing wrong with the category is its title, which should be renamed "wintering" or "migrant birds". Apart from that, what is wrong in categorizing birds according to their common range ("birds of...") and their migrant range ? --Couiros22 (talk) 08:41, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
...that...I...literally have no idea how to respond to that beyond quoting Kermit the Frog about being "100% wrong". I'm sorry, but you have clearly demonstrated you have no idea how bird ranges actually work and you keep insisting on more and more detailed refutations of your misunderstandings, so I am withdrawing from this conversation, as I believe it speaks for itself. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:59, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Reciprocally, i.e. :
a) when birds have summer ranges, they are clearly displayed on the Birdlife Int. website (in a different color)
b) birds having different breeding and summer ranges are still conterminous (without necessarily overlapping) compared to their wintering ranges
Hence, the onus is still on you to demonstrate why common and migrant range are not the two preeminent ranges worthy of categorization. --Couiros22 (talk) 07:21, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
...since this raises a new question: you do realise there are many birds for which there is no such thing as a "permament resident" range, right? - The Bushranger One ping only 07:32, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but when they do, they are conterminous to other breeding ranges rather than wintering range. --Couiros22 (talk) 07:49, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:04, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That there are two main outstanding ranges worthy of categorization :
- common (breeding and/or year-round residential)
- wintering range (or migrant range if winter and summer ranges are included together in the same cat.). --Couiros22 (talk) 08:17, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
...there is no such thing as "common" range. "Common" refers to abundance, not range. "Migrant range" is not WP:DEFINING. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:54, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
They are simply categorized as "birds of...", so I don't see where the problem lies.
Which part of the page you referred to suggests that "migrant birds of..." is over-categorization ? --Couiros22 (talk) 10:22, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American people who have committed sexual harassment

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. WP:BLP, WP:SNOW, WP:NOTBURO. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:American people who have committed sexual harassment (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Created and subsequently depopulated category, potentially with serious BLP issues. See also Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Category:American people who have committed sexual harassment. GMGtalk 15:15, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:National parks of Greenland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) feminist (talk) 02:12, 16 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This was nominated at CFDS, on the grounds that the rest of the National parks of foo tree uses "in", not "of", for subnational categories, and it was objected to on the grounds that Greenland is, technically, a country (if still subordinate to Denmark), and it is somewhat unclear as to whether it's a Danish national park or a Greenlandic national park. Accordingly, this should be discussed here. Given that the park in question - Northeast Greenland National Park - is referred to in its article as having been the "first national park to be created in the Kingdom of Denmark" (emphasis mine), I believe this move is the appropriate one. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:51, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion from CFDS for reference
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Keys of Florida

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Islands of Florida. (non-admin closure) feminist (talk) 16:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This is textbook categorisation by shared name. The only significant characteristic of the contents of this category is the presence of "key" in the name, and none of them are actually cays (sandy islands atop coral reefs), but rather islands that were given the name "key" because it would attract tourists. The Bushranger One ping only 11:32, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Cedar Key, Florida (the city) is on 'Way Key', one of the 'Cedar Keys' cluster of islands. The Cedar Keys redirect needs to be categorized as an island, not this city.
Longboat Key, Florida (the town) is on a barrier island of the same name. It is the redirect Longboat Key that needs to be categorized as an island, not this town.
Lovers Key State Park says that the state park is on 4 barrier islands: 'Lover's Key', 'Black Island', 'Inner Key' and 'Long Key', not otherwise described.
Manasota Key, Florida is a census designated place in Charlotte County. 'Manasota Key' refers to a peninsula/barrier island that is in both Charlotte and Sarasota Counties. It is the redirect Manasota Key that needs to be categorized as an island, not this place.
Perdido Key, Florida is an unincorporated community on 'Perdido Key' which includes more land that what is just occupied by 'Perdido Key, Florida'. It is the redirect Perdido Key that needs to be categorized as an island, not this community.
Hmains (talk) 17:10, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • But how does this counter the WP:SHAREDNAME rationale of the nomination? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The articles are also about the islands. The content on the islands in question is on the pages, which happen to be titled for the communities that share the same area as the islands. There are times where categorising redirects is a useful thing to do, but when the article actually covers the subject in question, it is more useful for the reader for the article, on the island, to be categorised in the island category. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:33, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • This type of coverage is true of most redirected-to-articles and changes nothing about the desirability of having and using redirects with the appropriate categories. Also, as I pointed out in my summary above of each article, it is not always true that the communities and islands exactly share the same land space or the same name. Hmains (talk) 20:37, 16 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indigenous Australians from Western Australia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:10, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: C2.C per Category:Indigenous Australian people and Category:People from Western Australia. I am listing the category here instead of WP:CFD/S because it was previously nominated with a "no consensus" outcome, mainly due to lack of agreement on whether the category is needed. (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:09, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC) [reply]
I would not oppose that, though the American analogy is imperfect, as I do not think there are any equivalents of reservations in Australia. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:11, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Black Falcon: If we keep "from" then we do not need "Australian", it would be totally weird to add a native American with residence in Western Australia in Category:Indigenous people from Western Australia. With "in" we might have some ambiguity, but not with "from". Marcocapelle (talk) 07:51, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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