< November 29	December 1 >

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The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: An overly narrow and unnecessary splinter category of Category:Cold War documentary films and Category:Documentary films about nuclear war and weapons, in my view. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:21, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as overcategorisation; only contains a single article anyway. Robofish (talk) 01:15, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: no consensus; a future, broader nomination should work this out one way or the other. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:LGBT musicians by nationality to Category:LGBT musicians by country

Nominator's rationale: Rename. There are three other similar categories and they all use "by country". The parent is "by nationality" though so it may be that the other three should be changed instead. Either way, as long as they all end up the same. 70.226.160.214 (talk) 23:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - acceptable subcat of Category:Musicians by nationality. It's the 'by country' categories that are anomalous and should be renamed. Robofish (talk) 01:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Doctor Who. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Vague inclusion criteria, I can't see what connection there is between category and contents. Tim! (talk) 20:54, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Category:Doctor Who. We hardly need much more than one category for a TV series, however popular. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:56, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Arguably almost every Doctor Who-related article could be considered part of its 'history'. Robofish (talk) 01:12, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Doctor Who. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Already deleted once before here. Tim! (talk) 20:54, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Category:Doctor Who. "Whoniverse" appears to be a neologism, and should be salted. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and delete - not necessary, Category:Doctor Who covers the franchise as a whole. Robofish (talk) 01:11, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Doctor Who. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Vague inclusion criteria, I can't see what connection there is between category and contents. Tim! (talk) 20:54, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Category:Doctor Who. We hardly need a separate chronology category for a TV series. "Whoniverse" appears to be a neologism, and should be salted. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and delete. Of no obvious use, and doesn't even contain the one thing you'd expect (a fictional chronology of Doctor Who serials). Robofish (talk) 01:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: This is overcategorization - we dont categorize film by genre and year, just simply genre and decade. Lugnuts (talk) 19:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Breakdown by genre and decade seems sufficient. Shirtwaist ☎ 21:48, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: C2D speedy rename. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Hockey navigational boxes to Category:Inline hockey navigational boxes

Nominator's rationale: Confusing name, since ice hockey and field hockey navboxes are elsewhere. The Wikipedia article is inline hockey, though it might be better known to some as roller hockey.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 16:47, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Sounds good; I don't think I considered that at the time. —Ms2ger (talk) 18:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: keep. These are not time period-based categories; they are music style categories. And like everything else in the former Yugoslavia, this gets filed under "it's complicated."--Mike Selinker (talk) 04:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. In the mentioned period of Yugoslavia there was no clear Serbian nationality to music groups, unless properly referenced by sources. Otherwise not so NPOV. Honorsteem (talk) 12:04, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Same rationale for Category:Serbian New Wave musical groups — Preceding unsigned comment added by Honorsteem (talk • contribs) 12:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As part of the bigger scheme of genre by country. If the problem lies with the article, it should be removed from the category, not the other way around. Lugnuts (talk) 18:31, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Serbia as a country didn't exist in the period (late 1970s–mid-1980s) the category is supposed to cover. -- Honorsteem (talk) 22:41, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Serbia was a republic in Yugoslavia at the time. It had its own language and culture, etc.—which I assume included music. It just wasn't an independent state. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:00, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete Category:Narcotics as a redirect. The best solution might be to make Category:Narcotics some sort of disambiguation category. Users are free to attempt that if they wish. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Narcotics to Category:General anesthetics

