The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete. "One author who has requested deletion or blanked the page" (non-admin closure) —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 01:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Murder of Amanda Clemons[edit]

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I hate to nominate such a well-written article for deletion, but there seems to be nothing particularly notable about this grisly murder, one of the hundreds of thousands committed each year. Most of the references originate from local Kansas news agencies routinely reporting on the crime and the legal proceedings. Mooonswimmer 17:28, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Crime, and Kansas. Shellwood (talk) 17:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I think, based on the following sources that suggest to me this was a notable event that promoted significant coverage in reliable sources:

I don't have statistics on this, but the abduction, violence against her, phone call to her son subsequent to a murder combination surely is not a common event, seems like quite a notable, newsworthy event. The article says an episode was made about this, I don't recognise the media that features the episode, but that to me also suggests notability.

On the negative side I have not found significant coverage since sentencing and that is important, we need to avoid run of the mill news. And ongoing coverage, or the crime causing something other to happen would enable me to say "strong keep". But I still fund the abduction-assault-phone call-murder combination anything but run of the mill news.

Reading this does leave me wondering how much more media attention this might have got if she was not a sex worker, if that makes it less newsworthy, the bias about that resulting in these extra ordinary circumstances not making national news. I'm slightly moving off topic, but I'm also keen not to perpetuate such inequity, perhaps I'm also being transparent about my own bias towards including articles about people who are systemically under reported on..... CT55555 (talk) 18:01, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per CT55555's sources. Delete, nominator makes a good point, and given that the article's author has put it up for CSD G7, there's no reason to run it through the whole process IMO. Honestly it is unfortunate to see this one nominated for deletion because it is well written and - given CT's comment - appears to have fairly significant independent coverage. But it appears that the article's author has put it up for a speedy under G7, so this whole AFD might be moot. Sleddog116 (talk) 18:20, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The scope of the coverage for this crime is largely local (The Topeka Capital-Journal, KAKE News, KSN, JunctionCityUnion are all Kansas newspapers). Most murders in the United States and in the West in general tend to be reported on by local and even national sources. WP:EVENTCRIT states: "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." Nothing to demonstrate this tragic murder was of exceptional notability. No WP:LASTING effects, no WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE.

@Lightiggy did a great job writing the article, vividly illustrating the tragic series of events. But the grisly crime is nothing unusual. Many murders and kidnappings play out in a similar fashion. The harsh truth is that this was nothing more than a monetary dispute gone wrong. Mooonswimmer 18:34, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, as I said, Lightiggy blanked it and put it up for CSD G7, so this whole discussion could just be moot at this point, I think. Sleddog116 (talk) 18:40, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm.. I'm assuming reverting their requested deletion would be a major faux pas? Mooonswimmer 18:43, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if it would be a faux pas per se, but given your rationale in nominating and your comments since, I'd say it would likely be a waste of time, because you mainly make a good point. There is some national coverage (Washington Times isn't local), but you're probably right on lasting/continued. Sleddog116 (talk) 19:08, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I can reinstate the post if you want. I have a note containing everything. Lightiggy (talk) 20:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would encourage you to keep it up and let the community decide. There is completely merit in the argument above that there is not lasting coverage. But I hope there is also merit in my argument that this is anything but a run-of-the-mill event. CT55555 (talk) 21:04, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about the lack of lasting coverage. But I disagree about this is "routine". Death is on your list. Murder after violent abduction is not. To anyone who thinks this is "routine" please read about the event and consider the meaning of the word "routine". CT55555 (talk) 21:06, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would argue that murder is rarely ever committed gracefully. I believe the series of events here is routine for murders, not routine in general. Any unusual circumstances? Exceptional victim/offender relationship? Uncommonly used weapons? Is the victim notable? Are the perpetrators notable? Was the motive out of the ordinary?

The motive was money-related, nothing unheard of. Pimp/sex worker is a unfortunately common victim/offender relationship, and most people are killed by someone they know. A knife was used, as is often the case.

You might find some useful statistics and info here:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/murder

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/198117.pdf Mooonswimmer 21:39, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.