The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Jujutacular (talk) 03:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ukrainians in Italy[edit]

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This article does not cite any sources or establish its notability. I'm sure there happen to be notable Ukrainians living in Italy, but the same argument could be made to create Canadians in Monaco or Trinidadians in Benin without sources. Andrew³²⁷ 04:56, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 15:04, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 15:06, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. LadyofShalott 15:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep.The Ukrainians community is a large community in Italy and has a notable impact in italian society, many ukrainians woman work in Italy as home assistants for eldery people.User:Lucifero4 2013-01-13 22:15:54‎
Delete - Sub-stub with no references, no claim of notability, containing a single (unsourced) "fact". Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I live in Italy and I can tell you the ukrainan immigration in Italy is a notable, the has to be improved but not deleted.User:Lucifero4 2013-01-15 21:10:54‎
Redirect' To Ukrainian diaspora. Ryan Vesey 14:21, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 02:01, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lucifero4's statement above is, of course, the unsupported claim of a person with a pseudonym on an open WWW discussion. So let's have a university fellow instead. In this case, it's a postdoctoral fellow in the University of Helsinki who studies migration.
Ukrainian migration to Italy skyrocketed at the turn of the millennium. […] Ukrainians are the fifth largest imigrant group in Italy, […] Both [Ukrainian and Polish immigrants] are gendered populations.
— Näre 2012, p. 72
So the university researcher supports the claims of the pseudonymous person on the open WWW discussion, even the thesis that these people are disproportionately women. There's clearly a lot more to be written here, from that source alone, and it's a shame that there's been about twenty times as much prose devoted to an AFD discussion as was ever in the article. Giuggiola90, could you please not give Wikipedia articles that are barely above being single, context-free, factoids?
- Näre, Lena (2012). "The informal economy of paid domestic work: Ukrainian and Polish migrants in Naples". In Sciortino, Giuseppe; Bommes, Michael (eds.). Foggy Social Structures: Irregular Migration, European Labour Markets and the Welfare State. Amsterdam University Press. ISBN 9789089643414.
Uncle G (talk) 02:46, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- My take on an article like this is that while I understand that AfD is not cleanup, there's clearly not enough here for an article, even if the topic is notable. As such, it should be deleted/redirected or userfied (short of WP:HEY, which probably wouldn't be too hard if someone had the time and the sources) until an article that gives enough context that the reader is left with some level of understanding of the topic is created. Ryan Vesey 02:52, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - People who cut factoids out of other articles, in this case Italy#Ethnic groups, and create almost content-free substubs just to make bluelinks in "X in Y" templates, in this case Template:Immigration to Italy, certainly aren't actually helping the project. And there's always the "better a redlink than this" argument, which posits that at least a redlink leads editors to know that there isn't real content at the title yet. Uncle G (talk) 03:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you explain the WWW by the way? Ryan Vesey 02:53, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - You've never encountered it being given its proper name: the World Wide Web? ☺ Uncle G (talk) 03:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A useful link in English http://www.genderstudies.info/english/eng_text16.php
Then written in Italian a report of ISTAT about forgeiners in Italy.233000 ukrainans in Italy 80% are woman.https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:A_AX6tb73n0J:www.istat.it/it/files/2012/07/Statistica-report-Permessi-di-soggiorno.pdf?title%3DI%2Bcittadini%2Bnon%2Bcomunitari%2Bsoggiornanti%2B-%2B25%252Flug%252F2012%2B-%2BTesto%2Bintegrale.pdf+ministero+degli+interni+ucraina+presenze&hl=it&gl=it&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgJRchD-ZxISWK43huKLFDU-hfHKXFe7HhNoY8nK-YXlixIIhf3ywtXASp45ILzzESCs0DBq_KDEpPbUZC0qlIqE6rpsPI9jzA0TwgYnnT8H2c2DXJSiiqZROJdHrL7C86Dio4N&sig=AHIEtbR52zvZklsFbWUm0BkAP0MLRyt9Lw User:Lucifero4

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 00:17, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have expanded the article to a stub-worthy class and provided references. It's time to remove the "delete" tag from the page. If someone is interested in expanding the article further, you are welcome to improve on my work.--Sanya3 (talk) 04:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Immigration to Italy Both articles are not that long and all the information here can easily be added there. Honestly, that article looks like a mere duplication of Italy#Ethnic groups, so if no new information is put there, I will redirect it and the article is this AfD looks like WP:FANCRUFT since very few wound be interested in a specific group of people migrating to another country. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 22:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: A search suggests that Ukranian emigration to Italy is a notable topic, even if this article needed further improvement. See, e.g., Ukrainian Migration to Italy, Journal of Immigrant & Refugee Studies (Volume 6, Issue 3, 2008). Not unlike bilateral-relations articles, not every combination of two countries will be notable, but this one appears to be.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 23:18, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.