Nominator's rationale: Change redirect (or Delete). Currently redirects to Category:Opioids. This is problematic because pages get automatically sorted as opioids even if they aren't. Would Category:General anesthetics be an appropriate redirect target? The only problem might be that "General anesthetics" usually means pharmaceuticals while "Narcotics" can be understood in more general terms. The article Narcotic also says that the term is not well defined (in the US), so simply deleting might avoid confusion. ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 10:38, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Although I agree that "narcotic" is an unscientific term, it is generally understood by the public to mean either opiates, drugs of abuse, or central nervous system depressants. Absent Category:CNS depressants or Category:Drugs of abuse, I think most readers thinking about narcotics would find it useful to be redirected to opioids. In contrast, I don't really think anyone would consider any of the modern inhalation general anesthetics to be narcotics, so I think that general anesthetics would actually be an unhelpful merge. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:26, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Change nom to Delete. "it is generally understood by the public to mean either opiates, drugs of abuse, or central nervous system depressants": That's exactly my problem with this redirect. Sorting an article into this cat without actually opening the category page (eg. with HotCat) will cause a bot to sort the page into Cat:Opioids even if it is actually a drug of abuse, or a central nervous system depressant, or something similar. Category:Opioids already contains a few incorrect articles, but I can't tell whether they were sorted there by this mechanism. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 18:09, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. I agree that Delete makes sense. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
keep as is, which is simply a redirect to Category:Opioids where the article Narcotic exists and shows why this redirect is appropriate. Hmains (talk) 18:22, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Where does it show that? It says the term is imprecise, and so (in my opinion) it does not make a good title for a category, even as a redir (which only shows if the page is actually opened). --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 16:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge; a fresh nomination could be started to consider merging this to Category:Computer scientists. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Women in theoretical computer science to Category:Women computer scientists

Nominator's rationale: see "Women in applied computer science" CfD. Dicklyon (talk) 04:55, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Category:Computer scientists. I see no reason to split them between men and women. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Category:Women computer scientists If we would have wanted a category intersection here it should have been between Category:Computer scientists by field of research and Category:Woman. "Theoretical computer science" is either to coarse or to fine grained here. —Ruud 21:37, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge; a fresh nomination could be started to consider merging this to Category:Computer scientists. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Women in applied computer science to Category:Women computer scientists

Nominator's rationale: The cat "Women computer scientists" was subdivided in an arbitrary and non-useful way by User:Henriettapussycat a few months ago. Lots of women in computer science were assigned by this user to one category or the other. Computer science doesn't split up this cleanly, and most of these women don't fit one category or the other so well. Dicklyon (talk) 04:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Category:Computer scientists. I see no reason to split them between men and women. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a separate proposal that we can consider. Right now it's not what we are discussing; just proposal we undo the recently added level of division of the women computer scientists. Dicklyon (talk) 19:29, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Category:Women computer scientists If we would have wanted a category intersection here it should have been between Category:Computer scientists by field of research and Category:Woman. "Applied computer science" is either to coarse or to fine grained here. It also need to be verified that the woman listed in this category are truly computer scientist and not computer programmers or other computer professionals. —Ruud 21:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:23, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Ukrainian television programming into Category:Ukrainian television programs (or vice versa)

Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category for Ukraine. Note that the Category:Television programming by country has various countries using “programming”, “programs” or “programmes”. Hugo999 (talk) 04:22, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Category:Ukrainian television programming into Category:Ukrainian television programs.--Cattus ^talk 16:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as Cattus proposes in above entry. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:22, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Graduates of the Turkish Military College to Category:Turkish Military College alumni

Propose renaming Category:Graduates of the Ottoman Military College to Category:Ottoman Military College alumni

Nominator's rationale: Per all subcategories of Category:Alumni by university or college in Turkey.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 02:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Graduates of air force academies to Category:Alumni of air force academies

Nominator's rationale: Other such categories use "Alumni" rather than "graduates."-- Mike Selinker (talk) 02:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree on having a standard term. Alumni means ex-student. Remember Tom Lehrer's song, "Halls of Ivy" I think, where he mentions "old graduates and old undergraduates" ie including those who did not graduate or dropped out! Hugo999 (talk) 12:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename all to "Graduates of FULLNAME". This will probably come up again as users notice that these are the only ones that don't use "Alumni of ...". As a closing note, I would only point out that "Alumni of" is more encompassing than "Graduates of", since "alumni" includes all who attended the institution, not just those who graduated from it. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:16, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Woolwich graduates to Category:Alumni of the Royal Military Academy, Woolwich

Propose renaming Category:Sandhurst graduates to Category:Alumni of the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst

Propose renaming Category:RAF College Cranwell graduates to Category:Alumni of the Royal Air Force College Cranwell

Propose renaming Category:Graduates of the Staff College, Camberley to Category:Alumni of the Staff College, Camberley

