The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Insomnium. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 16:43, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ville Friman[edit]

Ville Friman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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My desired outcome is a redirect to the subject's band. To be clear: the band is notable, but there is no indication that this individual is individually notable as a musician; he plays in two other non-notable bands, but does not appear to have a solo career--and there is no secondary sourcing, not even a claim of any, of his being notable by himself.

The redirect I put in place ("no notability outside of his band; there's no indication that NPROF is met, for instance, given this complete lack of secondary sourcing") was reverted, and an argument was made on the talk page that the man is notable as a microbiologist (and meet NPROF, I presume). But that's not unproblematic: first of all the article in its current condition is about a musician, not a scientist, and second, we are talking about a beginning scholar who apparently got one co-credit in an article and once a place on a panel as one of thirty scholars. I'll repeat what I said on the talk page, to User:Invasive Spices: "Well, what you have is a five-page note on a panel in which your guy is one of some thirty participants, so I am not sure how you can argue that that is a notable publication written by him. The other article is jointly written with five other authors, and it is cited, true, by a few other articles, but none of them discuss Friman or, it seems, actually discuss the work. In other words, there really is no indication that he is a notable scholar who has made important contributions to the field, as required by NPROF." Drmies (talk) 19:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Finland. Shellwood (talk) 21:22, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. The metrics on his Google Scholar page may be worth considering: Ville-Petri Friman publications indexed by Google Scholar Eastmain (talk • contribs) 22:13, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Insomnium. I found one in-depth discussion of Friman and his dual career path in Yorkville Live, but more of this kind of thing is required before notability is established through WP:GNG. One isn't enough. Binksternet (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Insomnium. No evidence this meets any of the criteria on WP:NPROF (the one cited by Invasive Spices on the talk page is a high bar, and one article about this person's career doesn't reflect he's close to that) and as far as I can tell, doesn't meet WP:NMUSICIAN to justify having a solo page. Certainly a sentence or two about him and his dual career could be added at the band page. Until/unless there is more, I think that's most appropriate. Mdewman6 (talk) 01:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• More sources with Friman as sole author:

• https://theconversation.com/soviet-era-treatment-could-be-the-new-weapon-in-the-war-against-antibiotic-resistance-57836 — The Conversation
• https://www.guitarworld.com/author/ville-friman — Guitar World

• https://scroll.in/article/807001/soviet-era-treatment-could-be-the-new-weapon-in-the-war-against-antibiotic-resistance — Same article syndicated on Scroll.in

• https://www.metalsucks.net/2023/02/07/is-there-a-scientific-reason-why-we-love-metal-insomniums-dr-ville-friman-weighs-in/ — MetalSucks

Invasive Spices (talk) 18:34, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Insomnium. I will assume good faith from those who created the article, because Friman's academic career outside of the band may be worth discussing in its own right. However, there are notability rules at WP:NACADEMIC that must also be satisfied, and Friman does not. Publishing research articles and attending conferences are good for his university job but not enough for an encyclopedic article. (Disclaimer: I am also a university professor who has had research articles published in professional journals, and my boss is suitably impressed but I would not remotely qualify for a WP article just because of that.) ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:50, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Insomnium per above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 08:56, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.