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July 4

Category:Dutch-language LGBT writers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep, as those opposing deletion have presented substantial evidence for the notability of this intersection as a topic. – Fayenatic London 15:08, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: While Category:LGBT writers are appropriately subcategorized by nationality, we do not currently have any consensus to also subcategorize them by the language in which they wrote — or, indeed, any other "LGBT writers by language" siblings for this at all. Delete, though some caution is warranted to ensure that people aren't getting removed from the more appropriate Category:LGBT writers from the Netherlands and/or Category:LGBT writers from Belgium in the process. Bearcat (talk) 21:22, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of the Category:LGBT writers by nationality tree was for occupational diffusion of Category:LGBT people by nationality categories — so it's valid on size management purposes regardless of whether you think it's the most culturally relevant distinction or not. The problem with grouping LGBT writers by language, apart from the fact that there aren't any other siblings for it, is that it's not a useful point of categorization in combination with LGBTness — the language in which a writer happened to write about LGBT issues doesn't change the nature of those LGBT issues in any notable or significant way. Bearcat (talk) 21:29, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry if this ruffles your feathers on idealised categorization schemes.
Again, I'm not speaking about English-language LGBT writers. No clue what works best there.
Re. "the language in which a writer happened to write about LGBT issues doesn't change the nature of those LGBT issues in any notable or significant way." — For Dutch-language LGBT writers maybe not the nature of these issues, but certainly the way they wrote about it. Please catch up on your reading before attempting to tear down the level of this debate in such way. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:38, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The insinuation that my happening to disagree with you on the utility of this category implies that I "haven't caught up on my reading" is unwelcome, uncivil and inappropriate. I'm quite well on top (have been for twenty years or more) of any and all reading that I have any obligation to undertake on "educating myself on LGBT issues" grounds, thank you kindly. Bearcat (talk) 18:40, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"the language in which a writer happened to write about LGBT issues doesn't change the nature of those LGBT issues in any notable or significant way" is imho a platitude that doesn't help this discussion in any way.
The issue discussed here is whether there is a strong link between Dutch-language authors writing on LGBT issues, and whether such linking is stronger than links across the French/Dutch language border in Belgium, on these same topics. Catching up on my reading, on LGBT topics the links within the Dutch-language group appear to be stronger than those between Flemish and Walloon authors, much more than I had imagined when entering this discussion. I was wrong to direct the invitation to catch up on reading exclusively @Bearcat, I should have written: "let's catch up on our reading" as an open invitation (no obligation of any kind intended). If this came over in a wrong way, or if it appeared I was insinuating something I wasn't intending to insinuate, please accept my apologies: there was no such intention on my part.
Maybe there are strong sources indicating links between Belgian LGBT writers (or LGBT writing) across the French/Dutch language border but I haven't found them although looking for them. The strongest I could find was the first Belgian LGBT organization (modelled on COC from the Netherlands) which existed a few years and published a few French/Dutch bilingual texts, until COC Flanders split off (for an episode that lasted many more decades), and the overarching Belgian organisation dissolved. As for the actual writers I could find no names establishing links between Flemish North and Walloon South of Belgium regarding what was written on LGBT topics. So please, for me it makes no difference if these are found in old or (re)new(ed) reading, if there is something outweighing the abundant evidence from my updated reading below, just mention it. --Francis Schonken (talk) 14:46, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This one may be a good start: http://scripties.let.eldoc.ub.rug.nl/root/Master/DoorstroomMasters/Nederlands/2013/DuisJ.ten/ — it compares the reception history of the English-language The Well of Loneliness with that of 7 Dutch-language lesbian novels by writers from Flanders and the Netherlands. For instance, "In Nederland was de ontvangst van De bron van eenzaamheid positiever dan in Engeland." (p. 26 - In the Netherlands The Well of Loneliness was more positively received than in England), etc. --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:37, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Additional sources that show that no overview of LGBT writers in the low countries ever limits itself exclusively to what was published in the Netherlands or alternatively exclusively to what was published in Flanders/Belgium:
  • Saskia Geurds and Thomas de Heide Waarom zijn er meer homobladen voor mannen dan voor vrouwen?. Fontys Hogeschool Journalistiek, Tilburg (27 mei 2013)
  • Gert Hekma. Homoseksualiteit in Nederland van 1730 tot de moderne tijd. narcis.nl (1 January 2004)
→ This one is particularily interesting: it purports to discuss homosexuality in the Netherlands exclusively (see introduction), and indeed it does so, *except* for literature, where, as always, the Flemish authors are included.
  • Adriaan Venema. Homosexualiteit in de Nederlandse literatuur Amsterdam/Brussel, Paris-Manteau (1972). ISBN 9022303063
  • Jos Versteegen. "Nederlandse gay literatuur in de tweede helft van de jaren '90: Een overzicht" in Gay 2000 (1999)
  • Hans Warren (editor). Herenliefde (1995) — a selection of homoerotic stories by Louis Couperus, Tom Lannoye, Maarten 't Hart, Gerrit Komrij, Eric de Kuyper, A. F. Th. van der Heijden and Bas Heijne.
→ for your convenience I used two coulours: LGBT writers from the Netherlands and LGBT writers from Flanders
--Francis Schonken (talk) 08:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "distinct and unique cultural topic" by external sources:
  • Head article has been written: LGBT writers in the Dutch-language area
  • Comparisons to English literature are meaningless. Flanders and the Netherlands are, of course, a close-knit group when it comes to literature and writers (for those who know anything about it), more so than Dutch (Flemish) and French (Wallon) literature in Belgium. E.g., generally literary prizes are for Dutch-language authors accross the Belgium/Netherlands border, while there are few (if any?) literary prizes for "Belgians" independent of language. (all of this and much more is explained in the LGBT writers in the Dutch-language area article). That the LGBT writers are a specific group within this Dutch-language group of writers is exemplified by the external sources quoted above, and again by further referenced content of the head article.
  • I oppose the idea that reality should adapt to pre-conceived ideas about English literature, and to Wikipedia categorization pigeonholes for other cultures derived from it, very much. WP:EGRS establishes the reasoning behind this, not comparison to other languages (which is merely WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). --Francis Schonken (talk) 04:27, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hispanic people of Converso descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 22:52, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Hispanic people of Converso descent to Category:Latin American people of Converso descent
Nominator's rationale: If I understand the correctly, the term "Hispanic" is mainly used within the United States. However, the single articles in this category are for people in other (Latin American) countries than the United States, so "Hispanic" seems to be less appropriate and "Latin American" may be more appropriate. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:17, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities members