Propose renaming Category:Britannia Royal Naval College graduates to Category:Alumni of Britannia Royal Naval College

Nominator's rationale: Matching all subcategories of Category:Alumni by university or college in the United Kingdom. No, I don't know why some have commas and some don't.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 02:03, 30 November 2011 (UTC

Military academies are distinct from higher education establishments. The term alumnus is never used (to the best of my knowledge) to refer to someone who has successfully completed a commissioning course at a British military academy. Terminological accuracy trumps category standardization. Greenshed (talk) 12:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is the term alumnus not commonly used because there's something wrong with it, or it the term not commonly used because it's formal? If the former, then keep "graduates", but I suspect the latter is the case. Miracle Pen (talk) 07:51, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that I suspect that the term alumnus is never used not just rarely used. Whether this is because it would be an error to describe a Sandhurst graduate as an alumnus of Sandhurst or not is difficult to say. However, military academies are not principally centres of learning (that nourish and foster their charges in the way that an academic institution does - see the definition of an alumnus) but are more akin to vocational training establishments if one were looking for a parallel in civilian life. Greenshed (talk) 12:10, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The list of Sandhurst graduates is at... List of alumni of the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, remarkably enough! (Not sure why I missed it.) Miracle Pen (talk) 17:53, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A Google search for "alumni" + "sandhurst" does reveal that the term is used so my suspicions were incorrect. However it still sounds wrong and I would be in favour of moving the aforementioned list to List of graduates of the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst.Greenshed (talk) 01:00, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an example of it in use: The Brittania Association's slogan is "The Britannia Association -'Uniting all the alumni of Britannia Royal Naval College."--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose -- The term alumni is a rare one in UK. There is thus no reason to change this form graduates. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:36, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The term "alumni" is rare, but it's only rare because it's a highly formal term, as Latinisms tend to be. I doubt it's rare because there's anything incorrect about it; generically, "alumni" just means "graduates". There are a few "alumni" categories in Category:Military academy graduates in the United Kingdom, for instance. Miracle Pen (talk) 07:51, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral on graduates vs alumni but can we at least get the full institution names into the categories? "Woolwich graduates" is particularly meaningless to the uninitiated. Timrollpickering (talk) 03:23, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I noticed I left out the "the"s after "Alumni of" in the first three nominations. I have fixed those. Britannia doesn't seem to have one.--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Alumni is never commonly used in the UK for graduates of military academies. Unlike in many countries, they don't offer degrees and they're not universities. They are solely military training establishments and therefore should not be shoehorned into a category structure and terminology in which they don't really belong. We should probably expand the titles to make it clearer, however, and move to the "Graduates of Foo" form. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:37, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename for now to Category:Royal Military College, Duntroon graduates. This issue will probably come up again as users notice that this is out-of-line with the other subcategories of Category:Alumni by university or college in Australia. As a closing note, I would only point out that "alumni" is more encompassing than "graduates", since "alumni" includes all who attended the institution, not just those who graduated from it. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:14, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Duntroon graduates to Category:Royal Military College, Duntroon alumni

Nominator's rationale: To match all other categories in Category:Alumni by university or college in Australia.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 02:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: are there any sources that indicate that Duntroon graduates are referred to as alumni? I've not heard this term used before, but of course it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Nevertheless, within the lexicon of the college, in my experience, members who complete the course are referred to as "graduates" of the college and one spends 18 long months aiming to "graduate" rather than aiming to "become an alumnus". For me, I would argue that "Category:Dutroon graduate" is in line with other military institutions such as "Category:Woolwich graduates" and "Category:Sandhurst graduates", but I note that they also appear to have been tagged for renaming. I wonder if there is a reason for this other than just internal consistency. I'm not experienced in the world of category names, though, so it would be great to get a broad range of opinions before we decide what to do here. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point - "alumni" is an awkward formalism, the more common colloquial term is "graduate". The problem is that you could say that about any university - commonly, people who finish a bachelor's degree are called "graduates", but every other category in the Australian hierarchy uses "alumni" regardless. At any rate, they use "alumni" for Category:United States Naval Academy alumni, Category:United States Military Academy alumni, and Category:United States Air Force Academy alumni. The British hierarchy uses a mixture of "alumni" and "graduates" with no standard syntax.

