The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Snow keep. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 15:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Niko Bellic[edit]

The GTA character has only been playable in one game like the other protagonists who don't even have a page. All Niko Bellic information should be kept on the List of characters in Grand Theft Auto IV page. - GEORGIEGIBBONS 4th January 2010 12:54pm GMT -Note: The nominator has been blocked for abusing multiple accounts. Fences&Windows 00:16, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Well written, well-sourced and notable article. The protagonists of the other games may not have articles dedicated to them, but that doesn't automatically disqualify this one from existing. The article does require a significant rewrite, however. KaySL (talk) 13:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge, it has a lot of valid references and it talks about the character in a lot of detail but there are characters in the GTA series who have a detailed background like Niko's so I think it should be merged into the List of characters in Grand Theft Auto IV page. Mykee881211, 4/1/10 13:27 GMT —Preceding undated comment added 13:27, 4 January 2010 (UTC).[reply]

• Merge into List of characters in Grand Theft Auto IV. While there are many reliable sources which have covered Grand Theft Auto IV, from what I can tell they generally discuss only the game itself, and occasionally provide a paragraph about the character as background information, meaning that this article seems to fail WP:N.--Unscented (talk) 14:08, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions. MrKIA11 (talk) 14:19, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or merge - The character itself has received some rewards, and has been enough of the focus of the overall game reviews that it might warrant its own article. Reception section seems pretty solid -- certainly not content that warrants deletion. --EEMIV (talk) 16:13, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong keep Speedy keep. I wrote that entire reception section while patrolling a small handful of lists. Imagine what would happen if I actually attempted to find reception. Changed to a speedy keep because the reasoning seems to be "Other stuff doesn't exist" and "he's only in one game". There are several characters who only have one appearance. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge, most of the article is about the GTA IV plot. I will agree that the reception section is clear and that can be merged in with the full character list. Superfazar (talk) 21:28, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Niko Bellic is the most notable video game character in recent years, and this article easily has enough sources. -- WölffReik (talk) 22:28, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Perhaps, but is that notability established under Wikipedia criteria? I can see the argument for a full article, but I really don't think it needs one when there's already a list of characters present to which this article's content could easily be merged. KaySL (talk) 00:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• • • It doesn't matter whether it could be easily merged or not; if it satisfies notability criteria, that's all that it has to do. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:37, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I am no fan of frivolous game character articles and lists which have no backing by real world commentary etc., but I'm gonna stick my neck out and say this is probably one of the most poked, prodded and name-dropped characters since Lara Croft. There is material out there about behind the scenes, and as far as reception is concerned the character has been analysed in countless reviews, featured in god knows how many mags etc. It's easy to forget now, but at the time GTAIV was the biggest release on the schedule and every game publication going was poring over every detail. Anyhow, keep, easily passes the notability hurdle. Someoneanother 01:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Crazy notable. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:19, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, and oppose merge. This page is fine as it is, as a split from the main character list. It would be far too long if merged to the character list, as that list gives an overview, whilst this article offers additional in-depth information about appearances, reception, and a longer list of references. With the end user in mind, I see no reason to perform a merge. --Taelus (talk) 10:59, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - but the article needs a major rewrite similar to the Mercaneries characters discussed earlier, as its written with lots of in-universe information. Suggesting editors look at GA character articles like Cloud Strife and Master Chief (Halo) to make the article more Wikipedia and less Wikia. --Teancum (talk) 12:45, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: There are many secondary characters from other video games who have their own articles; see no reason why we shouldn't keep this one. Also, keep the other GTA protagonists if created Purplebackpack89 (talk) 17:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge (or Delete): The game itself doesn't give too much insight into this fictional character. Almost all of the references are to review sites and gamer sites. So it's basically an article about people's opinions about a fictional character. There's not enough substance and fact for it to be encyclopedic. An article with short descriptions of each character would be better. Also, saying that we should keep it because there are other articles about secondary characters isn't valid; it simply means that these other articles should be merged or deleted too. ~~ Dr Dec (Talk) ~~ 18:25, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • At what point is it proper to assert that an in-universe status is more important than real-world notability? A character who appears in 10 games is less important than a character who appears in one if the former has no reception and the latter has one. I suggest you reread notability guidelines and find where being a secondary character in a work of fiction has anything to do with notability. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep – looks like notability is clearly established that this can be its own article. –MuZemike 18:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - "An article about people's opinions about a fictional character" is an ideal article about a fictional character. We call that "secondary sourcing!". Gigs (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge "Reception" into List of characters in Grand Theft Auto IV + Delete the rest of it, Most of the profile is about game events which are summarised in the Grand Theft Auto IV article so I think character reception could just be added to the character article. ToxicWasteGrounds (talk) 21:49, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I must reiterate that the entire reception section was found by me when I wasn't even trying to find reception for him. I was looking through lists on GameDaily and found it on a whim. I argue that if anyone TRIED to find the reception, it would be easily found. A character who was nominated for best new character [only losing out to another character from the same game] must have enough. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • See Wikipedia:Merge and delete. --Explodicle (T/C) 15:48, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep There are plenty of reliable sources talking about this character. Against any merge/redirect which would be the same as delete. There is enough valid information to fill an article, and no reason not to have one. Dream Focus 08:00, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Snow keep - This has detailed secondary sourcing, other character articles are irrelevant, and merging would make the GTA IV article too long. --Explodicle (T/C) 15:48, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.