The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Issues with notability. - Ta bu shi da yu 05:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Robin Rahm[edit]

This player is currently not playing professional hockey, he is signed by a professional team but assigned to a tier-3 team in Sweden. It is unlikely that he will play any professional hockey in the near future (this season). Therefor he does not meat the notability criteria for WP:HOCKEY. Krm500 22:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hockey-related deletions. —Djsasso 23:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He has played for Södertälje SK, a fully professional team last year (granted only two games). From what I can tell, he is currently on the active roster for Frölunda HC, another fully professional team in the Elitserien (see thier web site and click on "A-laget".) I did a Google search, and I was able to get a large number of Swedish hits that appear to be for this player (see here. I can't really tell how much these site say, since I do not speak Swedish.) Also, being only 21 years old and already having limited playing time at the top level in Sweden as a goalie, seems that he is a strong prospect and will continue to get more professional ice time. -- JamesTeterenko 22:56, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- He was dressed in two games for [[Södertälje SK] last season but did not play a single minute, according to the Swedish Ice Hockey Association's official statistic database stats.swehockey.se. And Södertäje did not play in Elitserien last season, they played in the tier-II HockeyAllsvenskan. Rahm is prospect, he had a good season and was "hunted" by both Frölunda HC and Färjestads BK before this season, but so far he has never played professional and I think it will take while before he does that. Currently he is behind Joel Gistedt (first goalie picked in the 2007 NHL Entry Draft) and Ari Ahonen in Frölunda's depth chart, and the team assigned him before the start of the season to his former tier-III club Sunne IK.[1]. I for one don't mind this article existing but it is hypocritical of me to vote delete in other AfD's without nominating this one. --Krm500 00:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So, that makes him a top prospect for a team in the top league in Sweden. This alone make all the information in that article easily verifiable. How is that different that someone like Logan Couture or any other prospects? If this article was deleted, he would be the only player under contract to Frölunda that would not have an article. Is there substantially fewer reliable sources for Rahm than for a player such as Johan Andersson (ice hockey left wing)? The main reason that the notability guidelines exist is to identify people that would have enough coverage in reliable sources. If Rahm has enough coverage than other players that meet the notability guideline, then an article on Rahm can pass all of the policies on Wikipedia. -- JamesTeterenko 14:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I don't believe Logan Couture should have an article either since he has never played in a fully professional league. Only reason I don't afd it is that he was drafted 9th overall. Very few people in the entire world are ever drafted in the first round. So he is in a completely different class than this player. A top prospect for an NHL team is lightyears ahead of a top prospect for a SEL team (and thats not meant as a knock on the SEL). Not that he couldn't eventually be a top prospect for an NHL eventually. --Djsasso 16:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well there are several top prospects for SEL teams who play a season or two before crossing the pond, Bäckström for example. But, and this is just speculation from my part, Rahm's potential is probably SEL backup at best, and he is not there yet. --Krm500 16:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But the argument shouldn't really about how good the player is. The argument should be on whether reliable sources can be found to ensure verifiability of the content. Do you believe that the information in this article is unverifiable? Do you feel that keeping this article would be contrary to any Wikipedia policy? The notability guideline exists to support these policies. Notability is not a policy for deletion in itself. -- JamesTeterenko 16:51, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do believe that ability in a way comes into it but only because of notability. There has to be a line somewhere, this site is not hockeydb.com. Every player should not be on wikipedia. There are other sites for that. Only the notable ones should be, and to be that low down on the totem pole you are not really notable. Atleast not for hockey reasons. Verifiability is one thing and notability is another. --Djsasso 17:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not notable. When he plays a game for Frölunda HC then he will be eligible. Until then its WP:Crystal. Södertälje SK is not in a fully professional league. --Djsasso 23:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- They are now but they were not when he was dressed for them. Although saying HockeyAllsvenskan is not a fully professional league is wrong. Look at some forums and you'll see that the league is ranked above many counties top leagues. Heck, Kenny Jönsson, Ed Belfour, many former national team players and many high ranking prospect plays in the league. The top 4-5 teams in Allsvenskan holds the same class as the bottom 3 teams in Elitserien. But that is not of any importance since he never played there anyway, so far the highest level of play for him has been tier-III hockey in Division 1. --Krm500 00:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yeah no thats what I was getting at. I meant when he was playing for them. --Djsasso 00:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable. GoodDay 13:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:HOCKEY guidelines, WP:CRYSTAL. If and when this fellow plays in the Elitserien, or if the substantial media coverage WP:BIO requires actually surfaces, he'll merit an article. Until then, he doesn't. RGTraynor 07:49, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not yet notable per WP:HOCKEY -Pparazorback 03:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.