- New/reorganized refs
- Presence on two major French and Belgian online journals portals
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- Well, first of all, we are on Revues.org and Cairn.info - these are the equivalents in France and Belgium of Jstor, Muse and co. Revues.org is funded by the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, the EHESS, the Université de Provence and the Université d'Avignon. Cairn.info by major publishers: La Découverte, Belin, de Boeck, Erès. To be on such portals means a committee of scientific experts looked at our journal, its history, its publications, its editorial process, the authors published etc. to judge whether it was worthy enough to be part of these portals. These two portals host most of the online versions of major, historical French academic journals, such as Actes de la Recherche en Sciences Sociales, the Revue Française de Sociologie, Ethnologie Française, Terrain, Gradhiva etc. Volume! would never be on these two portals if it did not comply with the highest academic standards and requirements (peer-review process, international editorial board, major contributors, quality/originality of content etc.). We are thus also indexed on Isidore, the main French index for online academic articles, journals and so forth. This alone is enough to prove we are, at least in the eyes of French academic institutions, a notable academic journal.
- Published authors
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- The list of authors who published articles in the journal, which is on the revues.org website, includes major, prominent popular music studies scholars, from all over the world. Please have a specialist judge this. Among them, just to name a few:
- Sean Albiez, Senior Lecturer in popular music studies at Southampton Solent University - http://www.seanalbiez.com/;
- Chris Atton, Professor of Media and Culture at Edinburgh Napier University - http://www.napier.ac.uk/sci/staff/pages/chrisatton.aspx;
- Harris Berger, Professor of Music, Head of the Department of Performance Studies, Texas A&M University - http://perf.tamu.edu/blog/people/harris-m-berger/
- Esteban Buch, Head of Research at the Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales - http://cral.ehess.fr/index.php?/membres/membres-statutaires/428-esteban-buch
- Hervé Glévarec, Research Fellow at the CNRS - http://www2.cnrs.fr/journal/2253.htm
- Peter Hawkins, Senior Research Fellow at the Department of French of the University of Bristol - http://www.bris.ac.uk/french/staff/ph.html
- Keith Kahn-Harris, honorary Research Fellow and Associate Lecturer at Birkbeck College and Associate Lecturer for the Open University- http://www.kahn-harris.org/
- Serge Lacasse, "Professeur Agrégé" at the Université de Laval (Canada) - http://www.mus.ulaval.ca/notice.php?id=29
- Philippe Le Guern, Professor at the Université de Nantes - http://www.irma.asso.fr/Philippe-Le-Guern
- Barbara Lebrun, Lecturer In Contemporary French Politics and Culture at the University of Manchester - http://staffprofiles.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/Profile.aspx?Id=Barbara.Lebrun
- Philip Tagg, one of the founders of popular music studies, the IASPM… http://www.tagg.org/
- David Looseley, Emeritus Professor of Contemporary French Culture at the University of Leeds - http://www.leeds.ac.uk/arts/people/20053/french/person/733/david_looseley
- and so on… The list is here: http://volume.revues.org/33?lang=en
- Our next two issues on countercultures will be edited by Prof. Sheila Whiteley - http://www.sheilawhiteley.co.uk/Sheila_Whiteley/Home.html, with articles by prominent popular music scholars: Prof. Andy Bennett - http://www.griffith.edu.au/humanities-languages/school-humanities/staff/prof-andy-bennett, Simon Warner (Lecturer at the University of Leeds) - http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/staff/srw/, Senior Lecturer Benjamin Halligan - http://www.smmp.salford.ac.uk/page/benjamin-halligan… Our issue on listening will be edited by Professor Antoine Hennion, head of research at the Ecole des Mines - http://www.mines-paristech.fr/cgi-bin/whoswho?Qid=683. The one on nostalgia will be co-edited by Senior Lecturer Hugh Dauncey (Newcastle University) - http://www.ncl.ac.uk/sml/staff/profile/hugh.dauncey/ and Chris Tinker, Reader in French at Heriot Watt University - http://www.sml.hw.ac.uk/staff-directory/chris-tinker.htm. The links to the CFPs are above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zamuse (talk • contribs) 16:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- And I won't mention, again, the names we have in our editorial board, since, for some odd reason, it seems irrelevant…
- We are now not only organizing conferences in universities (such as the Bordeaux one with Philip Tagg, or a forthcoming one in Strasbourg, with German partners and the French branch of the IASPM), but also events (conferences) with major institutions, such as the Musée du Quai Branly, the Cité de la Musique, the Bibliothèque Publique d'Information of the Georges Pompidou Center. Cf. the links above. We will be publishing the proceedings of a conference that was held by the Cité de la Musique on the question of the cultural heritage of rock'n'roll. We published the proceedings of the Bordeaux conference, which dealt with Philip Tagg's theorization of Black music, in our issue n°8-1.
