The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Black Kite 12:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Zets[edit]

The Zets (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Procedural nomination. I had deleted the article because its PROD expired, but I received an email asking me to restore it. I'm bringing this to AfD for further discussion. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 22:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, for an college computer science club that claims to have been among the first to use email and IM, the Internet is strangely silent on their existence. Not notable anyway. Fee Fi Foe Fum (talk) 23:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete E-mail and instant messaging go back to the 60's (they actually predate the Internet), and this group goes back to the 80's, so I doubt the claim of early email and IM use. Also "never recognized by the University of Pittsburgh as an official club or users' group." Fails WP:ORG, since I don't see any secondary sources. --Phirazo 04:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as lacking verifiable notability. Tony Fox (arf!) 05:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as original prodder. Phlegm Rooster (talk) 06:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete i agree with Phirazo, as e-mail and instant messaging originated back in the 60's and an early IM-style server was begun in 1984, well before this group's 1986 founding. I also think there might be some WP:COI here. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 07:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Do Not Delete, It was not a computer science club. It was interdisciplinary and played a key role in introducing technology to non-technical majors at a time when non-technical majors had little exposure to technology. While email and instant messaging go back to the 60's, there use by university undergraduate students in non-technical majors does not. Very few non-technical undergraduates at universities used technology for communication and collaboration this way. Were the Zets the first undergraduate group anywhere to do that? Probably not, but it does not follow that it is not notable solely on that fact. A group does not have to be the first at something to be recognised. It is correct that the group was never formally recognised by the University. That actually led to contention as the group used university computer systems in ways the university had not expected, and the university was not sure how to deal with it. Other than being officially recognised, the group acted as a student group in every other way. It had a formal constitution, officers, meetings, activities, just like other student groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Droopydog (talk • contribs) 13:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're argument makes some pretty strong points against keeping the article. You seem to say they only had local, limited notability (or rather nostalgia) to a small group of people. That fails WP:N and WP:BIO. Also reliable, independent sources could at least help your case Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 14:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Do Not Delete,The Zets was formed around the same time that the University of Pittsburgh introduced a policy where all undergraduate students were entitled to computer time. This policy extended to time on Unix and VMS-based systems. As such non-CS students were starting to use these systems in ways that were not anticipated. This led to the University of Pittsburgh needing to set policies with regards to user limits on computer time. As the members of the group graduated, or not, and spread across the globe the ties back to this group led to email correspondence during the first Gulf War, creative writing about the group and the group spawned a rock group. Because of the sketchiness of digital archives from this period it is not always easy to find reliable, independent sources. However some mentions of the group can be found.
  • alt.prose story The Zets is an example.
  • The yosi referred to in the Journal of Computer-Mediated Communications Vol. 1 No. 2 article [From <Bonehead> to <cLoNehEAd>: Nicknames, Play and Identity on Internet Relay Chat http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol1/issue2/bechar.html] is Yosi the Zet.
  • Adam Engst refers to this same Zet in one of the early editions of his books about the Internet. Adam has been contacted to help locate the IRC log which was published in the book.

One needs to remember when considering this entry that as the group pre-dates the web much of the material of the time may be difficult to find but that doesn't make it any less important to record the existence for future Internet and social network archeology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yosithezet (talk • contribs) 16:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I'm not sure about this, if they really were the first to use IM and email, then wouldn't there be many more reliable sources? Fails WP:N, WP:R, and WP:COI. Soxred 93 16:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Fails notability and verfiability Jasynnash2 (talk) 08:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Do Not Delete, The Internet Archive Wayback Machine has many archives of the group's earlier websites:
  • http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.zets.org
  • Description of the organisation from 2001 which includes descriptions from as early as 1990. http://web.archive.org/web/20010503032306/www.zets.org/intro/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yosithezet (talk • contribs) 17:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:N and no refs DA PIE EATER (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.