At any rate, the phrase "Duntroon graduates" is meaningless to someone outside Australia. As Australians we know immediately what "Duntroon" is - but foreigners won't. So at a minimum, the title should be amended to "Royal Military College, Duntroon graduates", and we can argue over "graduates" vs "alumni" at a later date. Miracle Pen (talk) 14:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, yes, that seems fair enough. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 06:42, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - "graduate" is more correct terminology IMO as "alumni" simply isn't used in this context. Anotherclown (talk) 07:10, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The current category title is far clearer, less clunky and uses the normal terminology for graduates of military academies. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:35, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I would, however, support a move to Category:Graduates of the Royal Military College, Duntroon. Category:Royal Military College, Duntroon graduates looks odd, the comma suggesting that "Royal Military College" and "Duntroon graduates" should not be read together. -- Necrothesp (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose original suggestion, but support renaming to "Royal Military College, Duntroon graduates". The word "alumni" is simply never used in this context, and we should not mislead our readers for the sake of category system consistency. Duntroon is not like other universities in Australia anyway, so I don't think it's a huge problem if this one entry is different. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 00:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC).[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Cold War documentary films to Category:Documentary films about the Cold War

Nominator's rationale: All subcategories of Category:Documentary films by war follow the target format, but Category:Cold War films does not. So we should pick one.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 01:58, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rename per nom. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The Bushranger identified the convention at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 November 23#Category:World War II air force films:

"Category:Films by war is subcategorised using the "(War name) (X) films" format. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:13, 24 November 2011 (UTC)"[reply]

so the nomination is invalid as previously and clearly indicated at WP:CFDS#Speedy Objections. Target for Today (talk) 20:59, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

— Note to closing admin: Target for Today (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No, we use the "x about y" structure exclusively for documentary films. Please see Category:Documentary films by topic and the many associated CfD discussions for background. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:25, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. Also potentially ambiguous: the current name suggests it could mean documentary films made during the Cold War period but not necessarily about it. Robofish (talk) 01:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. The other tree was categorised one way; this one, about documentary films, is categorised in another. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Rename all. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming

Category:1964 in Guyana to Category:1964 in British Guiana
Category:1960 in Guyana to Category:1960 in British Guiana
Category:1956 in Guyana to Category:1956 in British Guiana
Category:1952 in Guyana to Category:1952 in British Guiana
Category:1948 in Guyana to Category:1948 in British Guiana
Category:1934 in Guyana to Category:1934 in British Guiana
Category:1930 in Guyana to Category:1930 in British Guiana

Nominator's rationale: Rename. During these years, "Guyana" was "British Guiana". Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:36, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support the principle but with so few categories actually created in this series, I would suggest merging into Category:1930s in British Guiana, etc, with a parent Category:British Guiana by decade. This would be without prejudice to re-creation when all could be properly populated. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- But decade categories are not really a good idea over by century ones. In addition the by decade categories add in problems at the century boundary. 1900 is in the 19th century and not the 20th which is where we put the decade category for that boundary year. So keeping the year categories which do no harm is not an unreasonable alternative. While our coverage of the country is light, there is much material that can be added over time. Or if we really don't want the by year categories, just move them into the century ones.Vegaswikian (talk) 18:24, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - If they are in the categories for "YEAR in South America", that might be enough. I agree that most of these are unlikely to have more than one article in them. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:49, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. Tim! (talk) 07:17, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. We are not in the business of revisionism. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:36, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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November 30

Category:Cold War documentary films about nuclear command and control

Category:LGBT musicians by nationality

Category:Doctor Who history

Category:Whoniverse

Category:Whoniverse chronology

Category:1988 documentary films

Category:Hockey navigational boxes

Category:Serbian post-punk music groups

Category:Narcotics

Category:Women in theoretical computer science

Category:Women in applied computer science

Ukrainian television programming

Graduates of Turkish military academies

Category:Graduates of air force academies

Graduates of UK military academies

Category:Duntroon graduates

Category:Cold War documentary films

Years in British Guiana