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. For reference, in case further similar actions are needed, the parent of this category is Category:Universities and colleges in the United States by association. – Fayenatic London 07:59, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities members (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Which associations a university/college is a member of is not generally a WP:DEFINING characteristic (I checked a sample of articles in this category and not one mentioned this association in the article text, let alone in the lead). For info: This is part of a series of CFDs for membership of university associations (e.g. see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_June_15#Category:Worldwide_Universities_Network). For info: According to the NAICU article, this association has over 1000 members. DexDor (talk) 21:15, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:East Lancashire Coachbuilders

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: split to Category:East Lancs buses, rename the other two. – Fayenatic London 07:12, 19 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Split. Most sub-cats of Category:Buses by manufacturer end in "buses". The second and third nominated categories do not have sufficient content to justify an eponymous category. – Fayenatic London 15:47, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional Baltic people

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 14:35, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Fictional Baltic peoples to Category:Fictional Baltic people
Nominator's rationale: non-controversial/naming-consistency. --108.38.70.215 (talk) 07:52, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Biblical coins

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 10:54, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The main article of the category is Coins in the Bible. Not eligible for speedy renaming as the article was just moved recently, and without an RM. Armbrust The Homunculus 07:30, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Unmanned spaceflight task force

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. I'll also delete the subcategories per WP:UCS. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:48, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Housecleaning deletion. The entire task force was abolished in 2011 but this category and subcategories remain. Ricky81682 (talk) 04:13, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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