The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Cincinnati Reds minor league players. Tone 20:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Theodis Bowe[edit]

Theodis Bowe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Non-notable minor league baseball player. Since he exists and is a minor league baseball player, he's got a smattering of Ghits, but none are significant mention in reliable sources. Fails WP:ATHLETE by definition. Wikipedia is not a baseball scouting website. If he makes the Major Leagues, great, but chances are he won't and even if he does, it'll be several years from now (WP:CRYSTAL) and we wouldn't need an article like this about him (I don't think anyone really believes that high school baseball is notable enough for this much information about it). PROD continues to show its uselessness, as it was removed by the author. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 02:33, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I added additional stats and references which is all that was said was required to take down the deletion notice. It's a notable article because "Bowe became the first athlete from Ellendale to be drafted by a professional sports team, the first athlete to ever be drafted straight out of high school from Milford High". The page is not only about his high school play as you claim and there are additional references available if you look up Theo Bowe as well as Theodis as you referenced. Superman7515 (talk) 02:38, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Merge per Spanneraol below.  B.Rossow ^talk_contr 17:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Wikipedia's notability guidelines, which state that anyone who has "competed at the fully professional level of a sport" is notable. Since he has played professional minor league baseball, he meets this guideline.--TM 17:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • However, minor league baseball is not considered fully professional.--Giants27(c|s) 23:33, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • That opinion is very much disputed. Resolute 00:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Minor league baseball is a hierarchy of professional baseball leagues in North America that compete at levels below that of Major League Baseball", which would mean it is professional baseball as hierarchy is categorization of a group of people according to ability or status. Basically, professional baseball at a lower skill level. Not that I want to get into that argument. How about someone taking up Spanneraol on his suggestion to merge it into Cincinnati Reds minor league players? Superman7515 (talk) 01:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There ya go, he meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Superman7515 (talk) 22:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That tone is not helpful. And by no means are minor league baseball players notable simply for being minor league baseball players. That opens the door for many, many thousands, if not millions, of "articles" that stand next to no chance of growing beyond a sentence or two (size of this particular article was never the reason I brought it here, so please don't make that argument). WP:ATHLETE is, among other things, ridiculously poorly defined. If it's taken to mean a player like, say, Grier Jones merits an article, then it's very, very wrong and needs to be killed with fire. Probably does anyway. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 23:21, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't intend to have a tone, I was simply greatful for the clarification.Superman7515 (talk) 00:57, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I apologize for my snippiness. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 04:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Per google hits link presented by nominator. Fails WP:ATH and WP:GNG. Minor league player ARE NOT notable for being minor league players since MiLB league are not FULLY professional.--Giants27(c|s) 23:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed to merge since the purpose of the minor league player pages is for non-notable guys like Bowe.--Giants27(c|s) 02:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom and Giants27. Past consensus has determined (repeatedly, ad nauseum) that minor league players are not covered by WP:ATHLETE. -Dewelar (talk) 23:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Changing vote to Merge per Spanneraol below. I keep forgetting those pages exist, which are the perfect place for information about players like Bowe. -Dewelar (talk) 01:46, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete He was drafted in the 21st round. No way notable--Yankees10 23:46, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Cincinnati Reds minor league players.Spanneraol (talk) 00:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge per Dewelar. The minor-league pages are the catch-all for players who may at some point become notable, but do not yet meet WP:GNG. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, non notable for the reasons mentioned above. Wizardman 02:32, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Cincinnati Reds minor league players. We have pages like that for every MLB organization for players like this. NatureBoyMD (talk) 02:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Further argumentIs there some standard for how long players are listed on those pages? If this guy ever makes the Majors, it'll probably be in about 2013 or 14. Long time to have content for somebody we don't otherwise think is notable. I see those pages (like Milwaukee Brewers minor league players) as being for players who are prominent at AA or AAA and likely to make the Majors if not this September probably sometime next season. Someone this deep in the minors and this non-notable doesn't need to be written about at all. Should notability be established at a later date, the article can be started then. Should "near notability" be established, he can be added to one of the minor league players pages (and that's the other thing, no reason at all to believe he'll stay in the Reds' system his whole time in the minors). I did an audit of articles on minor league baseball players, identifying around 300 that I believe need to be addressed, and Bowe is perhaps the least notable of them all. To merge his article would set the precedent for merging all of them, which in turn sets the precedent for writing something about every single player in the minor league system of every single team. And that shouldn't happen. Merge is not correct here. Deletion is. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 04:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I looked at the Brewers page you listed, and I see a lot of players in A-ball, a few in Double-A, and not many at all in Triple-A (and one guy, David Welch, who is notable enough for his own article, having played for Australia in the Baseball World Cup). The Minnesota Twins minor league players article is split evenly between Single-A and Double-A, with no Triple-A players at all. One player on the Brewers' page has been playing professionally for eight years. I don't see why this is a problem at all. -Dewelar (talk) 04:31, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Then those pages ought to be trimmed, rather than more pages like them resulting. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 04:58, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • A lot of the AAA players have enough sources about them that they have their own standalone articles. My approach with the Los Angeles Dodgers minor league players page is to primarily include AA players on the page.. with a few of the more promising Single-A players. I'd normally stay away from Rookie league guys but this one seems to have enough information about him to make it worth merging him... though it should be slimmed down a bit so as not to take up too much room on the page. Spanneraol (talk) 14:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Cincinnati Reds minor league players, once it's cut down to size. A 21st round pick from last year playing in the GCL does NOT meet criteria for a stand alone article. --Muboshgu (talk) 11:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect or merge to Cincinnati Reds minor league players. Although like all minor league baseball players he is fully professional, and thus appears to meet [{WP:ATH]], consensus has been more restrictive than that. Historically, minor leaguers were (generally) only considered notable once they won an award, played a minor league all-star game or played a full season at AAA, although WP:BASEBALL seems to have changed this recently. And since Theodis Bowe has not reached AAA or been a minor league all-star, and his draft position is too low to warrant notability on that basis, and since I am not seeing significant coverage in multiple reliable sources (since stat pages don't count for this purpose) that would meet WP:N, redirect or merge is appropriate. Rlendog (talk) 15:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.