The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. — Aitias // discussion 00:19, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ronny Espedal[edit]

Ronny Espedal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Plays on the second tier in Norway. Not a fully professional league. Fails WP:ATHLETE. No other significant coverage that fulfills WP:BIO#basic criteria. Rettetast (talk) 16:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By " not a fully professional league" do you mean to say that this club and player is amateur? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Season	Top scorer, club	Goals
2008	Peter Kovacs, Odd Grenland	22
2007	Kenneth Kvalheim, Notodden	23
2006	Mattias Andersson, Strømsgodset	19
2005	Daniel Nannskog, Stabæk	27
2004	Paul Oyuga, Bryne	18
2003	Markus Ringberg, Fredrikstad	19
2002	Morten Gamst Pedersen, Tromsø	18
2001	Bala Garba, Haugesund	18
			Marino Rahmberg, Raufoss

Here are some past top scorers for the same league Are all these non notable?. To me inclusion of what article is acceptable or not in respected to clubs in this division is shady given that some are professional players and others are not. If for instance we were to delete the above articles then people are likely to complain that they do have some claim to notability having played for professional clubs or having international experience. How do we find what or what not is appropriate by evaluating the player based on the club when they might have had previous professional experience etc? All I'm saying is if we delete this we may as well nuke hundreds of others like Thomas Sørum etc. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that that inclusion on wikipedia not solely should be decided upon what club a player has played for. This is also how WP:BIO functions. All players that have played on a fully professional level are automatically "notable". If not we have to go to the basic criteria which is decided upon the presence of "published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject". In my opinion Ronny Espedal does not fulfill this criteria.

To the players you listed. Péter Kovács has played on a fully professional level, Mattias Andersson has played on a fully professional level, Daniel Nannskog has played on a fully professional level and has won the Norwegian Premier League, Paul Oyuga has games for his national team, Markus Ringberg has played on a fully professional level, Morten Gamst Pedersen should be obvious, Bala Garba has played in the Norwegian premier League and for his national team, Marino Rahmberg has played for his national team and Thomas Sørum has played in the Norwegian Premier League. Kenneth Kvalheim is the only one of these that fails WP:ATHLETE. However he, in my opinion, he fulfills the basic criteria. Rettetast (talk) 17:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By first glance, I recognise almost all of the above mentioned players as players who have contributed greatly to Norwegian football. The only one I was unsure about was Marino Rahmberg, but he has played for Derby + several other clubs. But almost all of the top-scorers mentioned above have played/plays in Tippeligaen, except for Paul Oyuga, Kenneth Kvalheim & Rahmberg. When it comes to whether or not Addeccoligaen is a professional league, I would say it is. The league is sponsored, and the players are paid salaries. But whether or not this player is notable or not, I'm more unsure of. The article doesn't actually give much extra info, besides a photo, birth date and his employer. lil2mas (talk) 17:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete unless evidence that he has played in a fully professional league. The Norwegian First Division is not a fully professional league, many players have other day jobs, in some teams 100% of the players have other jobs besides football. Punkmorten (talk) 17:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete OK thanks for the explanation guys. I had absolutely no idea that this wasn't a fully professional league. Division One and Two in English football are professional and are notable teams and players. Thanks for clearing it up. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I think it's fair to make assessments of the individual players or the individual clubs. But to assess a player based on other clubs in his league seems strange to me. That's an unreasonably strict interpretation of what it means to compete on a fully professional level. Lampman (talk) 13:31, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is also how WP:BIO works, but there is nothing special about this player. At least that I have found. Rettetast (talk) 13:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 14:12, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom; non-notable player. GiantSnowman 14:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Unless I;m mistaken, this sounds like the equal to minor league baseball or semi-pro football. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. per nom, fails WP:ATHLETE and general notability. --ClubOranje^T 10:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, fails WP:ATHLETE. No substantial references that meet WP:N either. --Jimbo^[online] 11:18, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.