- The journal and the publishing association is supported by the Centre National du Livre, the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique. The links to the documents attesting this are on the wiki page.
- We work with the French-speaking branch of the IASPM (the international association dedicated to popular music studies): we publish the winner of their annual prize : http://iaspmfrancophone.online.fr/PrixJeuneChercheur/.
- Scholarly papers mentioning Volume!
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- Three papers mention Volume! as a leader in the development of popular music studies in France:
- Cécile Prévost-Thomas (2010), "Note de synthèse bibliographique: les nouvelles perspectives en sociologie de la musique", L'Année sociologique n°60, Paris: Presses Universitaires de France: 403-417. Her quote: " En dehors des nombreuses thèses et ouvrages dédiés à cette branche de la sociologie et des articles publiés dans des revues spécialisées […] notons qu’entre 1998 et 2008, plus de quinze numéros de revues scientifiques relevant du domaine des sciences humaines et dédiant chacun un dossier spécifique à la question musicale, ont tous inclus une ou plusieurs contributions de sociologues de la musique. Plus encore, d’autres revues centrées sur l’objet musical, telles Musurgia, ou Copyright Volume ! ont largement favorisé la publication d’écrits sociologiques sur la même période."
- Philippe Le Guern (2007), "En arrière la musique! Sociologies des musiques populaires en France. La genèse d’un champ", Réseaux n°141, Paris: Hermès Éditions: 15-45. His quote: "A seulement quelques années de distance, les progrès accomplis dans ce domaine d’étude sont évidents : de nouvelles revues ont réussi à voir le jour et constituent des lieux d’expression appréciables, notamment pour les jeunes chercheurs qui peuvent y faire leurs premières armes, ou pour des auteurs étrangers peu ou mal connus en France - Footnote: On pense notamment à la revue Volume dont le premier numéro voit le jour en 2002 et qui a su accompagner la diversification des musiques actuelles."
- Emmanuel Brandl (2006), "À propos des musiques populaires : le rock", Mouvements n° 47-48, 2006/5-6. His quote: "C’est donc à une nouvelle génération d’universitaires français que l’on doit aujourd’hui un effort de production et de publication de travaux de recherches en sciences sociales concernant ces musiques. Un certain nombre d’entre eux, regroupés autour des éditions Mélanie Séteun ont déjà assuré la publication d’une demi-douzaine d’ouvrages avec le soutien de l’IRMA et, depuis 2002, d’une revue biannuelle, Volume !".
- This article of Le Mouvement Social (2011/3, n° 236, Paris, La Découverte) mentions Volume as a "pioneer" in research on popular music in France. The quote: "La précédente livraison du Mouvement social avait salué la naissance d’un séminaire interdisciplinaire consacré à l’histoire sociale du rock, signe d’un intérêt croissant de la recherche universitaire française pour un genre musical dont l’importance et l’impact au cours du dernier demi-siècle ne sauraient être sous-estimés. Volume ! La revue des musiques populaires , revue semestrielle de recherche fondée il y a une dizaine d’années, et qui a joué un rôle pionnier dans cette reconnaissance, prépare, dans une perspective proche, un numéro consacré au rock des sixties…"
- Here are links to a few articles that quote Volume (or Copyright Volume, former title) articles, in the text, bibliography etc.:
- Corinne Delmas, "Comptes-rendus, L'Homme (the journal of anthropology founded by Claude Lévi-Strauss), n° 191, 2009/3, Paris, EHESS.
- Jean-Marie Seca, "Formatage du ressentir et représentations underground", Sociétés, 2005/4 (no 90), Brussels: De Boeck.
- Philippe Le Guern, ""No matter what they do, they can never let you down…" Entre esthétique et politique : sociologie des fans, un bilan critique", Réseaux 2009/1 (n° 153), Paris, La Découverte.
- Philippe Le Guern, "Irréversible? Musique et technologies en régime numérique", Réseaux 2012/2 (n° 172), Paris, La Découverte.
- Julien Raoult, "Au rythme du tourisme. Le monde transnational de la percussion guinéenne", Cahiers d'études africaines
2009/1-2 (n° 193-194), Paris, EHESS.
