The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. As pointed out in the discussion below, the article now contains a fair number of significant third-party sources that satisfy the notability guidelines for inclusion. Most of the arguments to delete claim the article is promotional. While it is true that the coverage in the article is positive, this seems to be a reflection of the quality and notoriety of the brewery for producing good beer. If every reliable source describes the brewery in glowing terms, the article will reflect this to some extent. As for a promotional tone--yes this needed to be improved, but in the current state the article is not so bad as to be un-salvageable. My reading of consensus is that the arguments for inclusion based on the notability guidelines are stronger than the deletion arguments based on promotional nature. Malinaccier (talk) 17:12, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Upslope Brewing Company[edit]

Upslope Brewing Company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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very small and unimportant brewing company, with only the usual press releases and notices for references, and no reason to expect anything better. DGG ( talk ) 04:35, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:36, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:36, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I can't vouch for how well known this company really is, but if the nominator's main rationale is a lack of real references, that's misleading. On the article, there are currently all these references:

This is a considerable number of external sources, so it seems there has been significant coverage. --Hameltion (speak, spoken) 04:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep – Meets WP:GNG and WP:AUD. In addition to the sources in the article, a WP:BEFORE search provides the following book sources, which provide significant coverage about the topic. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:46, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Per this list, Upslope's production is now triple what is indicated in the article, it is now the 7th largest craft brewery in Colorado (one of the hubs of U.S. craft beer production). caknuck _° needs to be running more often 04:47, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per the above. The sourcing seems to be there on this one. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 14:02, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete because the all the posted sources are promotional: 1 is a local indiscriminate newspaper about their business activities, 2 is the same except in a different publisher, 3 is a local newspaper reporting they will be opening a new location there (business activities), 4-7 are all company statements about their products and distributing them therefore all of them violate WP:ORGIND and WP:CORP which says: Acceptable sources under this criterion include all types of reliable sources except works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as: brief announcements of mergers or sales of part of the business, simple statements that a product line is being sold, changed, or discontinued, routine notices of facility openings or closings, quotations from an organization's personnel as story sources or passing mention". This perfectly fits both the article and sources and it wouldn't be in the best interests to accept them here. Also, WP:AUD is immediately after this section which cited what we use and what not to use, so its audience is not relevant to our regards of sources, because the sources actually show the company is fueling their own PR. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 17:22, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Might I add that Northamerica1000 also found many book sources that haven't been added to the article. Credible sources do exist, the article just isn't using them right now. That's not grounds for deletion. --Hameltion (speak, spoken) 17:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• See also: WP:NEXIST. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:31, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The books posted above actually have the repeated word "guide" even on the front page cover, so it violates WP:Not guide, regardless of the information being significant or facts. Also, to actually quote the WP:NEXIST, it says requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources so if I easily found the sources are still primary sources or guides, it cannot suitable independent, reliable sources. Before actually mentions the importance of this too. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 20:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I found several articles from the Boulder Daily Camera: [8], [9] and [10]. caknuck _° needs to be running more often 23:29, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTGUIDE refers to Wikipedia articles, not book sources. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:24, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But the point here is that books labelled Guides... are likely to be mere listings or directories, such as travel guides. And all the local refs are just that--the student newsper just loisted is the epitome of coverage that does not make anything notable . DGG ( talk ) 05:04, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The first three book sources I posted above provide fairly comprehensive overviews of the company, its history and its products. None of them are mere directory listings. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:06, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment – Actually WP:Not guide says it applies to ‘’’all contents’’’, not only articles or sources and, the first words in the books clearly state “guide” (1st: “This comprehensive guide covers all aspects of beer”, 2nd: “These comprehensive guides cover the entire beer experience’ and 3rd: “Homebrewing guide”. As for the sources, #1 is promotional, and actually a local newspaper to the company itself, with If you go: What: Upslope Get Down When: 1-11 p.m. Saturday, May 16 Where: Flatiron Park, 1898 S. Flatiron Court, Boulder Tickets: Free, but $55 VIP passes available Info: 303-449-2911 or upslopegetdown.com Related: 2015 Get Down Dragonfly's Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Coffee with a complementary base beer that enhances the light, berry-forward flavors of the coffee with an earthy sweetness and caramel undertones. It's an exceptional and unexpected pairing that's currently available on draft in the Lee Hill taproom. From just a handful of staff and two core beers served from the tiny original taproom, building a large new production brewery and taproom in Flatiron Park and expanding distribution to include five states, as of this week; it's a remarkable success story driven by a passion for brewing quality beer. The schedule is....with $5 drink....Admission is free. The VIP bar will serve several rare beers and special projects, such as a Japanese Dry Lager brewed with toasted rice and a hint of jasmine therefore it instantly violates WP:Not guide, both information and sources. Following is, of course the same local publisher in its “local business section”, UpSlope Brewing announces ambitious expansion into Boulder Junction....Boulder, UpSlope Brewing is planning a major new facility that will allow it to test new ingredients, new processes and new ideas, all in the heart of a major transit-oriented development in central Boulder….his company decided to embark on an expansion after being briefed.... and all of that is clear primary information ‘’and’’ and sources so it’s unacceptable for even GNG. The 3rd is no different with, again the local newspaper, Brewer Alex Violette says that it was a point of pride when he made an exceptionally good batch....his company decided to embark on an expansion after being briefed....Violette's American light lager — brewed with 100 percent malted barley and Czech Saaz hops — is even paler in color with a clean, crisp flavor that will be immediately recognizable to most beer drinkers....Retaining the pilot system and experimenting with a variety of taproom-only beers such as Upslope American light lager not only keeps the brewers' creative juices flowing....Sometimes the customer response drives the decision to more broadly distribute a beer. WP:Before itself says to ensure sources are independent and reliable so, to repeat WP:What Wikipedia is not, we are not an extension for company webhosting and it’s clear the supposed news were used for exactly that. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 18:00, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment On WP:NOTGUIDE: This states that "Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal". This has nothing to do with references or establishing notability. It means that unnecessary details, like the price of things, should not be included in articles. The sources can still be guides, as long as they're reliable and independent. --Hameltion (speak, spoken) 17:44, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See that same section which begins an article should not read like a "how-to" style owner's manual, cookbook, advice column (legal, medical or otherwise) or suggestion box. This includes tutorials, instruction manuals, game guides, and recipes. Describing to the reader how people or things use or do something is encyclopedic; instructing the reader in the imperative mood about how to use or do something is not therefore it still applies to articles, not only sources. SwisterTwister talk 21:37, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as it's clear this is far too promotional for meaningful improvements given both concerns in information and sources we shouldn't be defending such unconvincing material for an independent encyclopedia. Take for example, the sources found here and here as they consist of either announcements, local listings, event guides, press releases, interviews, indiscriminate "local favorites" lists, etc. (1-30 so far and that's simply counting trade publications or local) and none of that ensures our own neutrality in articles. The nomination is founded in our deletion policies and that's all we ever need for deletion, no matter if it satisfies suggestive "article guidelines". As seen before, it's usually obvious once the best results given are only PR-intent as that will be a good sign what the nature of sources actually is and how eager their hired promotion agency is to work for their clients, but of course that's not what Wikipedia is about here. SwisterTwister talk 21:37, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep  Reliable sources exist; and an article is written, including income for one year and the number of employees.  The topic is a topic of interest to the world at large.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:50, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete -- promotionalism for an non-notable company. Wikipedia is not a substitute for a company web site. The content is promotionalism and / or trivia, as in:

