- Category:Northern Irish Queen's Counsel to Category:Queen's Counsel from Northern Ireland – C2C: per convention of Category:People from Northern Ireland. Please retain the old title as a ((category redirect)) BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. I think the more relevant convention is that of Category:Queen's Counsel which use the current style. Number 57 20:54, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Number 57: the demonym-phrase overrules the occupational category convention, see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_January_7#Category:Northern_Irish_people and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_July_13. – Fayenatic London 20:28, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Fayenatic london: I can't really respond in detail right now as don't have laptop access, but in summary I believe the idea that we shouldn't use the phrase Northern Irish is a fringe POV pushed by some Irish nationalists that should not have gained any credence on Wikipedia. Both of the discussions you linked to were proposals from the notorious editor Vintagekits, who was indef blocked years ago due to his unacceptable behaviour (and just to clarify, I am not putting BHG in the same category as Vintagekits et al.). Number 57 23:18, 10 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Number 57: well, here's an interesting situation. IMHO C2C still permits speedy renaming, because there is a convention that is well defined and overwhelmingly used within the hierarchy. Only C2D mentions "uncontroversial"; C2C doesn't. But if you still object and would prefer a full CfD, then let's go that way. – Fayenatic London 15:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes please (whilst I appreciate there is a naming convention on the Northern Ireland side, there is also one on the Queen's Counsel side, and I think it might be worth raising the Northern Irish issue again for a more reasoned discussion now that some of the more combative editors in that field are no longer with us). And I'm not sure what you're saying – even if there are objections, the category should still be moved if it's clear there is a well-defined convention? That's not my experience (I recall a couple of C2C nominations I made here that were objected to despite conventions being in place). Cheers, Number 57 21:41, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I'm saying that the wording above allows a well-defined convention to be applied speedily even if there are objections. Perhaps the others that you referred to were not processed speedily because there was some ambiguity. In this case, although there is a clash of two conventions, it is clear which one should override the other. However, I'm not going to push it. – Fayenatic London 06:57, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- A good compromise which I would favour that I wish would get more attention would be "Northern Ireland FOOs". Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:07, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Good Olfactory's proposal seems to be the best solution for the whole category tree, but in that case we'd need to rediscuss Category:Northern Irish people. Should we do so? Absolutely. But is there someone willing to prepare a nomination? --PanchoS (talk) 09:46, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Sigh.
- Number 57's comments about the January 2009 CFR which created this convention are disappointing. At least 13 editors !voted in that discussion, and its outcome (by a clear margin) has been stable for 7 years .. so whatever anyone's view of the rest of the activities of the long-since-banned Vintagekits, his proposal in this case has been shown to have a durable consensus.
Similarly, the July 2009 CFR was approved with zero opposes. I find it rather sad to see the concerns of Irish editors being dismissed as "fringe" ... and BTW, AFAICS, only 1 out of 6 editors in the July 2009 discussion was Irish.
- If Number 57 objects to the convention applied to dozens of categories, then the way to raise that issue is to open a group CFR to rename all the effected categories, rather than to obstruct the harmomisation of a lone outlier. If and when the convention is changed, then this category can be changed along with it ... but until then, the objection serves no useful purpose. It just maintains an outlier, whose non-std format impedes categorisation.
- Same for Good Olfactory's proposal for a "Northern Ireland fooers" format. . Whatever the merits of that idea (I'm not persuaded so far), it would need a group CFR. This isn't the place to pursue it.
- In the meantime, please can this speedy just proceed? It won't prejudice any future proposal to change the convention, so I can see no gain to anyone from leaving this outlier uncorrected. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:22, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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