- Hope this helps… Thanks Zamuse (talk) 16:16, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment You really don't want to adapt to WP, but WP has to adapt to you, eh? All those links to homepages of researchers are irrelevant for the notability of this journal. You don't need tons of references, just a few good ones. And to understand what "good" means here, you really will have to get familiar with our policies/guidelines. If I would want to publish in your journal, I would have to adapt to your instructions for authors, too, wouldn't I? So just see WP's policies and guidelines as our "instructions for authors". --Guillaume2303 (talk) 16:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Listen, Guillaume, I really don't understand WHY you adopt this tone with me. I'm answering questions, giving links to the academic pages of people who published articles in Volume. This IS a proof of our notoriety. These scholars would not have submitted articles to Volume had they not considered it a serious journal in their field of research. A journal's notoriety is also determined by the content, who published articles in it. I do not see how this cannot be considered as relevant, when it comes to assessing the value of our journal. You were fed up with following this conversation: I'd appreciate it if you followed your instincts and let others deal with this issue. Best, Zamuse (talk) 16:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Yup, it adds perhaps to the journal's notoriety, but not to its notability in the WP sense, which is something completely different. Read the policies and guidelines. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 16:51, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I highly recommend that Zamuse should listen to Guillaume and the others here.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Just added links to mentions of Volume in scholarly journals. Will listen to whoever gives good, courteous advice. Best, Zamuse (talk) 17:28, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Seems like Guillaume's advice is courteous and respectful and, more important, correct. Guillaume is trying to help save the Volume! article; at present, Zamuse, it seems like you are doing everything you can to hurt your article's chances for staying in Wikipedia. Can't you see this?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Guillaume is not being courteous (eh ? yup ? - very obnoxious), plus he selects the elements he wants to criticize, and just neglects all the other ones. I have added a good number of links to articles that mention Volume - three of them actually talk about the journal itself, the other ones refer to articles published in it… This should, I believe, help assess the journal's notability, no? Best, Zamuse (talk) 17:42, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Guillaume understands the rules. You don't. He has been trying hard to tell you this. You don't seem to listen. Your addition of links has not been helping your cause. If you'd like the article Volume! to stay in Wikipedia, I urge you to listen carefully to what Guillaume is trying to tell you.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok I will, and have: I just added the quotes of the articles mentioned earlier. Please explain why this is not considered as relevant. Thank you Zamuse (talk) 17:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Zamuse, you did not listen. You add quotes and then you demand that we explain to you why those would not be sufficient. That's not the way it works. What you need to do is tell us which evidence among the big wall of text that you dumped here satisfies the notability requirements of [|[WP:NJournals]] or WP:GNG and why. Just two good independent reliable sources should be enough. quotes or a few citations to articles that appeared in the journal won't do it. And given the type quotes you just now added, you apparently still have not read any of the policies and guidelines that have been recommended to you. Apparently, you still think that "notability" is a synonym for "good", "valuable", "worthwhile", "important", etc. It is not. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 20:49, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "You dumped here" - I mean, if that is not arrogant, if that does not explicitly show the contempt you have, a priori, for whatever evidence I have to propose…
- 1. I have quoted articles that speak about the state of popular music studies in France - that is their topic. And they do indeed mention Volume as one of the agents that developed popular music studies in France. They "address, directly, in detail" the subject of popular music studies in France: their current state, how they developed, where they come from. If you expect to find many online articles that are solely focused on one academic journal, good look to you.
- 2. They are reliable: published in other peer-reviewed journals, by "independent" authors not affiliated with Volume (one is, in fact, a member of the editorial board, but then again, that does not mean the author is biased, or involved in any "conflict of interest" when he decides to mention Volume in an article).
- 3. They are "secondary sources": they do not come from our website. I really have, I admit, a hard time understanding how these references are not notable, given they tackle the question at stake, they are reliable, independent, secondary sources…
- On the "Notability (academic journals)", here are the criteria:
- The journal is considered by reliable sources to be influential in its subject area. I have given references assessing that.
- The journal is frequently cited by other reliable sources. Maybe not as frequently as 30 year-old academic journals, ok, but we're getting there.