• The company prefers aluminum cans to keep the product fresh and portable for the outdoors, for their ability to be recycled and to reduce fuel costs for delivery!
• In 2013, Upslope Brewing Company held a fundraiser to benefit the Crest View Elementary School in North Boulder, which was adversely affected by the 2013 Colorado floods! (That's filed under "Charity".

An unremarkable local business. In any case, this content is excluded per WP:N: "A topic is presumed to merit an article if: (...) It is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy." This article is 100% advertorial and there's nothing worth preserving here. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:33, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:34, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - It is rare that I am so evenly split between keep and delete, but this is one of those rare cases. I can understand the delete perspective, as right now the article clearly only promotes the company. That being said, having read the sources, I think it might pass GNG. So I'm split. However, if kept, there is a much larger issue with the article, and that's one of copyvio. As this copyvio report shows the current lead and production section are cut and paste from "COLORADO CRAFT BREWERS COMPANY INFORMATION". These sections need to be deleted or re-written as soon as possible, and then the old version revdel'd. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:59, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - clearly promotional as are most of the sources. The award is, as usual, bogus - they won 1 of 250 awards. The award was from a local organization as are all but 1 source. Unremarkable local company. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 19:35, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• They won a Best of Craft Beer silver medal[11] and a World Beer Cup bronze medal[12] in 2016, as well as a couple of NABA awards[13]. All of these are national or international awards. Also, the GABF is a national organization, and not local. caknuck _° needs to be running more often 08:59, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - I updated and sourced their beer production - they are the #8 in Colorado, a beer mecca, but would be #2 in Indiana. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 01:30, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per the significant coverage in reliable sources found by Hameltion, Northamerica1000, and Caknuck. The company passes Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. Here is a book source that provides extensive coverage about the subject:
  1. Rabin, Dan (2014). Colorado Breweries. Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania: Stackpole Books. p. 183–185. ISBN 0811756181. Retrieved 2017-08-01.

     The book notes:

     It was a long uphill slog from conception to production for Upslope Brewing Company. The journey has led to a mountain of success for the Boulder brewery.

     In 1996, a year after becoming a homebrew hobbyist, Matt Cutter put together a business plan for a microbrewery. Lacking funds to put the plan into motion, the proposal collected dust for more than a decade. Cutter revisited the plan in 2007, but it wasn't until the following year, when he met a brewer named Dany Pages, that the brewery concept gained real momentum. Pages was visiting Colorado from Ushuaia, Argentina, where he had started Beagle Brewery, the world's southernmost brewery. Cutter and Pages shared a common vision, and a partnership was formed.

     Cutter took out a second mortgage on his home to help finance the venture. A third partner, Henry Wood, came aboard to spearhead sales. Upslope brewed its first batch in the fall of 2008. From the start, the Upslope brand has been synonymous with the Colorado outdoor lifefstyle. Henry and David are avid rock climbers. Matt is a cyclist, backpacker, and skier. To be compatible with that type of active lifestyle, and to reduce environmental impacts, all Upslope beers are packaged in cans.

     The partners had anticipated producing 400 barrels in their first year. The actual tally was 1,100. The next year they produced 2,400 barrels. The following year, it increased to 3,800. With the brewery unable to keep up with demand, Upslope opened a second, much larger production brewery and taproom in East Boulder in 2013. The original brewery is now used to produce experimental beers.

     This is extensive coverage about the brewery's origins and founding.
  Cunard (talk) 06:41, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.