- The journal has a historic purpose or has a significant history. Yes: there is no other academic journal, since "Vibrations", in France, exclusively dedicated to popular music studies. We offer a space for researchers to publish new, interesting articles on popular music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zamuse (talk • contribs) 23:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I also gave links to articles in newspapers that talk about various issues of our journal - how are they not reliable or independent? Le Monde diplomatique, Ouest France are important French newspapers. How do these elements not comply with WP requirements? You haven't explained that - it seems you are blind to these references. I feel like my arguments bounce against hostile wall… Please take each example and criticize it, that's the only way I will be able to understand. But then again, the fact that the equivalent, for example, of the Nation (le Monde Diplomatique) in France does not impress you is understandable: but I cannot invent English sources. Please forgive the fact that the journal, for the moment, only gets attention from French national media… If you type "melanie seteun" (the publishing association) or "copyright volume" (former title of the journal), you get hundreds of responses on Google scholar… "Volume la revue des musiques populaires" gets 1200 answers on Google scholar. I do not believe in google scholar, but since you wanted some kind of an international index (such indexes are important in the Anglo-Saxon world, they do not really exist in the French-speaking one).
- If you feel like deleting, in the end, be my guest. I will hardly find anything better than, yes, the prestige of our authors, of our editorial board, of scholarly articles that assess Volume's role in developing popular music studies in France, of the newspapers that reviewed recent issues of our journal, of the major online academic portals that decided we were an asset for them, of the major institutions that call us to organize conferences, debates on popular culture, rock'n'roll, Black music and so forth.
- I work benevolently for this journal, it's not always easy, and yet it is getting growing interest in the English-speaking world and beyond (things I cannot prove on WP - the amount of proposals we receive in answer to our calls for papers, the prestige of the scholars who submit papers, who want to edit issues, who accept to review submissions, who contact us to organize international events). If WP accepts dozens of articles on tabloids and pokemons, but not a journal like Volume, that's fine. I really sense incredible hostility in the overly zealous scrutiny you impose upon a page that does not even say that much about the journal - nothing too laudatory, no unverifiable facts, no ambiguous falsifications… And still, I get "uh", "yup", "you dumped here", all these petty signs of contempt, when all I'm trying to do, is offer a young and long-lasting, independent, "do it yourself" and yet serious, scholarly initiative, a little more presence on the WWW.
- Anyway, we're doing ok without WP, there's nothing dramatic. Thanks for the experience Zamuse (talk) 23:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Notable refs?
- Comment I made a request for three or four reliable independent secondary sources that show significant coverage. The wall of links doesn't appear to have what I desired. Do those sources exist? Please do not respond with another wall of text, just a short answer showing 3 or 4 of the best sources. (trying to search for Volume! myself was problematic for obvious reasons, searching for "Volume! magazine" is also problematic because there are multiple magazines of the same name!) IRWolfie- (talk) 14:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Answer - Volume is a (scholarly) journal, not a magazine. If you type volume journal popular music, volume French journal, for example, or "volume la revue des musiques populaires" or just volume musiques populaires, volume revue, you find many links in the first page to our original website [www.seteun.net www.seteun.net], to the [volume.revues.org Revues.org] website, the Cairn.info website, and other sites (academia, facebook, twitter etc.), as well as to other sites that refer to us. This is complicated indeed, as there used to be, for a couple of years, a magazine called Volume, and there is a new one also called "volume" that deals with contemporary art and sound (revuevolume.fr). There is also a magazine dedicated to architecture… But once again, if you precise volume + journal/music/popular music/French, you easily find us on google.
- Here is a (short, 8 refs only) list of newspapers and online magazines reviewing various recent issues of the journal:
- The website "Entrevues", dedicated to journals and magazines dealing with culture, has a special page on Volume. So does Place des revues, the French online catalog of scholarly journals presents Volume.
- The major Jazz webzine, Citizen Jazz presents our "Black music" issue.
- Les Allumés du Jazz, the "jazzine" of the association of independent jazz labels published a long paper on our "Black music" issue - click on the cover of n°29, the latest issue. It downloads the pdf, and you will find the review by searching for "volume".
- France Culture (main national public radio dedicated to the arts) reviewed our "cover versions" issue.
- There is an abstract of a review published in Le Monde Diplomatique, reviewing our "postcolonial" issue.
- Sud-Ouest, an important French newspaper, presents our latest issue dedicated to gender and racial issues in hip-hop. They had also reviewed our conference in Bordeaux on Black music.
- There are links, on the Neospheres website, to reviews of both the "postcolonial" and "cover versions" issues.
- Please explain if you consider these references aren't relevant. Best, Zamuse (talk) 15:15, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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